What I Doed Today,

[harry strasil]

Boy am I tired and sore. not really WWing, but just a bit to make a form of sorts.

I worked at the Brown County Ag Museum Blacksmith Shop, all day.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/ag%20museum/museumforge10.jpg

Might be of interest to some WWers, The Joinery on this Home or Shop Built forge is fantastic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/ag%20museum/agmuseumdnrforge01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/ag%20museum/agmuseumdnrforge02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/ag%20museum/agmuseumdnrforge03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/ag%20museum/agmuseumdnrforge04.jpg

[Joe Petersen]

Very nice forge! I just wish I had room for one that size.

[David Keller NC]

OK, so for the ignorant among us (count me in on that one), what are the openings on the side of the brick forge for (bread ovens? tempering?), and what's the wooden contraption - a blower?

[harry strasil]

The Big Arched opening is the cleanout under the forge pot, the small opening near the floor on the right is access to the green coal storage with a small shovel. The alcove at the left, there is one on the other side too, is for flux container storage.

[Steve Clardy]

Looks great Harry ;)

[harry strasil]

the wooden contraption in the top is a form to lay bricks up to, the flue that goes thru the wall goes there, its not done yet. so some plywood scraps had to suffice to get the proper opening.

[David Keller NC]

the wooden contraption in the top is a form to lay bricks up to, the flue that goes thru the wall goes there, its not done yet. so some plywood scraps had to suffice to get the proper opening.

Actually, my question was what the wooden (antique) contraption was in the photos that follow the brick forge (the thing with the hand crank).

And - what's meant by "green coal" - Is the coal converted to coke before being used, or is it a drying-out sort of thing?

[harry strasil]

The mostly wood thing is a forge someone made David, it eventually got donated to the museum, evidently someone was quite a craftsmen to make the complet forge. I have turned it to see if it puts out much air, to my surprise it works quite well. There is a lot of that in olden times, a commercial forge was expensive, same with WW tools etc, so the craftsmen used what was at hand and some ingenuity to make something he could use. I do it all the time in my shops.

Green Coal is coal as it comes from the mine. It usually has varying amounts of impurities in it. and it is banked around a working fire to burn out the impurities and the end result is COKE, which also burns hotter and is easier to start on fire.

[Scott Mark]

Can a person even buy raw coal, much less green coal, today? I'm more curious than serious. I'm guessing the government has put up all kinds of requirements to get a license to buy the stuff because burning it raw is probably not the best thing for the environment.

[harry strasil]

Blacksmithing Coal, (Pocohantis) is easily obtained throughout the US. It comes in 50# bags and also in 2500# bulk bags.

Blacksmithing coal has to be high quality with few impurities especially sulfur which combines with the iron and steel at elevated temperatures and more or less ruins it for all practical purpose. Blacksmith Coal burns relatively clean except at first if starting a fire with green coal. Most Smiths soak the green coal in water and keep it around the fire letting the heat burn out the impurities in the form of flame). (Coal Smoke is basically unburned gases that will burn in the form of a flame). The wet coal is also acts as a form of conservation, by limiting the size of the fire, if left to burn uncontrolled the whole pile of coal on top and around the fire would burn up, and by restricting the size of the fire it takes less forced air to achieve and maintain a really hot central fire. Like I stated before, green coal with the impurities burned off is called Coke, and it is much lighter in weight than green coal and has a really dull black appearance (its basically pure carbon), while green coal is a shiny black color usually. Green coal does not generate very much heat, Coke is what makes the fire hot (2000 degrees and up).

Most smithing coal is thought of or referred to in terms of the impurities present, and the BTU per pound it generates while burning. Most smithing coal is in the 14,000 to 26,000 BTU's per pound range.

On the other hand the coal used in power plants is usually in the 8,000 BTU's per pound and below catagory as its mostly surface coal, (open pit mined relatively close to the earths surface). Its very dirty coal and unfit for smithing as it will barely get iron red let alone reach the orange, yellow or white heat stages. Power plants utilize this coal because it is realatively cheap to mine and easy toget to large deposits of it. It doesn't burn well in the coal fired generating plants, so they grind it up into a fine powder and blow it into the large boilers mixing it with propane or natural gas to get it to burn.

One of the curious facts sbout Coal that the Nuclear Power Plant Protesters refuse to admit, is that in all things from the earth there is a certain amount of radioactivity present, and Coal Fired Plants release a tremendous amount of this radioactiviy into the atmosphere during the burning of the coal and exhausting the excess heat and smoke via the tall smoke stack. The coal fired plants are required to use scrubbers to remove the FLY ASH (ashes) before the smoke is released into the air. But they cannot and do not scrub the residue of radioactivity.

At a surplus place many years ago I purchased a couple of gallons of green marbles, there were many large cardboard barrels of these setting around the place. These so called glass marbles were an early form of scrubber used in power plants. They were confined in a large container with and enough water was kept running over them to keep them wet. The residue (smoke) from the boiler was forced thru this scrubber and the FLY ASH and other solids stuck to the wet marbles and was flushed into a container where the FLY ASH was let settle out to the bottom and then safely disposed of. If you go by a Coal Fired Plant and see smoke coming out the top, its not really smoke, just the little bit of heat escaping from the stack and reacting with the water vapor and temperature of the outside air.

Sorry for the long winded reply!

Oh yes, did you know wood doesn't burn, it gives off gases that burn starting at about 350 degrees, (Fire Service information).

[Alan DuBoff]

One of the curious facts sbout Coal that the Nuclear Power Plant Protesters refuse to admit, is that in all things from the earth there is a certain amount of radioactivity present, and Coal Fired Plants release a tremendous amount of this radioactiviy into the atmosphere during the burning of the coal and exhausting the excess heat and smoke via the tall smoke stack. The coal fired plants are required to use scrubbers to remove the FLY ASH (ashes) before the smoke is released into the air. But they cannot and do not scrub the residue of radioactivity.
OTOH, many smiths that use coal refuse to accept the fact that coal in itself is one of the most filthy and unhealthy types of fuel, not only for the environment but for their own well being. Even many that accept those conditions continue to use it. The damage from long term exposure to coal is well documented and there is a wide gamut of diseases and health risks associated with it. I do not know one smith who uses it on a daily basis that doesn't cough and spit up coal soot, or blow it out their nose, pick it out of their ears, or find it under their finger nails for hours after using it, even a day later.

Some smiths, such as Ron Reil, have suffered nervous conditions from long term use, and Ron doesn't use coal hardly, if at all, any more. He will only use it if he has a piece to forge that is too big to fit in his gas forges, which is rare.

With that said, it is sure good fuel to forge with. I have used it and like it myself. But we should not overlook the dangers of using this traditional fuel. The romance of smelling the coals, and more importantly the state one's mind is put in by watching the coals burn, is a seductive lure. Still, this should not over shadow the dangers of coal itself. Caveat emptor, as they say...I admit to the lure, and I like forging with coal, as many other smiths do, but it's something to be careful with for those using it long term. :(

I find hardwood lump charcoal to be a fair alternative, and much less dangerous for our health.

[David Keller NC]

So if you're a newbie to blacksmithing like me, would you recommend using anthracite coal, or charcoal? I've been told that charcoal is a bit nicer to deal with, though a lot more expensive. Since I'm only interested in building a little bitty forge to hammer out some hinges and other things, my thought is to use the "brake drum method" where a junked truck brake drum is the fire pit, with an electric powered blower attached.

[Alan DuBoff]

So if you're a newbie to blacksmithing like me, would you recommend using anthracite coal, or charcoal? I've been told that charcoal is a bit nicer to deal with, though a lot more expensive. Since I'm only interested in building a little bitty forge to hammer out some hinges and other things, my thought is to use the "brake drum method" where a junked truck brake drum is the fire pit, with an electric powered blower attached.
David,

I'm sure that Harry will have an answer for you, and he's been forging longer than me, but this is my $0.02.

For someone that is not forging all the time, coal is no problem, and I will be the first to admit that it's a wonderful fuel to forge with, as noted above also. I believe that like anything, it helps to educate yourself and practice safe crafting. It is true that charcoal will use more fuel, but there is also a wide range of charcoal and mesquite is known for a lot of forge flies (sparks) while you forge. I keep hardwood lump on hand, as I use it in my smoker, so I can use it in a pinch.

Charcoal typically requires a slightly deeper firepot, I've been told that 4"-5" is a decent amount for charcoal. My portable forge has a shallower firepot, so I build up the sides around the firepot with bricks, it's not ideal, but works when I want to use it.

The other cleaner option is a propane forge (http://www.abana.org/ronreil/design1.shtml), which some traditional smiths frown on, and one thing I don't like about it, is that it's like working inside of a jet engine, the venturi burners make a lot of noise.

If you only want to forge occasionally, the brake drum forge with coal is perfectly fine, you will see quickly how filthy it is. But if you only forge occasionally there is little risk, IMO. When you light it, the impurities bellow off in clouds of green smoke, but once it's lit it burns nicely...the problem as you tend the forge, you will be adding more unburned coal to the fire and it will burn the impurities off when it lights, so it's an evolving process.

My suggestion is to seek out the local ABANA chapter in your state (http://www.ncabana.org/), and talk to other smiths, many will offer to help you and/or might even have some equipment they will sell you on the cheap, most like to help others. They can also teach you how to forge. I've found this to work well for me.

[harry strasil]

it takes a lot of charcoal to equal a small amount of coal, In Thailand I used upwards of the equivalent of 2 55 gallon drums a day for forging, I could have gotten by with about 75 lbs of good coal.

You will get lots of fleas with charcoal, (little hot glowing embers floating in the air, that set things on fire and go down your neck.) You can't use briquets, you have to use natural charcoal.

A JUNK TRUCK BRAKE DRUM, Jeez that would be the eqrivalent of massive RR shop forge.

about 4 or 5 inch in diameter would be a good size firepot for small things. A normal coal forge fire pot is only about 9 by 5 inches and about 5 to 7 inches deep. But you can use a side blown forge like the one in this post.

Simple and no firepot needed, just a 1 inch pipe sticking in the side of the coal pile and air forced in.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/smithing/sideblown2.jpg

and it only takes about 2 ounces of pressure to make a coal forge work well.

Oh yeah, if you have a decent side draft flue, you will not get any smoke in your shop or get black boogers. Look at this picture and notice that all the smoke and even the fire is drawn into the side draft flue thru the natural draw created by heat rising.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/smithing/sbf017.jpg

[Mike Cutler]

Harry

You're into some totally cool stuff.:cool:
I've gotta make my way to Nebraska someday.;)


Scott Mark

"Can a person even buy raw coal, much less green coal, today? I'm more curious than serious. I'm guessing the government has put up all kinds of requirements to get a license to buy the stuff because burning it raw is probably not the best thing for the environment.
Today 12:40 PM"

Scott
Yes you can buy coal. no liscense required, but a pickup truck sure does help. Here in Ct it sold by the ton and by the 50 lb sack( Anthracite). People still do heat their homes with it.
A properly burning coal fired furnace is very hard to beat for a source of winter heat. Lot of bang for the buck, and they're not as dirty as people are led to believe.;) There are actually more government and EPA restrictions on a wood stove than a coal furnace.

[David Keller NC]

Alan/Harry - Thanks for the advice. The brake drum idea came from the 'net, and it was specifically designed for coal, with the idea that the coal around the outside of the pot doesn't burn, but gets "cooked" into coke as it's gradually moved toward the center fire.

I may have to use charcoal (I have a ready source of good, white oak/hickory/maple charcoal), because I live in the city and the neighbors would probably be immediately alarmed by "green smoke" ;-)

And - this will be done outside. I won't be doing it all that frequently, so I'll just wait for a nice Saturday. Should make the coal/charcoal dust problem a non-problem.

[harry strasil]

Monday, I used muratic acid on the brick forge to clean up some of the mess.

Today Tuesday, I picked up the donated hearth plate and the coal bin plate and got them installed.

The tuyere bolted in place and a few bricks set in on the hearth plate, the fire bowl is to the left awaiting placement.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/ag%20museum/forge92308001.jpg


The Fire Bowl mudded in place using 1/3 crushed dry horse apples and 2/3 field clay. And brick dust sprinkeled over the fill clay.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/ag%20museum/forge92308002.jpg

A wet burlap sack laid over the fresh wet clay to prevent it from drying to quick.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/ag%20museum/forge92308003.jpg

[jeremy levine]

Are the red bricks, refractory brick or just plain old brick ?

[harry strasil]

the red bricks are soft bricks, often referred to as chimney brick, The dark bricks are hard bricks with 3 holes in them, they won't take the heat and abuse.

[David Keller NC]

Larry - OK, another few dumb newbie questions - What's the fire bowl and (tuyere?) made of? Cast iron? Fired Clay?

And what're dry horse apples (manure?). I've heard of using dried cow manure as a bonding agent in a clay mixture used in bronze investment casting, but in that instance the mold is destroyed for every piece, so durability isn't an issue.

[harry strasil]

Cast Iron, David.
The fibers in horse manure have a tendency to hold the clay together, much like reinforcing rod in concrete. Its a really old method used by early smiths.

For those who would like to view a slide show of the forge build.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/museum%20forge%20construction/?action=view&current=3b55e9da.pbw

I got it done yesterday 10/02/08 except for a few minor details.

[Kevin L. Pauba]

Really nice forge, harry. Living in Omaha, it would be interesting to visit your area and see it in action. Is the forge at the Plainsman Museum in Aurora?

[harry strasil]

Kevin, its 15 miles south of Nebraska in Brown County at Hiawatha, Ks

[Thom Sturgill]

Harry - as a side note to your comment about radioactivity. I worked on the construction of a nuke plant that the owner had originally scheduled for four plants. After building two, they decided to try to use the remaining area to build coal burning plants. The NRC quickly nixed that plan because the radioactivity level of the coal was much higher than the nuclear monitoring would allow.:eek:

[David Keller NC]

Harry/others - Thanks for the advice on blacksmithing. I decided it would benefit me to read a bit before throwing together equipment, so I bought "The Backyard Blacksmith" and "Professional Smithing". I figured the $30 investment in these books is likely to save me way more than that in mistakes...