Hand-cut dovetails - my first results

[Al Navas]

The following is from the latest entry on my blog (http://sandal-woodsblog.com/2008/09/19/hand-cut-dovetails-my-first-results/):

This might not seem like a big deal to many of you. But to me, it is huge! The following photos show the first hand-cut dovetails I have ever produced:
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http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/hand-cut-dts-tails-213x300.png (http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/hand-cut-dts-tails.png)





http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/hand-cut-dts-profile-247x300.png (http://sandal-woodsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/hand-cut-dts-profile.png)


Recently I started working, and practicing, to be able to cut to a line. Although I have improved in this area, I still:

Must refine how close to the line I saw, and
Be careful not to overshoot the dovetail depth, or it shows immediately.

My conclusion: I need practice, then some more practice, followed by additional practice. As a result, I will be making little boxes, in preparation for small drawers for the Krenov-inspired cabinet. And *now* you know the rest of the story.


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[Ron Brese]

Al is that a Kerf Kadet marking knife in the fore ground? I've been thinking about buying one of those from Czeck Edge, how did it work for you? If those are your first hand cut dovetails it won't be long before they're perfectly tight.

Ron Brese

[Michael Faurot]

The following photos show the first hand-cut dovetails I have ever produced:


Congrats! Those look pretty good and better than the first ones I did. Is that Sycamore in those pictures?



My conclusion:I need practice, then some more practice, followed by additional practice. As a result, I will be making little boxes . . .


That's exactly the way I practiced as well, by making small boxes. Except for the first time or two, I hate the notion of making something useless in the name of practice. Instead, I'd rather make a really ugly box and just keep it in the shop it to hold screws or nails, than to stick two pieces of wood together at 90 degrees with a dovetail and then just throw it away. I think it also adds an extra degree of motivation to try and do things right when you're trying to make something useful, even though it's in the name of practice.

[Al Navas]

Al is that a Kerf Kadet marking knife in the fore ground? I've been thinking about buying one of those from Czeck Edge, how did it work for you? If those are your first hand cut dovetails it won't be long before they're perfectly tight.

Ron,

That IS the Kerf Kadet. It worked great on this practice joint, as I could never have gotten the Fat Boy in the small opening for the middle pin. The Kerf Kadet can get into the tightest of spaces. Making these was a true first for me - I recently practiced with the saw learning to cut to a line for while; you can read some of my experience here (http://sandal-woodsblog.com/2008/09/14/cutstone-the-sawcut/).




Congrats! Those look pretty good and better than the first ones I did. Is that Sycamore in those pictures?...
Michael,

That is quarter sawn sycamore - great catch!




... Except for the first time or two, I hate the notion of making something useless in the name of practice... I think it also adds an extra degree of motivation to try and do things right when you're trying to make something useful, even though it's in the name of practice.
Totally agree, Michael.

I love making boxes on the Leigh D4 jig, but this is a brand-new experience for me. As I mentioned in my blog entry, there is a method in my madness to do this, as I must be able to make very small drawers for a Krenov-inspired cabinet. I believe that doing it using hand tools is the best way.

Thank you for your words of encouragement!


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[Ben Fleis]

Recently I started working, and practicing, to be able to cut to a line. Although I have improved in this area, I still:

Must refine how close to the line I saw, and
Be careful not to overshoot the dovetail depth, or it shows immediately.

My conclusion: I need practice, then some more practice, followed by additional practice. As a result, I will be making little boxes, in preparation for small drawers for the Krenov-inspired cabinet. And *now* you know the rest of the story.


Al, you've got it right. Practice, practice and more practice. I am currently a student at http://woodschool.org/9mo.html, where I have also been practicing dovetails this week. I will pass on the best advice we've been given: go right at it. In other words, cut on your lines, such that you saw kerf splits the middle of your pencil line. It takes a lot of practice to get comfortable hitting and keeping your line, but you spent a lot less time paring and perfecting when you do.

As far as overcutting your depth marks, it's just practice and care. Also, getting an adjustable mirror to put behind your piece is excellent, so that you can easily see the lines at front and back without moving.

Keep it up, and after another 100 of them you'll be giving lessons ;-)

-b

[Jim Becker]

They look great, Al.

One thing I have learned from the (minimum) number of hand-cut dovetails I've done is to not sweat the little imperfections. There are little tricks to make them disappear... ;) What's more important is to get somewhat consistent and that takes practice. Just cutting close to the line is something you have to practice and do and do and do so that your hand and the saw become very comfortable with each other!

[Al Navas]

Ben,

Cool! I bet you have had a great week learning to cut the dovetails! Thanks for the great advice - I will mill enough lumber to practice on those 100 you suggest :D . I think you are pretty close to right, though, and I now know what it takes - PRACTICE!

Will you be posting anything related to the class you have been attending? If you had not thought about doing it, please share with us your experience.





They look great, Al.

One thing I have learned from the (minimum) number of hand-cut dovetails I've done is to not sweat the little imperfections. There are little tricks to make them disappear... ;) What's more important is to get somewhat consistent and that takes practice. Just cutting close to the line is something you have to practice and do and do and do so that your hand and the saw become very comfortable with each other!


Jim,

Thanks for your words of encouragement! As Ben suggested, maybe 100 more will be sufficient to get this whole thing just about right. Although I am not sleeping with my saw, I am considering it... :)

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[Joe Cunningham]

They look good Al. Ugly dovetails still hold a joint better than just about anything else.

I do practice boxes about once a week (I mostly use hand tools), and mine are slowly getting better. I've found half-blind are easier for me to get looking nice.

[Bill Moser]

Al - check out Ian Kirby's book, "The Complete Dovetail", I read a lot before I do anything, and this was the book that did it for me. With some practice beforehand, I was able to cut through and half blinds with no noticeable (to me) gaps in maple, cherry and red oak. I was going to post a pic of my half-blinds on a shaker end table I made, but my camera can't handle the close-up, so you'll just have to take my word for it;)
-bill

[Al Navas]

They look great, Al...What's more important is to get somewhat consistent and that takes practice. Just cutting close to the line is something you have to practice and do and do and do so that your hand and the saw become very comfortable with each other!

Jim,

Thanks! You are very kind!!!Time, and practice, practice, practice...




They look good Al. Ugly dovetails still hold a joint better than just about anything else.

I do practice boxes about once a week (I mostly use hand tools), and mine are slowly getting better. I've found half-blind are easier for me to get looking nice.

Joe,

I have not even thought about practicing half-blind, but certainly will once I have the through variety down pat. And I will keep practicing while making boxes, as I love boxes. Hard to beat, and a hard-to-replace habit.





Al - check out Ian Kirby's book, "The Complete Dovetail",... I was going to post a pic of my half-blinds on a shaker end table I made, but my camera can't handle the close-up, so you'll just have to take my word for it;)
-bill


Thanks for the tip about Kirby's book, Bill. On the photos: Please, post them anyway, as the close-up may not be required if you have high enough resolution - just crop the image, and the box should show fine.


My thanks to all. And my hat's off to you, for your perseverance to be able cut dovetails using only hand tools. I hope I will reach that level soon.


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[Bill Moser]

Well, I uploaded the pics of the drawer, one of the front, and one of the back. They're really fuzzy, so I don't know if they will do justice. I actually went to Target today to find a digital camera for cheap that could handle close-ups for another purpose, but couldn't find one in the under $150 bracket. So. fuzzy is all i can deliver right now. The point is this, though, with the help if Mr. Kirby, I was able to dimension lumber to the precision needed to cut the joints, and his thoughts and techniques on that were what made it a reality for me. I still, four years after making it, pull out this drawer and am amazed that I could pull it off. You can, too.

[Al Navas]

Well, I uploaded the pics of the drawer, one of the front, and one of the back. They're really fuzzy, so I don't know if they will do justice... still, four years after making it, pull out this drawer and am amazed that I could pull it off. You can, too.


Thanks for posting the photos, Bill! Those dovetails ARE gorgeous!!! The contrast truly makes them stand out, too.

You have given me a target to aim at - NOT the one where you shopped today... :D And now I will get back to work on these, as time permits.


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[Mark Singer]

Al excellent work! It only improves with practice and these are already very good!

[Al Navas]

Thanks for such a wonderful compliment, Mark!

I will be getting in a lot more practice, as the small drawers I plan for the Krenov-inspired cabinet will require the best I can muster.


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[Mark Singer]

Thanks for such a wonderful compliment, Mark!

I will be getting in a lot more practice, as the small drawers I plan for the Krenov-inspired cabinet will require the best I can muster.


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Al,
I made a couple of Krenov cabinets as a tutorial

[Mark Singer]

Al,
I made a couple of Krenov cabinets as a tutorial

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=46602&highlight=bath+cabinet

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/mSinger/z_art/bathCabinet/bathCab1.asp

[Al Navas]

Mark,

Wonderful, gorgeous Krenov-inspired cabinet you made!!! It is truly an inspiration.

Mine is only about 21 inches wide, with three small drawers on the bottom of the cabinet. As a result, the drawers will be quite small. Thus, learning to hand-cut dovetails. I am starting to feel a little more comfortable about this new experience, which is quite daunting at first. But you and so many others provide so much moral support - thanks!


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[Mark Singer]

Al,
Half blinds ire easier with practice. That would be a nice detail with te new cabinet

[Al Navas]

Mark,

Ultimately *that* is my objective, as I believe the drawers should have half-blind DTs for best looks. I have never cut HBs, so that will be my next chapter. Hopefully, by then I will be able to saw to a line a whole lot better, without having to do too much paring with the chisels. I also plan to incorporate very narrow pins in the tiny drawers; but first, practice, practice, prac...


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[Jim Becker]

Al, if you're using false fronts for the drawers, you can use through dovetails and essentially end up with a very similar look, minus the small shoulder that you'd see in a HB. The dovetails at the back of the box have often been through dovetails, too.

Interestingly, I just had a visit from Zahid and we were talking extensively about hand cutting dovetails and the like.

[Mark Singer]

Mark,

Ultimately *that* is my objective, as I believe the drawers should have half-blind DTs for best looks. I have never cut HBs, so that will be my next chapter. Hopefully, by then I will be able to saw to a line a whole lot better, without having to do too much paring with the chisels. I also plan to incorporate very narrow pins in the tiny drawers; but first, practice, practice, prac...


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With half blinds the sawing is only partial, at an angle and then the rest is chiseled. The easy aspect is that there is only one plane or surface that shows. You can pare at a slight angle to leave a tight face at the surface.

[Al Navas]

With half blinds the sawing is only partial, at an angle and then the rest is chiseled. The easy aspect is that there is only one plane or surface that shows. You can pare at a slight angle to leave a tight face at the surface.

Mark,

GREAT tip! I will remember it when I start practice on the half-blind DTs. Thanks again.


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[mike holden]

Nice Job!

These are a great start, you will only get better.

You will also find that they look even better after glueing and cleanup.

Mike

[Al Navas]

mike,

Thanks! I definitely will clean up and glue the pieces, once I have the four sides cut and chiseled, to make my first little hand-cut DT box. I had to do a little carpentry work to re-size a rustic kitchen table, to make sure I stay on LOML's good side...:cool:


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[Ben Fleis]

Ben,
Cool! I bet you have had a great week learning to cut the dovetails! Thanks for the great advice - I will mill enough lumber to practice on those 100 you suggest :D . I think you are pretty close to right, though, and I now know what it takes - PRACTICE!

Will you be posting anything related to the class you have been attending? If you had not thought about doing it, please share with us your experience.


Al,

I have a small blog of my experiences so far. It's not day to day, but more of a thought to thought rambling, but it might be of interest to you:

http://woodenforms.blogspot.com/

If you have specific questions about the school, please feel free to PM me. So far I've been thoroughly impressed with everybody here, and wouldn't hesitate for even a moment to suggest coming out here. Peter Korn is recruiting top talent for all of his classes, and it shows in the smiling faces, and the resulting work.

-b

[Al Navas]

Thanks, Ben!

I will be peeking at your cool blog from time to time; I enjoyed reading your entries to date. I wish you well in the upcoming months, as it seems be quite an intensive and worthwhile undertaking.



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