What to charge?

[Steve Schlumpf]

My wife took her candy dish (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=91809) to work last week and managed to show it to quite a few folks (good for her!) before getting it filled with candy and placed on her desk. She has a couple of guys who work in her building want to either order a like item or buy the candy dish that she has, which she refuses to do even though I told her she could keep whatever she sold it for. So, having done NO shows or any sales type events – I am asking what would be a fair and realistic price for a similar turning? I know the basic drill of: it all depends on what the market will bear and what similar items go for in your area… (I’ve never seen anything like this here or anywhere) but, what would be a reasonable bottom end price?

I have no desire to gouge anyone but I also don’t want to just give it away. I look at this as another way to get my turnings out into the public and hopefully start to build a local reputation.

Appreciate any and all advice!

[Colin MacDiarmid]

I read somewhere on another forum, that a calculated way to do it albeit a bit rough, to family and friends 3 times the purchase price of the timber, at craft fairs etc 4 to 5 times the purchase price of the timber and to gallery's 6 to 7 times the price of the timber, not sure if the theory works as I have never tried it

[Curt Fuller]

First off, you must have an entirely different arrangement with your wife when it comes to money than I have with mine. I would never be able to tell my wife she could keep the money. Instead I would ask her what happened to the money from the candy dish and she'd say "what money?".;)
For something as novel as I thought your candy dish was, with the clear lid, I think it would be worth a little more than just a normal wood turning. I guess you could have her just ask them what they would give for it. Or you could tell her to tell them that Steve usually sells these for 80-90 bucks depending on the wood. But for you, he'd give you a deal. But both of those ideas makes you sound like a used car salesman (I apologize in advance if any of you are used car salesman). So you can see that I have the same problem with trying to determine what is a good number that satisfies both the "what's a good price?" and the "what will someone pay for this?" question. But I would think that $60 seems fair for the amount of work and ingenuity that went into the dish. Unless your wife works on Rodeo Drive or 5th Avenue and then of course the price would be much higher.

I have no doubt in my mind that this didn't help you at all!:cool:

[Stan Cook]

How long would it take to make another like it and how much is your time worth? Then add materials cost plus any overhead.

Whatever you do, don't sell yourself short. Five years from now, they (and all of their friends/relatives that they show) will expect to pay similar prices for similar items.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Steve I sold one like that with a wood lid and just about the same size. Right or wrong I figured it this way. The blank cost me $15 (with shipping) so added $5 and I figured $20 per hour (took 1 1/2 hrs) plus $5 for finish/supplies equals $55. I would not take less than that. In our neck of the woods I can't sell things like they can elsewhere as we are a farming community and times are tough right now with no moisture. Stan is right about not selling to them cheaply. I sold a bowl for $20 to a friend that I should have gotten $40 for and now I have 5 of their friends that want one at the same price. Only my immediate family gets freebies and discounts.

[Scott Hubl]

I'm in the suburbs near Chicago.

Here i'd go at least $85.00 for those Steve.

Just make them very well no skipping sandpaper grits leaving a super finish you can hold your head up high when you say your price.

Make each one a little diffent so your not just duplicating them for a group at the same place who will all look at each others.

Where does your Wife work, not the exact place, but in general?

If it's an office type setting where most of those workers are college educated, then they can afford to pay more than say if it were a group of workers at walmart who liked and wanted one.

Keep that in mind.

[Gary Max]

If I was selling them---$60.00 to $75.00---I would mix the woods up making each one different----maybe even some smoked or colored plexi----make about 4 of them---gives folks something to pick from.
Making money is not a bad thing----you can spend it on tools:D

[robert hainstock]

What does it cost in time and materials plus and hourly rate, and artistic considerations. You probably won;t want to do it, but you might see what Norm is doing or would do on a piece like that. Bargin hunters think you should "give" them one too". :)
Bob

[Tom Keen]

Steve:

If I was selling this in a gallery or good shop no less than $100.

Following the $10 rule.. $70 for the pot the rest for the lid and finish..

I cant tell you the number of times Ive been told not to underprice my work. Its really true. I dont value the stuff I make the way other folks do (I see to much of it and see all the things I could have done better)..nor do I have the type of disposable income that other people do. I just dont understand how other people spend their money, so I followed the advise of others and they were right.

And calling it a "candy dish" is sorta making it sound like something trivial.. which it isnt.. You can chunk out a candy dish in about 30 mins.. this little covered enclosed form is on the line between craft and art.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Steve, I am guessing you have an idea of my opinions from the recent pricing questions leading up to my show. But I have heard this from galleries I have visited post show.

"If you don't value it, neither will potential customers."

Obviously price varies with quality, but assuming it's the tops in feel and finish, then I would say $75 is a rock bottom minimum, $95 seems more like it. If the wood is figured/special, then go up a bit.

Another thing, if you make some sales you might ask the customers if you can make the walls a hair thicker, cuz if it's actually gonna have hands on it all the time it's likely to get knocked off the edge of a desk at some point.

Hutch

[Nathan Hawkes]

I'm just starting to sell my pieces as well, and I have to agree with people that are saying DON'T SELL CHEAP! I would think $75minimum is fair, more in a gallery, but you'd have to figure a commission fee. Most places here seem to be 30-40% commission. I think it wouldn't be fair to your skill to sell it for less than $75. I have to agree completely with the comments about selling too cheaply. I sold a set of 5 salad bowls and a 12" main bowl for $200; too cheap and told the person not to tell anyone, that it was a special deal b/c it took me a LOT longer than I thought it would to get around to it b/c of classes & work. It was supposed to be 250 and only 4 bowls. I hope that it doesn't bite me later.

[Richard Madison]

Agree with Matt. Range of 80 to 128 depending upon the market. It's a very nice piece, but doubt if most folks would pay more than 100. All the various formulae are helpful to get in the right ballpark, and the bottom is still whether the customer will see that $ value in that (or any) piece. If you have a local artist friend (like we always say), ask him/her if xx$ would be a fair selling price.

And just wait until you sell 4 or 5 pieces. You are going to feel GREAT.

Edit: When you are represented by a gallery, NEVER undercut their prices when selling out of your shop. It's tempting, since you can discount 20% and still make more money, but is really bad form.

[ROY DICK]

I agree with what Tom said. That is way too nice to be called a candy dish.

[Keith Burns]

Depends on whether you want it to be a candy dish or you want it to be art. For a candy dish I would say in the $50 to $75 range. For art I would say $150 minimum. Depends on where you want to try to go with your turning. If you go to a gallery and only charge them $50 for it they probably won't take it. Unfortunately I think if you are wanting to be known as an artist you have to price high. I did not mean this to sound harsh. Bottom line is you have to go with what your heart tells you.

[Reed Gray]

Steve, my take on this... The bottom bowl doesn't have a lot of character or color, but the shape is more difficult to do with the calabash style so, $50 or so for the bowl. Also, the plain blond color of the maple doesn't sell well for me. The lid would be an extra $20 or so. If you used figured wood for the bottom, then $60 to $100 for the bottom and the finial and lid extra. I would have trouble selling one like that, even with figured wood for more than $100. But who knows, it could be a piece that you put in your booth, and it sells to the first person who walks in. It is different, and has a nice shape.
robo hippy

[Colin MacDiarmid]

I wonder how far out the calculus I've said is, dependant on the price off the timber, compared to what the other members are quoting, would be nice to know

[Joe Pfeifer]

I've done about 6 craft shows and have seen and sold things for too little. I now use a formula I saw on a pen turning forum that I changed a little, and I feel it gives me a fair price and takes some of the guessing out of pricing.

(Cost of materials X 2) + (hourly wage x time) + operating cost= sale price

So figuring if the materials cost $10 (OR would cost that if you didn't pay for it) and you "pay" yourself $30/ hr. and it took 1.5 hours and you add an operating cost (electricity, wear and tear, tool usage, sand paper, finish, etc.) of $1.00, this is what you get-

$20 + $45 + $1= $66, but round it up to a $5 or $0, so $70

It's not fool proof, but if you take into account local wages and material costs when figuring the sale price, it can adjust the prices to your market.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Thanks everyone for all your input! I do appreciate it!

Joe - Welcome to the Creek! Hope to be seeing some of your work real soon!

The struggle I've faced with pricing is the standard one: is it craft or art? What direction(s) do I want to take my turnings? Do I really need the sale or can I afford to set it higher and see if they balk?

I'll let you all know how it works out! Thanks again!

[Reed Gray]

One formula I heard once was materials times 4, which at times seems too low, and at other times too high. Figuring by the hour is difficult. A bowl that I could have an hour total into, 8 years ago would have taken me 2 to 3 hours, or more. If a bunch of people are coming to look at your stuff, and say "Your prices are SO reasonable" then you know you aren't charging enough. I get this a lot from people who are visiting from the east coast. I do try to leave some room for dickering. There is no exact science. Just like turning, you have to see what works best for you.
robo hippy

[Dennis Peacock]

I think you should sell it for about $999.99. :)

Send me a 10% pricing/marketing fee...and we'll be good to go. :D :p :p

Honestly? I'd say $75 to $100. It has to be worth your time, materials, machinery, tooling, power, shop space, and skill ya know. ;)

[Steve Schlumpf]

Dennis - obviously I need a manager and you are it! Send me your address and I'll send you everything I have ever turned - we'll get rich!

[Barry Stratton]

Another thing to think about is do you really WANT to turn more of them????

I turned and sold enough pens in AK to pay for my PM3520. I haven't turned one completely myself since..............:eek:

You know your market better than us...............I couldn't get $30 for that in this small town I live near.....but I'd wager you could get $150 for it in the Twin Cities.

It is a REALLY nice candy dish.

[Josh Holden]

I have to disagree with the idea of using a formula that relates the cost of materials (and time) to the price of the piece. It may be useful as a mechanism to figure out what you would be willing to accept, but it isn't appropriate for deciding what people should or will want to pay.

Very few things are priced according to production cost. EG, walmart, Costco, and cheap gas stations add a fixed profit margin. Not the company you want to keep, even if you are firmly on the craft side of the art-craft continuum.

Even commodities like oil and gold have prices that are completely unrelated to the cost of extraction/production.

From a purchaser's perspective, there is no knowledge of what wood costs, or how long it takes to make things. Nor do they care. All that matters is whether they want it, and if they feel like they can afford it. Price influences both, but not in obvious ways. Perceived value is much higher with a higher price.

Instead of production costs, price relative to other minor luxuries. For a piece like this, the range of a nice dinner out for two seems reasonable (the kind of dinner you have maybe 4 times a year). That's the kind of value judgment buyers will make. (here, around $120.)

Note that I am much more familiar with buying than selling -- but that might be the more relevant perspective here.

Josh

[Steve Schlumpf]

Once again I would like to thank everyone for their input as to pricing - it all helps!

I stated I would let you know what happened - so here it is.

Friday my wife took the newer 'lidded form' to work with her to show the two guys who expressed interest in purchasing the original. This is the lidded form she took with her: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=92685

I took into account everyone's input and came up with the price of $95. High for a craft item - low for a piece of art but either way designed to let me know something about my pricing. I figured that if they balked - then the price was to high.

Colleen called me about 1 hour after getting to work to let me know that she sold the piece. The price was not an issue - the buyer just stated that he wanted the turning as a Christmas present for his wife! :D Cool! :D

So, once again I want to thank everyone for taking the time and explaining their method of determining price. I do appreciate it!

Josh - while your method may be a totally different approach to determining price - it is also one I can relate to! To me - it makes sense to consider the buyer and what that buyer would perchieve as a reasonable value. That actually has more to do with price than anything else! Thanks!

[Scott Lux]

Steve,
Congrats on the sale. I don't know that I'd have nerve enough to ask that, but then I couldn't make one that nice.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Steve, the outcome of the dish is more than the combination of some wood and time.
This is an artistic expression in material with a hard learned combination of skill and experience.
It is not a copied piece in a series of "The same kind", but a truly "One of a kind piece".
Now if you "need the money" I'd say $85.-- min, otherwise I would say something like from $135.-- to $185.-- would be my asking price.
It doesn't hurt to keep it, or like my Dad would say "it doesn't eat bread". ;-))