Going crazy on bench vises

[Douglas Brummett]

Is it just my imagination or are all these vises the same other than price???

Harbor Freight ($59):
9in x 10 5/16 open
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94386

ShopFox ($59):
9in x 10 1/4 open
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Quick-Release-Vise-9-Jaw/G9851

Anant ($114):
9in x 12 3/4 open
http://www.amazon.com/Anant-Inch-Quick-Release-Bench/dp/B000JRBLY8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1221770420&sr=1-2

LV ($139):
9in x 13 open
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49980&cat=1,41659

Rockler ($129):
9in x 13 open
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17246&cookietest=1

Groz ($99):
9in x 13 open
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20593

LV seems like the go-to vise for good quality. It is also the only one mentioned above that even in pictures looks like good fit and finish.

Anant has gotten some decent feedback here on the forum, but is held somewhat lesser in quality than the Record it gets it's lineage from. The shopfox and HF appear to be direct copies of this vise at half the cost. Usually that big of a price differential indicates a drop in quality. My recent experience with import tools pretty much pits them all on the same level though. Looking at the web pages they all stack up to be about the same. Open spread is really the only difference other than price. I feel like I am taking crazy pills. I am scrutinizing vises that probably all came from the same castings. I haven't even mentioned the others, the ones that are a second casting type but all appear the same as well.

Has it always been this way and I have just been blissfully ignorant?

I have been getting by on a set of inexpensive clamp on HF woodworker vises. They rack and finish quality is poor. For the price I can't complain. I am putting together a more functional workbench and want to also go with a bigger vise setup. I think I am just going to grab the HF and go with it. This is just going to be a 2x4 laminate jobber, so keeping cost down is paramount. Love the LV, but that will be for another bench.

[Tristan Raymond]

I bought the Shop Fox from Grizzly a few years ago. After a few months of light duty it started having troubles - when tightening it would pop loose, something went wrong with the quick release and it was hopping threads. Grizzly were great about it and I have a new one. I NEVER use the quick release anymore and it works fine to this day. I wouldn't advise for or against this vise, just know that it's not the best quality. On my next bench I'll have a non-quick release vise and I'll gladly pay more for better quality.

[Jason Beam]

I have the HF one. Want to buy it? :D

It's a POS.


My next vises will be Lee Valley quick release front vises (not the all-steel, but the wood jaw ones).

I think you have at least three different ones there. The HF and Shopfox are pretty close to identical. The Anant and Lee Valley ones look more similar to one another than any of the others, but not quite the same, I don't think.

Note the polished guide rods and the hole patterns on the cheaper ones. The QR mechanism on the HF one is absolute crap and I wouldn't bet on the Shop Fox one being any better. It could be, but I'm skeptical.

The Lee valley one seems to be using a completely different QR mechanism than any of them. That puts them well ahead of the others, in my book. I've felt a similar mechanism in their Front Vises and they win as the easiest to use vise i've ever been around.

The Anant looks like it uses a similar mechanism as the HF and SF do, but in reverse. I'm thinkin' it is its own animal, too.

[glenn bradley]

Contrary to Jason's experience I was able to "make" the HF vise quite serviceable. This required a little tweaking. Still, these are not the same vise as the others you show. I can only speak for the HF; there is a large amount of play in the guide rods. The upside is you don't have to worry about trying to get your vice jaws lined up real well. They'll flop around anyway.

I have had no problems with the QR mechanism on either of the two I have currently mounted (following some tweaks). That being said, I have two new LV vises under the bench waiting to replace them as soon as I get a chance. They are not QR.

P.s. I got the HF vises on sale for $20 each. They are definitely worth that.

[Randal Stevenson]

Contrary to Jason's experience I was able to "make" the HF vise quite serviceable. This required a little tweaking. Still, these are not the same vise as the others you show. I can only speak for the HF; there is a large amount of play in the guide rods. The upside is you don't have to worry about trying to get your vice jaws lined up real well. They'll flop around anyway.

I have had no problems with the QR mechanism on either of the two I have currently mounted (following some tweaks). That being said, I have two new LV vises under the bench waiting to replace them as soon as I get a chance. They are not QR.

P.s. I got the HF vises on sale for $20 each. They are definitely worth that.

Could you do a write up on your tweaks?

[Jason Beam]

Could you do a write up on your tweaks?

What he said!

I'd love to know if there's a way to improve on the QR mechanism of the HF one. I must confess that I had problems and made a swift judgement instead of my usual habit of digging into the thing to find/fix the problem. I may have to give the HF one a better look :)

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have one of the LV vises and it is a very good tool! I believe the other vises are made in the Pacific Rim, but the LV is made in Europe and does not display any of the manufacturing compromises I have seen in the knock-offs made in China and India.

I would go out on a limb and say it is the equal of the Record vises that were the model for all of those listed.

Tony Z.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I tend to agree with Tony's viewpoint. I would make the caveat however that I believe the Anant used the molds from the original Record vises and they are a step above the Taiwanes/Mainland China vises.

Unfortunately the rule still remains that you get what you pay for. Hopefully:rolleyes:

[glenn bradley]

Originally Posted by Randal Stevenson [/size]http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=929689#post929689)
Could you do a write up on your tweaks?


What he said!

I'd love to know if there's a way to improve on the QR mechanism of the HF one. I must confess that I had problems and made a swift judgment instead of my usual habit of digging into the thing to find/fix the problem. I may have to give the HF one a better look :)

My vises are actually built into my aprons (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=64736&d=1179287019) so I'll have to do this without pics. You guys that have them know what you're looking at. First off almost any screw or fastener was loose, tighten those. The spring path is such that it fights the QR tongue. I relocated the movable end from the screw it was hooked to and hooked it directly on the far edge of the tongue. This gave me better tension and a better path for the spring that didn't get caught on the trailing edge of the tongue.

I'll get back to the tongue but go ahead and fix the guide bar spacer plate at the tip of the screw shaft. On mine the holes that were to seat over the shoulders at the ends of the guide bars did not fit. I pulled the cotter pin and spring-washers at the end of the screw shaft, removed the spacer and filed the holes to fit properly. Now re-assemble.

Now back to the tongue. On mine, when I activated the release lever, I could overextend it to the point where the half-nut would lock the shaft again. That is; the jaws would be locked, I press the release lever a bit and the front jaw slides free. If I keep pressing the release farther, it locks up again.

The fix was to bend the tongue so that it was a bit spiral shaped along its length. The spiral should be such that it allows the release to happen with a small amount of release lever action but then . . . be shaped so as not to allow the half-nut to get re-engaged at the extreme of the release levers position. This requires a reasonable bit of fiddling as the tongue slides in and out with the jaw (of course). So you want that point of release and the point of "can't re-engage the half-nut" to exist along the full path of the jaw movement. Once "tweaked", you can press the release without any sort of finesse and thing releases properly.

Lastly I cleaned everything off with DNA so the shafts, holes and screw were dry, dry, dry. I then applied a little bit of dry Teflon spray lubricant and worked the mechanism back and forth. Both vises have been very usable for the last year-plus. Not great mind you, not elegant either but, very usable.

[Kevin Groenke]

EXCERPTED FROM PREVIOUS POST

I cannot comment about the Anant, but I have a ~8 yr old Record 52 1/2 that slips ~25% of the time I try to crank it tight. This also happened with several of the imported vises at work/school. The screws on all of these have the triangular and half-nut. IMO, this is not the best solution to this problem. I don't know if it's wear or what, but the triangular threads and matching 1/2 nut are sometimes unreliable. I've replaced most of the vises at work/school with a vice from Rockler that has an acme threaded screw, a 1/2 turn backwards disengages the nut. We've had a couple of these vises for over a year and neither has ever slipped. The Rockler vice has a nice action and good fit and finish as well. I don't recall where they're made.

-kg

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17246

[Douglas Brummett]

First off, thanks everyone for the comments. It is nice to get some fresh perspective on this (yes, there are some older threads but time is usually what makes the flaws come to the surface on tools).

I have added the Rockler and Groz vises to the original post.

Acme thread is a good point. Another good point is not really needing quick release. Unfortunately almost all of these modern vises have jumped onto that bandwagon. I dunno, I haven't ever cursed my vise or thought, "gee, if I just had a quick release on it I would be saving so much time". I have a quick release on my bicycle workstand that is a fantastic device. Of course in that instance you are holding up a 30lb bike and trying to align an oddly placed post into the clamp. It also works more like a quick grip, insert material - push clamp closed - tighten - push button to release pressure.

Glenn, good information on the HF vises. Those little tweaks are what is needed on most of the import tools to make them functional. I have a set of Groz planes and the story is similar. I can tune and tweak them into submission, but they will never equal the quality of a nicer manufacturer. On some tools I am willing to make the compromise and keep the extra money for other tools/materials.

[Ron Knapp]

I had a chance to use the Anant and a Record and the same location and I don’t remember there being a difference in the working characteristics of the Anant vs. the original Record. I guess this is a good thing for the Anant.

I own the LV medium 9x13 and it is a well made vise. The screw needs a little more care then I have experienced with other vises to keep it working smoothly. This is very minor and shouldn’t effect any purchasing decision. The actual working of the vise is not my favorite but this is entirely a personal choice.

I have used a Jorgensen vise (I don’t know the model number) that I liked very much and will probably buy in the future.

If you can find someone who has or can find a local store with any of the vises on display you may want to give it a look. There are several fairly good choices but I think your personal preference for the way they feel will have a lot to do with your choice. It will require some effort to mount the vice and it would be irritating to not like it after you have expended this effort.

[John Schreiber]

I think the design for these vises is all about the same and the castings are very close too, but quality makes a huge difference. I wouldn't buy any of those except maybe the one from Lee Valley without seeing it and holding it in my hand.

The screw thread can be regular triangular (not really a vise screw), acme (which can have any level of tolerance) or the asymmetrical buttress threads on the old Records.

I picked up some vise hardware which has no name except "made in Germany" from a Rockler store, but looking at it and using it, it reeks of Mercedes Benz type quality. No quick release, but it's a beauty to use.

[Alan DuBoff]

The Lee valley one seems to be using a completely different QR mechanism than any of them. That puts them well ahead of the others, in my book. I've felt a similar mechanism in their Front Vises and they win as the easiest to use vise i've ever been around.
Owning the LV quick release, I agree that it is a different mechanism, but I certainly wouldn't put them ahead of the others. My QR nut failed after 2 years, and kudos to Rob Lee for replacing it for me, free of charge. This is a good reason to buy LV, IMO, the customer service is top notch.

However, I am not sure I like the QR mechanism, and I feel the lever as the Record 52 1/2 used could be better, much like appears on the Anant linked to in this thread. The LV requires 2 counter clockwise revs to release, in some cases. The lever is better, quicker, and IMO a much more functional design.

All of our mileage varies, in this regard.

I have no real complaints with my LV quick release, and as I have said customer service is a good reason to buy from LV. All of their products are not better designs in all cases, and shouldn't be assumed.

[Peter Quadarella]

I actually use pipe clamps that go through the width of my bench. They are removable, cheap, and I can have them anywhere along my bench since I have holes along the length. I typically use 2 in the bench at a given time. They can apply a considerable amount of pressure. I have baltic birch pads on them. I also use a cut off pipe clamp as a tail vise with a dog in it.

I cannot take credit for any of this, as it was all from Gary Blum at blumtoolco.com.