MLCS Prices.... BEWARE!!!

[Jim Dailey]

I usually don't do "sour grapes..."

And being in business I understand prices increase....

I'll buy this ONCE.... Should I say I "Bought this once...." :o

I placed an order with MLCS on August 7th out of a catalog I had received about a week earlier for 4 sets of upcut solid carbide spiral bits (#200 - 1/4", 3/8" & 1/2" bits page 29 of their catalog). The printed price was $49.95, I was informed the price would be something like $69.95 because of a price increase... Several phone calls later they would sell the 4 sets to me @ $57.95 per

Today I receive a catalog a full 5 weeks after I placed the order & 6 weeks after the prior catalog came in the mail. It shows the $49.95 price. I called them on it.... "Oh those catalogs where printed months ago... We've had a giant price increase.... We're Sorry..." :mad:

Bate & Switch...????

Thus BEWARE of MLCS stated prices... other than the pictures the catalog doesn't mean much....

jim

[Dwain Lambrigger]

Normally I would tell you that price increases are price increases, and that is the way things to. However, if you receive a catalog after your order staing the lower price, you are absolutely right. We are talking about a small amount of money here. A small price to pay for customer service. I would push this up the ladder as much as possible. I am more likely to call this poor service, but not a bait and switch.

Good luck fighting the system...

[John Gregory]

I always check online and order online. Then I know that I have their current prices.
Due to the economic mess we are in, prices are not stable. It would be impossible to keep printed catalogs updates. I think it is best to buy online, then you get an immediate receipt of your purchase in your email.
Everything seems to be going up EXCEPT wages. Since oil and gas is used in the manufacture and transport of almost everything, I blame the oil companies.

I buy from MLCS all of the time with no issues to date.

[Brent Smith]

Hi Jim,

I'm with Dwain on this one. Poor customer service, and I'll throw in poor management. Bait and switch is a bit harsh.

Poor management because: First of all, they should not have allowed a catalogue to be sent with a price they had already denied to customers. Secondly they should have a bit more on the ball as far as knowing what their price increases will be before committing to a print run.

Poor customer service simply because knowing the next catalogue would also have them at $49 they should have bit the bullet and absorbed the loss until after that catalogue had been mailed.

[Jim Dailey]

Dwain, I did call & "pushed it..." At the time 5 weeks ago when I placed the original order it took multiple calls "just" to get the catalog price PLUS $8 per set (an extra $32) on an $350. order. This time after speaking to several people all I got was "I'm sorry..."

John, I have many times recommended MLCS as "good bang for the buck..." on this & other forums. But at those prices I will be buying Onsrud.

jim

[Dennis Montgomery]

I have bought for years from MLCS. Primarily because I was always flooded with their catalogs. Over the past year, I tried some Onsrud and Freud. What a difference! It wasn't until I got away from MLCS that I realized how bad their bits really are. In many cases there is very little. if any, price difference between cheap bits bits and good ones if you shop around.

[Jim Becker]

'Just a preemptive reminder that it's perfectly OK to post about an purchasing/pricing/quality issue with a vendor, but let's be sure that this thread does not go sour with commentary that is not relevant or is grossly disrespectful to our community.

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Courtney Brown]

I usually don't do "sour grapes..."

And being in business I understand prices increase....

I'll buy this ONCE.... Should I say I "Bought this once...." :o

I placed an order with MLCS on August 7th out of a catalog I had received about a week earlier for 4 sets of upcut solid carbide spiral bits (#200 - 1/4", 3/8" & 1/2" bits page 29 of their catalog). The printed price was $49.95, I was informed the price would be something like $69.95 because of a price increase... Several phone calls later they would sell the 4 sets to me @ $57.95 per

Today I receive a catalog a full 5 weeks after I placed the order & 6 weeks after the prior catalog came in the mail. It shows the $49.95 price. I called them on it.... "Oh those catalogs where printed months ago... We've had a giant price increase.... We're Sorry..." :mad:

Bate & Switch...????

Thus BEWARE of MLCS stated prices... other than the pictures the catalog doesn't mean much....

jim
Jim

I just went out to the MLCS web site and looked at the online catalog page #29 and the online catalog does show the $49.95. Just to see how MLCS would respond, I sent off an email to their customer service department asking about router bits and the pricing. I will post how they respond.

Courtney

[Dave Lehnert]

Maybe it's just me but If I purchased the item THEN saw they billed my card the higher price I WOULD BE MAD. But if they told me the price BEFORE I said yes to the order I feel I have nothing to complain about. I may think it's odd and may look for another choice before my next purchase but to get :mad:. No!

[Cary Falk]

Maybe it's just me but If I purchased the item THEN saw they billed my card the higher price I WOULD BE MAD. But if they told me the price BEFORE I said yes to the order I feel I have nothing to complain about. I may think it's odd and may look for another choice before my next purchase but to get :mad:. No!


It's not just you Dave. I agree.

[Brian Backner]

Check both catalogs carefully for disclaimers about price changes, etc.

If there are no such disclaimers, file a formal complaint with the postal inspectors service (they both came via US mail, right?) for mail fraud based on your invoice and the second catalog's pricing. Believe me, a call form the PIS will get their attention.

Brian

[Bill Arnold]

I've bought a ton of stuff from MLCS over the years and have never had a problem. One time, I bought a spiral 'downcut' bit (for handheld routing) when it was on sale. A couple of weeks later, I realized I should have also bought an 'upcut' bit to use on my router table. It was no longer on sale, but I wrote to them asking if they could honor the sale price. I didn't really expect them to sell to me at the lower price and was pleasantly surprised when they did. :D

Like John, I always check online pricing before ordering from any vendor. If there is a discrepancy between the catalog price and online price, I write to the vendor to clarify pricing before pressing the 'Order' button.

Not to hijack the thread, but I've seen a lot of pricing differences with Harbor Freight. For instance, I'll get one catalog that lists an item as $6, another catalog a couple of days later with the item as $10, and online the price is $8. Each item number is similar, but the suffix is different. You get the price for the exact number you enter. The bottom line is that you have to pay attention because you'll pay the price you choose.

[Clifford Mescher]

Never had any problems with MLCS. Clifford

[Douglas Brummett]

Sour grapes spilled over on Woodnet too (if you feel like reading more on this)



My comments from that thread:
" I feel your pain. Hurts when you miss the good price, especially if it is rubbed in your face with outdated print material.

However, I wouldn't slam them for maintaining profit. I know over the last 6-12 months that steel prices have gone up at a level that can't just be absorbed by a company that wants to stay in business. If the raw material price doubles the end product must also go up by some amount. Would you rather get them for $49 and have MLCS belly up 6 months from now? What if one of those cutters has a defect and breaks? How about then? Of course you will want them to continue free shipping right?

They warranty all their products for three years. Best give them enough money to keep them around that long.

Sorry if this seems personal. I can assure you it is not, just wanted to drop a reality check with the information on raw material costs from personal experience. "

" I can't say that I agree. The catalog states prices subject to change and thus MLCS has free reign on their retail pricing.

By contrast Eagle make no such loophole in their catalog, gaurantees pricing for 30 days, and warrants their products for life. Of course their 3pc set can be picked up for $99 on sale from $107. So there is a price for the better treatment http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowbiggrin.gif

That said I would take my money elsewhere before purchasing from a company that aggravated me so much. After a quick google search I would be right back at MLCS because I am a cheapskate and even at $64 that is about the best price on the net for a 3pc set with a warranty. If I was really pinching I would hit e-bay and forgo the warranty.

FWIW, I do own the set in question and got it prior to the increase in price. I searched around quite a bit and could do no better on price or warranty. No affiliation to MLCS other than a customer who didn't have any problem with his order. "

Overall it looks like only a few are truly offended by the service received. Kind of a sad state of affairs really when we are all so used to this. But at any rate this is what you get when scraping the bottom of the barrel. None of these issues really persist in areas where the margins are bigger.

[Courtney Brown]

Jim

I just went out to the MLCS web site and looked at the online catalog page #29 and the online catalog does show the $49.95. Just to see how MLCS would respond, I sent off an email to their customer service department asking about router bits and the pricing. I will post how they respond.

Courtney
Jim

I said I would provide you with MLCS’s response to my email last night.

I head up a customer service department for an international financial software company and wanted to see what sort of company MLCS was. I sent off an email asking about some of the issues I've seen in this thread. Early this afternoon I received a very courteous response discussing their catalog, pricing policy, and how they handle various service issues. They also sent a link with showing with the current pricing the old online catalog pricing.
Current pricing (Set #200 List $79....................SAVE $14! $64.95):
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_solid_sets.html (http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_solid_sets.html)

Online Catalog pricing (outdated) ($49.95):
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/cat/Site/0029.html (http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/cat/Site/0029.html)

I would have to say in my professional opinion that their response to my email was very good. I know Jim that you have had a bad experience with MLCS but they do provide a good product, generally a good price and I would have to say they provide good service in general.

Regards,

Courtney Brown

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

Just another reason to BUY LOCAL.

Bruce

[Jim Dailey]

Courtney,

"Thank You" for taking the time to contact MLCS.

And on the whole I do agree with 1st part of your statement taken from your last paragraph in your post " they do provide a good product, generally a good price and I would have to say they provide good service in general."

I have recommended on a number of occasions MLCS, and the irony is I have recommended this very same solid carbide bit set as a good starter set for Leigh FMT users. I have placed 1/2 doz. or so orders with no complaints. However my complaint is after having a problem with honoring the catalog pricing of an order based on a week old catalog, six weeks later they send out a second outdated catalog. When I received the second catalog showing the same lower price that they would not honor on the previous order, I thought that they "over charged" me on the last order.... What would you think? A simple "Sticker" stating we've had some price increases since this was printed on the catalogs cover directing the customer to their website for current pricing would have helped... The point is you can not trust the prices they are stating in the catalogs.

I have not said a thing about the quality of their products. I am a multiple order customer. The order with the sets of spiral cutters that they would not honor the catalog price had other bits, and the total order ran well over $300 on just router bits. Will I order from them again.... "Yes" BUT I will be VERY wary of any price stated in their catalogs.

However on your last point on "good customer service"... A good part of what makes customer service is how they solve problems. I had never in the past any issues to base a statement one way or another about their customer service. I had always placed the order for the prices stated in the catalog & I received order in a timely manor. But what makes for great customer service is not just a catalog, or honoring their prices, or good products, or solving problems... What makes for great customer service is to continue to do this consistently.

My long since past away Grandmother used to say "there's no use in laying a nice white egg if your going to ___ all over it..."

Again "Thank You" Courtney for the follow up with MLCS,

jim

[Norman Pyles]

I'm just don't understand why someone would get on the Internet, and slam a company over 8 bucks. With all the problems life throws at us, this just seems so trivial. JMO

[Leo Graywacz]

The original grinding of the bits sold by MLCS is somewhat lacking. I buy them and then immediately get them sharpened at my local sharpening company and they tune up real nice. And it is still cheaper to do it this way then buy at a retail store. My sharpening company comes to my shop and picks up as well as drops off. So no extra money there. Just a small hassle. I have bits that I got from them almost 20 years ago still going strong. But they use to come sharp, not like now where they come not so sharp. You get what you pay for.

[Bruce Wrenn]

I usually don't do "sour grapes..."

And being in business I understand prices increase....

I'll buy this ONCE.... Should I say I "Bought this once...." :o

I placed an order with MLCS on August 7th out of a catalog I had received about a week earlier for 4 sets of upcut solid carbide spiral bits (#200 - 1/4", 3/8" & 1/2" bits page 29 of their catalog). The printed price was $49.95, I was informed the price would be something like $69.95 because of a price increase... Several phone calls later they would sell the 4 sets to me @ $57.95 per

Today I receive a catalog a full 5 weeks after I placed the order & 6 weeks after the prior catalog came in the mail. It shows the $49.95 price. I called them on it.... "Oh those catalogs where printed months ago... We've had a giant price increase.... We're Sorry..." :mad:

Bate & Switch...????

Thus BEWARE of MLCS stated prices... other than the pictures the catalog doesn't mean much....

jim LEARN TO READ THE SMALL PRINT! Look on order form page "PRICES SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE." Me thinks you owe MLCS an apology.

[Bruce Benjamin]

LEARN TO READ THE SMALL PRINT! Look on order form page "PRICES SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE." Me thinks you owe MLCS an apology.

After reading this whole thread with the varying opinions I have to agree with this post. To me, paper catalogs are pretty much just for reading in the bathroom or while you're waiting for your wife to get ready to go out. If I want to know the price of something and/or order it I go to the internet because prices change but ink doesn't. I too think you owe them a public apology but don't really care enough to use exclamation points and all CAPITAL LETTERS.:rolleyes:;)

Regardless of what Eagle or any other company does, MLCS consistently has low prices and always has free shipping. Most of my bits are from Infinity and Whiteside and they are both about the same, (The best) but I do have some from MLCS. Generally they all cut very similarly but the Infinity and Whiteside bits are usually a little sharper and they hold their edge longer. It just depends on how much I'm going to use the bit when deciding which brand to buy. But since Infinity frequently has such great prices with their overstock sales they sometimes match or beat what MLCS has to offer.

Bruce

[Robert foster]

Me thinks both sides of this problem have some valid arguments. The customer thinks the company should honor prices in the catalog, the company decides to raise prices because the product costs them more. I think we all expect things to go up due to the increase in oil prices and all that that affects. However I also see Jim's side in that MLCS sent a catalog with old prices that they were not going to honor after they had raised the prices.
This past week I had a wake up experience that really shocked me. I took my wife out for lunch for a "senior meal". We have bee ordering from the senior menu for the last few years always $3.99. Very good price, good meal. That is why we go there. We had ordered from it so many times that we knew what it was and how much it was so we didn't ask to see it, we just said we would like to order from the senior menu. I guess we should have asked to see it but didn't. It didn't surprise me that it went up but what did surprise me was by how much. I thought the waitress could have asked if we wanted to see the new menu but she didn't. When I got the check it was 60% higher than before. When We went to the desk to pay it I told the owner that I was surprised at the increase. (I was nice about it.) She explained how their costs had gone up, especially for transportation. We left well fed but also somewhat lighter in the wallet.
I understand costs are ultimately paid by the consumer But I thought a 60% increase was a bit much. I think I will go back to order a "senior meal" when my SS and pension increases by 60%.
Please excuse the rambling But I think our lifestyles are in for a big change!!
Bob

[John Hixon]

Just a word. I ordered bits from MLCS, got what I ordered, quickly, and at the price I expected.

No problems, so I don't know how they might be handled.

[Clifford Mescher]

I'm just don't understand why someone would get on the Internet, and slam a company over 8 bucks. With all the problems life throws at us, this just seems so trivial. JMO
You gave me a chuckle. Your thoughts were my thoughts. I just didn't want to say it first. Clifford

[Douglas Brummett]

Getting on the internet and slamming a person or company is easy. Doing it at several sites is the part that takes dedication :D:D:D