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Neal Schlee
09-14-2008, 1:27 PM
Is anyone familiar with this software? Bought or used it?
Looks like it's aimed more towards graphic artists & illustrators. Spendy too!

Neal
Lasertech Alaska

Doug Griffith
09-14-2008, 1:35 PM
Also add in the cost of the Cintiq tablet they're using!!!

Larry Bratton
09-14-2008, 3:03 PM
Looks pretty neat but that $1000.00 price tag is a bummer! I reckon everything to be relative though..if you spent $1k on this, could you expect to enhance your product offering?

Dan Hintz
09-14-2008, 5:17 PM
Painter (formerly known as Fractal Design Painter, and most recently owned by Corel) would do this for 1/3rd the price, as well as give you thousands of options more. Since The program has fallen by the wayside, I think you can even get a free copy of a version from a few years ago (should still run on XP).

I just checked and Corel is still selling this under the name Painter X for $419 (possibly cheaper on the net).

Neal Schlee
09-14-2008, 6:40 PM
I see you can qualify for the Painter X upgade ($219) if you own CD X3 or X4 and there's a free trial too!

Neal
Lasertech Alaska

Larry Bratton
09-14-2008, 8:18 PM
Hummm..I own Painter...think I'll take a look at that. I've been using it for working on color photos to make them into "paintings". It works good but has a pretty steep learning curve.

Dan Hintz
09-15-2008, 8:23 AM
I picked up a copy when it was first introduced as Fractal Design Painter and was still owned by the original Fractal Design Studios... purchased it at its introduction at SIGGRAPH (in '94?). LOVED it, but haven't had much opportunity to play with it for quite some time. I have often considered picking up a pressure tablet and getting the latest version, but too many other things to play with.

Steve Clarkson
02-22-2009, 9:56 AM
Here you go Frank....

BTW.....does anyone use Painter? I have it, but don't know how to use it. I know that it will "paint" or sketch a photo right before your eyes.....but can it be engraved?

Frank Corker
02-22-2009, 10:09 AM
Yes it can be engraved but it is horrendously priced I think. I just wanted to read it again. Thanks for your trouble.

Larry Bratton
02-22-2009, 10:09 AM
Steve:
Output is a bitmap in Corel- RIF extension. It imports into Corel Draw and is like any other bitmap as far as engraving goes.

Anthony Scira
02-22-2009, 10:10 AM
Am I missing something ? Looks like the price for the program is only 99 dollars.

Steve Clarkson
02-22-2009, 10:23 AM
Steve:
Output is a bitmap in Corel- RIF extension. It imports into Corel Draw and is like any other bitmap as far as engraving goes.


Thanks Larry

Doug Griffith
02-22-2009, 10:34 AM
I see 99 as well.

I think the key feature of the software is being able to control the direction of the strokes. Photoshop and a good tablet could do very similar using brush angle, weight, and fade. It would be very time consuming though.

Cheers,
Doug

Dan Hintz
02-22-2009, 11:33 AM
Steve,

I used Painter when it was initially announced at SIGGRAPH (graphics conference) in the early 90's(?) and still owned by Fractal Design. I was so stunned by its natural media capabilities I purchased a copy on the spot. Unfortunately I haven't touched it in years, though I have been tempted to use my original serial # and try to update it through Corel (it may be too old at this point to qualify).

As far as the laser is concerned, the final image is going to be no different than any other bitmap created in your favorite brand of raster graphics package. Where Painter comes into play is how that image is created. Painter allows you to edit/create your image in such a way as to mimic natural media, particularly when used with a pressure-sensitive tablet. For example, if you lay down a stroke using the charcoal tool, it looks just as if you took a charcoal stick to a piece of art paper, with the line thickening/darkening as you press harder on the tablet, and the edges fading into dots (larger, then smaller as you move away from the center of the line). And just as with real charcoal, you can brush over it with your watercolor brush and it will look as if you really added water to the charcoal by diffusing it and spreading it out on the page.

One warning... if you don't have any natural talent, the package will not magically give it to you any more than other software packages will. Yes, it has "wizards", plug-ins, and one-click effects which can do some amazing things, but in the end you still have to be capable of putting all of the elements together in a cohesive package. If you're quite capable of using PhotoShop to create amazing photos, you'll have similar luck using Painter after a bit of practice.

Considering what substrates most of our lasering goes onto and the fact that it's a B/W or grayscale process, I see Painter as having limited use. The pen & ink, charcoal, and other grayscale drawing styles would be notable exceptions.

EDIT: I suppose if I had reread the older posts in this thread before responding again I would have noticed my earlier posts covered the history of Painter ;)

Steve Clarkson
02-22-2009, 11:55 AM
--------------->>>>>>>> Absolutely NO talent here!!!!!!!!

I figured since I have the Wacom tablet and the Painter software, that I could magically make some photos into pencil drawings with a click of a button.............

Thanks for saving me a few hours of trying!!!!!!

Dee Gallo
02-22-2009, 12:21 PM
--------------->>>>>>>> Absolutely NO talent here!!!!!!!!

I figured since I have the Wacom tablet and the Painter software, that I could magically make some photos into pencil drawings with a click of a button.............

Thanks for saving me a few hours of trying!!!!!!

Steve, just send me that Wacom tablet and it won't bother you anymore... I just went to a Circuit City closeout and they had one, but it was broken... bummer. Oh well, I don't seem to have any trouble drawing with a mouse, though.

Really, you CAN just click a button for those effects in Photoshop artistic filters. Painter is a great program if you put in the time to learn it... but that does not teach you drawing skills. For that, I'm afraid you'll have to go back to ancient technology, the pencil and paper.

cheers, dee

Dan Hintz
02-22-2009, 12:26 PM
--------------->>>>>>>> Absolutely NO talent here!!!!!!!!

I figured since I have the Wacom tablet and the Painter software, that I could magically make some photos into pencil drawings with a click of a button.............

Thanks for saving me a few hours of trying!!!!!!
Actually, if you want one-click changes, I think you'll be reasonably successful with Painter. I believe they called it cloning back in the day (though now I believe PhotoShop uses that term for selecting a similar color palette). Import your image, click the Pencil Clone button, set the parameters (line width, bluriness, etc.), and click OK.

Doug Griffith
02-22-2009, 1:17 PM
The thing about filters and other one-click solutions is the lack of directional brush strokes. Sure, you can set an angle but the angles do not flow and change direction with the subject matter.

Cloning is replicating from one area to another. You pick the origin and then the target and basically duplicate from one to the other. The tool is called the "magic wand". (Whoops, its the "stamp tool" as Dee noted)

Dee Gallo
02-22-2009, 1:27 PM
Doug, as far as I know, the "magic wand" is a selection tool for selecting similar pixels or contiguous pixels, The "cloning tool" looks like a stamp in the tool box and it simply replicates a selected area wherever you click and drag the mouse, as you described.

What I don't understand is why Steve wants to make photos into pencil drawings...for the laser? Are you trying for a lithographic appearance?

Doug Griffith
02-22-2009, 1:38 PM
Doug, as far as I know, the "magic wand" is a selection tool for selecting similar pixels or contiguous pixels, The "cloning tool" looks like a stamp in the tool box and it simply replicates a selected area wherever you click and drag the mouse, as you described.

What I don't understand is why Steve wants to make photos into pencil drawings...for the laser? Are you trying for a lithographic appearance?

Dee, you are 100% correct. It is called the "clone stamp tool" and looks like a stamp. I'm used to command keys and sometimes speak before I think.

Cheers

John W. Love
02-22-2009, 3:53 PM
For that, I'm afraid you'll have to go back to ancient technology, the pencil and paper.

Be careful Dee, your gonna show your age :eek:

Can you still buy pencils and paper? I thought perhaps that "ancient technology" went by the wayside with the typewriter.
Also, we might want to refrain from using jargon that some of the kids that might start lurking these forums won't recognize.
Words to avoid... Pencil, Paper, typewriter, cassette and of course 8-track, WORK, manual labor... I am sure there is an infinite list, but that is a starter. ;)

Steve Clarkson
02-22-2009, 4:56 PM
Dee, I was just trying to figure out if I could be creative and/or artistic using a computer program (since I'm too analytical to have a creative bone in my body!).

I thought that picture of the dog that Frank posted looked really nice and that it might engrave well.

And no...........you're not getting my Wacom.....even though I just use it as a big mouse.....I LOVE it!

Dee Gallo
02-22-2009, 6:49 PM
Be careful Dee, your gonna show your age :eek:

Can you still buy pencils and paper? I thought perhaps that "ancient technology" went by the wayside with the typewriter.
Also, we might want to refrain from using jargon that some of the kids that might start lurking these forums won't recognize.
Words to avoid... Pencil, Paper, typewriter, cassette and of course 8-track, WORK, manual labor... I am sure there is an infinite list, but that is a starter. ;)


Hey John,

I'm old enough to not care if people know how old I am... in fact, today is my 58th birthday!

We geezers were talking recently about what didn't exist when we were kids, and the list is amazing. I mean forget computers and cell phones, I remember when 45s and transistor radios were a really cool thing and the first hand held calculators came out when I was in college, around the same time color TV became common. WHAT?:eek:

Martin Boekers
02-22-2009, 6:53 PM
Sometimes the sketch effect turns out well, things like rural scenes portraits, animals etc.

One thing to remember if you use a Photoshop filter the best effects aren't doing the one stop thing with the filter. It needs to be combined with other filters and adjustments to get the best affects!

I turn to a handfull of actions that are freeware online for that, some you have to pay for but there are many nice actions for free.

Some ones I would recommend searching for and trying out are the Black and White coversions for color images, they can make life soooo much simpliar or if you really want to delve into the workings of the actions you can "dissect" them a step at a time and learn more about the interactions.


Marty

Larry Bratton
02-22-2009, 7:12 PM
Here is a Corel Painter X example that I created. Some people can actually create stunning output with this program. Fay Sirkis for one. Here is a link that gives info about her. She gets BIG BUCKS for what she produces.
http://apps.corel.com/painterx/us/pFaySirkis.html

Rudy Ress
02-22-2009, 7:58 PM
Well Dee I wish you a very HAPPY BIRTHDAY. Hope you had an opportunity to go and do something you enjoyed. I prefer to think of us as a good bottle of wine - only getting better with age. Best wishes.

Steve Clarkson
02-22-2009, 8:26 PM
today is my 58th birthday!

:eek:

Happy Birthday Dee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


.....oh, had I known it was your birthday, I would have gotten you that Wacom.......

Dee Gallo
02-22-2009, 8:44 PM
Thanks, Rudy and Thanks, Steve! I figure I'm only halfway there, so we've got plenty of time to get into more trouble!

Steve - Maybe I should have said TOMORROW is my birthday.... ;)

John W. Love
02-22-2009, 9:25 PM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEE!!!!!
I would have made you something, but... I am still learning from you.

And I am not far behind you. I may grow older, but I absolutely refuse to grow up!

Dee Gallo
02-22-2009, 10:43 PM
Thanks, John! I like your attitude!

I only have the one dog now (as you see in the avatar) but he runs the joint too. Funny how they do that.

We all learn from each other here, that's the beauty of this forum. I have scribbled notes all over my 2 manuals from the posts I read here. It's so great that someone else will always know something that you don't and vice-versa.

The Creek Rules!

Frank Corker
02-23-2009, 10:38 AM
Happy birthday for tomorrow Dee, get that neanderthal to take your for a nice candlit dinner.... Barry White records, wine.....


Anyhoo, getting back to the post. I actually think people like to see a really good sketch, this program seems to deliver that, but it is very much a personal choice I think. There are a few that turn them into paintings, such as the one Larry made above (very nice too) but different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Steve Clarkson
02-23-2009, 10:52 AM
Sooooo.....are you going to part with $99 to get it?

Frank Corker
02-23-2009, 11:46 AM
depends on whether you send me your wacom or not

Steve Clarkson
02-23-2009, 2:26 PM
depends on whether you send me your wacom or not

How come everyone wants my Wacom????

I think I'll start a thread like the flame polisher one where we can do a group order.......that way some of you will be able to satiate your Wacom-envy.

George Brown
02-23-2009, 4:02 PM
How come everyone wants my Wacom????

I think I'll start a thread like the flame polisher one where we can do a group order.......that way some of you will be able to satiate your Wacom-envy.


My Wacom is bigger than your Wacom! :p

Dan Hintz
02-23-2009, 4:12 PM
My Wacom is bigger than your Wacom! :p
But mine's more sensitive...

Steve Clarkson
02-23-2009, 4:33 PM
LMFAO!!!!

This thread MUST be bordering on SOME type of TOS violation!!!!!!!

Dee Gallo
02-23-2009, 4:51 PM
Okay, maybe I don't want one anymore....

Frank Corker
02-23-2009, 4:55 PM
[quote=Steve Clarkson;1061814]......How come everyone wants my Wacom????quote]

Because we all know it's still brand new!

Dave Johnson29
02-23-2009, 5:07 PM
Because we all know it's still brand new!


Haaa, I am on the floor....


:D:D:D:D:D:D

Anthony Welch
02-23-2009, 5:18 PM
Oh man... I've got to watch out when I'm drinking coffee. Now I've got to clean the screen and desk.:D

Anthony

Steve Clarkson
02-23-2009, 5:22 PM
Anthony, I hope you didn't spew any on your Wacom.......

Michael Kowalczyk
02-24-2009, 1:35 PM
Well Dee, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!
and as my tradition goes- whoever's birthday it is and I find out about it- no matter who it is and where I am- they get the privilege of being one of the select few that hear me sing The Happy Birthday song in Polish. unfortunately, or fortunately, I have not figured out how to compress my voice small enough to fit with in the limitations of this forum. So here it is typed out for you:

Sto lat, sto lat, niech żyje żyje nam
Sto lat, sto lat, niech żyje żyje nam
Jeszcze raz, jeszcze raz, niech żyje żyje nam
Niech żyje nam!


It means something like Bless you, Bless you, may you live a hundred years. Others say it translates a little different but I'm sticking with the one I was told. I have a blast going up to complete strangers and singing this to them. Whether they are male or female, old or young, a cashier at a Walmart, a grandmother at a restaurant in Segin, Texas whose family sang a pathetic happy birthday but had tears (of gladness I hope;)) after I sang to her after they had their dessert, or the 85 year old lady working at a jewelry/clothing booth at a Czech festival, in town, grabbed me by my arms to pull me down ( I'm about 6'2'+ and she was under 5') so she could kiss me on both cheeks and said a bunch of words in Czech, I guess or it could have been in Polish for all I know. Which is only a handful of words and phrases. But you can always tell by looking in their eyes how they feel even when you don't understand what they say. So get your camera and take a picture so we can see how you feel on your birthday.

Enjoy your day and ...

Marc Myer
02-24-2009, 1:47 PM
Thanks for the reminder! The early Fractal Design Painter was great and fairly easy to use. I taught a college class that used it almost exclusively. I agree that it depends entirely on the skill/vision of the user, but it can produce some cool results. I'll have to dust off my old copy and see what the files will look like engraved.

Dee Gallo
02-24-2009, 2:21 PM
Wow, Michael, I must say THAT is a first! Thank you so much, I can tell you I am smiling right now!

Thank you, dee :) this is me smiling