PDA

View Full Version : Poorman's Cermark?



David Dustin
09-12-2008, 6:13 PM
All this may have been kicked around already so if it has forgive me...

I had a thought today (and quickly wrote it down cause it doesn't happen very often...:)) regarding the composition of cermark.

In the past I have used cold galanizing compound and remembered it was in essence liquid zinc.

I tried some on Stainless steel using the default "coated metal dark" setting and it worked (see attached image). Oh yeah, my wife is a SAINT because she didn't care if I wrecked one of her knives!

It did require a 2nd pass to get it to adhere, and the color isn't as darl as cermark, but it did work.

I tried to buff the mark off and it would not come off.

Has anyone else tried this? If not maybe you can name it after me...:)

David

Ross Lowry
09-12-2008, 6:23 PM
What brand did you use?

David Dustin
09-12-2008, 6:36 PM
I used Rustoleum Cold Galvanizing compound.

I didn't even wait for it to dry...

The secret was the 2nd pass. If I only did it in one pass it would come right off with a buffing wheel. After the 2nd pass it was "on there".

When I tested the Cermark there was an actual physical edge that could be felt. With the "po-boy" method there was no edge that I could feel.

The mark is not as dark as Cermark (which does a wonderfull job).
Clean-up requires a little more elbow grease and maybe hot water.
The smell when you spray is also stronger than cermark.

I am sure there are varieties of it out there that my not be as pungent.

David

Dan Hintz
09-12-2008, 7:31 PM
My guess would be the first pass boiled the liquid off, the second pass cemented it on. Try letting a coat dry first, then see what a single pass does against the wheel.

Darren Null
09-12-2008, 8:20 PM
More info please; and with more 'what it's made of' and less brand names, please. Some of us are in europe, you know...

David Dustin
09-12-2008, 8:49 PM
My guess would be the first pass boiled the liquid off, the second pass cemented it on. Try letting a coat dry first, then see what a single pass does against the wheel.

I tried that and it buffed right off (I use an abrasive).
Lower power settings don't do anything either, it needs high power.

David

David Dustin
09-12-2008, 8:54 PM
Darren,
It is available from a variety of suppliers here.
Basically it contains 95% Zinc and a method of delivery such as a propellant.
I think Dan is correct about the sequence.
It seems the 2nd pass fuses the zinc residue into the metal.

The Cermark is still superior in speed and quality, I just think it is cool and it could do in a pinch.

David

Darren Null
09-12-2008, 9:06 PM
Thanks.

So some sort of solution of zinc; painted or sprayed on....then laser it, right?

David Dustin
09-12-2008, 10:12 PM
That is pretty much it.

Darren Null
09-12-2008, 10:24 PM
Hooray! That's cheaper. Now to find some zinc.....

David Dustin
09-12-2008, 10:35 PM
Well like I said it is not as good as Cermark, but is OK.

It may require another chemical to enhance it further.

David

Darren Null
09-12-2008, 10:37 PM
And the other chemical?

David Dustin
09-13-2008, 7:40 AM
I have no idea what the other chemical is at this point.
David

Mike Christen
09-13-2008, 8:55 AM
What power settings did you use and what wattage laser do you have. Interesting alternative to IMO very expensive cermark.
Mike

Dan Hintz
09-13-2008, 9:39 AM
For a goof, see if you can mix some zinc solution with toner for darkness. The zinc may lock in the toner... If the toner refuses to mix with the solution, you may need to find a suitable surfactant (couple drops of liquid soap, alcohol, etc.).

Rodne Gold
09-13-2008, 9:55 AM
Mix in Molybdenum disulfide or trisulfide...

David Dustin
09-13-2008, 10:47 AM
I tried it with Gold and it did not adhere at all, no matter what setting I used.

David

Doug Griffith
09-13-2008, 10:53 AM
How about mixing it with black ceramic glaze in powdered form?

Rodne Gold
09-13-2008, 12:18 PM
Thats the Molybdenum stuff........

Scott Challoner
09-13-2008, 1:10 PM
Try going over it with black Rub-n-Buff. Sometimes that enhances Cermark marks.

Darren Null
09-13-2008, 2:14 PM
Zinc and Molybdenum disulfide or trisulfide then. Good plan. I'm not worried about buying chemicals anymore...I'm probably already on the watch list after attempting to buy (now illegal in Spain) chloroform to weld acrylic with.

Bill Cunningham
09-13-2008, 8:46 PM
I'm marking some zinc cast dog tags (woof type) and using 2% speed 100 power, and 600 dpi.. Then I just clear coat them.. The mark stays, and it's nice and black..
The cermark also works on them, but they have a clear coat from the factory, and I have to sand blast it off that area before using cermark.. The slow speed burn, and a new clear coat works much faster..

Tom Bull
09-13-2008, 10:59 PM
Duncan brand ceramic paint EZ023 midnight blue, a translucent underglaze will mark stainless steel. The image is not a dark black, but is very durable, I have a multi tool pliers that I use daily that was marked 15 months ago and mark is still good enough that people comment on the personalized pliers. It must be applied very thin, very even and let it dry. With my 30 watt I use 100 power and 15 speed. If it is too thick or thin the results wipe off, but when applied right, presto!

David Dustin
09-14-2008, 8:17 AM
What power settings did you use and what wattage laser do you have. Interesting alternative to IMO very expensive cermark.
Mike

Mike,
I have a 60 Watt (VLS 3.60) Universal Laser using the 2.0 lens.
When Marking I use 100% power and 25% speed for both passes, the 2nd pass required as of my last testing.

Cermark is much faster and cleans up better.
I think there are different methods of appliying the cold galvanizing compound such as with a brush.

Hope this helps.
David

Tom Bull
09-17-2008, 8:44 PM
Duncan ceramic paint ez023 midnight blue will bond to stainless steel. Has to be applied very thin, very even and burn slow and my 30W at 100%. Did it on a tool 18 months ago that I carry and use every work day and the name is still on there well enough to hear an occasional "where did you get the personalized Tough Tool?"

Michael Kowalczyk
09-17-2008, 9:58 PM
Nice to see ingenuity in the works here but is zinc safe to handle/breathe?
I know that our lenses have zinc and was told that if it breaks not to touch it because it can poison you.
Is the zinc you are using different than the zinc in laser lenses?
Just want to make sure if these need special handling to make sure someone less technical than you guys doesn't experiment and blow up their spare bedroom, shop or where ever they laser. Maybe a little disclaimer or notation as to any safety issues or if it is inert/non toxic.

Just watching out for the ones who always ask for help after the fact instead of before.

Scott Challoner
09-17-2008, 11:18 PM
I know there is something called galvanic poisoning which welders used to get from the zinc burning off galvanized steel. Proper venting is required. Other that that, it looks like the treatment is to drink lots of milk. I'm not just making that up because I'm from Wisconsin. I read it on the intergoogle.:D

David Dustin
09-18-2008, 6:22 AM
Scott,
I was born In Wausau (that is in WI for all you non-cheeseheads), used to be a welder in a former life, used to weld a LOT of galvanized, aluminum, stainless Steel and other various metals.

Galvanized can indeed cause problems for your lungs but you need to breathe more than just a wiff of it. There is more going on when you weld galvanized coatings then lasing a zinc compound. More of an issue with using the Rustoleum version was burning off the enamel base coating.

I have to say that I made an assumtion people would be using exhaust with their systems....

David

Scott Challoner
09-18-2008, 10:13 AM
Wausau is a beautiful area. A friend has a cabin near Tomahawk and I hope to get up there for the fall colors in a few weeks.

I agree. I think you would have to breath a lot of it to cause a problem. With proper exhaust, risk is probably nil.

Dave Johnson29
11-01-2008, 12:36 PM
Zinc and Molybdenum disulfide or trisulfide then.

Hi Darren,

Did you get anywhere with this experimenting?

Just recovering from sticker-shock at the "other" fluid.