stair help

[ravi patel]

Hi,
I am new to forum and good to see tons of useful information. I plan to install hardwood on my stair after removing the carpet.

I need the stair guys expertise advice on how to overcome my stair issue.

1) As you can see in the pic, the tread is cupped. I believe its construction grade pin of sort. The stair is very squeeky and you can feel the tread move as you climb. What is the best solution to remedy this ? Would installing a full tread resolve the noise ? what about the cupping, if i fill with PL glue..would that help ?


2) How do i resolve the difference in riser height as i will be installing the 1" thick treads directly over the existing one ?

3) I would really like to to cut the stringer and exposed the treads on the right side of this stair to get a side return look...but i guess that would make the whole stair structurally unsound due to its box/mortised tread design...correct ?

4) where should i look to buy treads in NJ ? HD has pine for $10 a piece. One mill shop quoted me $8.50 /LF for maple. Still contemplating whether to use pine/oak/maple. Maple because the flooring will be engineering select maple. Oak because i could stain it mahogony with white riser...should contrast good with maple floor. And pine because its cheep and just apply coats of poly. BTW, I am on tight budget.

Regards

[Frank Drew]

Ravi,

I'm not wild about the idea of installing new treads on top of the old ones. Since you're on a tight budget, have you considered just sanding and refinishing the existing treads? The amount of cupping doesn't seem excessive (at least from the photo you posted), and you could probably deal with the squeaking by countersinking in some screws and filling the holes with plugs.

Just a thought.

[Steve Schoene]

You can't install 1" thick treads over the existing treads unless you make the floors on both levels 1" thicker also. All risers must be the same height according to the building codes. In the IRC the tolerance between the tallest riser and the smallest is 3/8"

What is under the stairs--in other words how difficult would it be to get at the bottoms side of the existing treads. To really get the look you are wanting it would almost seem that you would have to entirely replace the stairs, which is a hugh task.

I'd seriously think of refinishing the existing stairs. Otherwise the budget could quickly get out of hand.

[James Ashburn]

I think I would just refinish them. I did what you are proposing and it was a big challenge and consumed a massive amount of time. I'd try to get all the treads the same consistent color, maybe use wood bleach, and then stain/finish them. I'd also paint the risers. You should be able to get some facegrain plugs for when you countersink the screws. You can also buy a set of plug cutters and make your own.

If you can't get the color of the treads to match before staining you can always just replace them and still come out ahead.

[ravi patel]

Under the stairs is drywalled and would mean a big mess to rip it open. But even if I did, is it even possible to replace mitered/boxed in treads ?

Also some of the edge of the existing treads is broken/blunt, can that be repaired with an expoxy colored to match the tread ?


You can't install 1" thick treads over the existing treads unless you make the floors on both levels 1" thicker also. All risers must be the same height according to the building codes. In the IRC the tolerance between the tallest riser and the smallest is 3/8"

What is under the stairs--in other words how difficult would it be to get at the bottoms side of the existing treads. To really get the look you are wanting it would almost seem that you would have to entirely replace the stairs, which is a hugh task.

I'd seriously think of refinishing the existing stairs. Otherwise the budget could quickly get out of hand.

[Lee Schierer]

If you can see the stucture under the stairs, you can eliminate the squeeking from there. You can carefully drive shims under the treads to take up the space that is allowing the nail to rub on the wood or the wood to rub on the wood. Don't pound in too much shim or you will lift the stair up. Put glue on the shim so it doesn't fall out over time after you cut it off. Make the shim stradle the nail where the squeek is occurring. Be careful about lifting up the tread withthe shim as people will trip if a step is more than 1/4" different from the other tread heights.

If you want to replace the treads, rmove the old ones first. You will need to know exactly how the stairs are built to do this. The same is true of your short wall. It may not be load bearing and if it doesn't support the stairs, it could be removed.

[Richard Wolf]

It really looks and sounds like it's time for a new staircase. While it's not the easiest project there are some good books on stair building to get you started. If you are really serious about it I could talk you though it. If you need stairparts in NJ, try F.J. Newmeyer.
http://fjnewmeyer.com/welcome.htm
I think they only sell to the trade, but maybe you know a finished carpenter.

There are also stair companies which sell false treads, which are 3/8" thick for doing just what you are doing.

Let me know if I can help?

Richard

[Eric Larsen]

I'm in the middle of my stairs at the moment. And I was in the middle of my stairs the week before that, and the week before that. A quick scan of "weekend doin's" will confirm.

I've been working on them for a solid month, and I'm still only about half done. Granted, I'm no woodworking wizard. But I'd like to think I'm half-way competent. And I'm here to tell you, stairs are hard.

If you rip out the treads and replace, you're going to find yourself cutting the new treads a few degrees left or right of 90 on each side, and they won't match stair to stair. The treads themselves are all different lengths, and you'll spend an hour lining up the cut. Otherwise you'll be doing the same tread over and over and over.

Then you have the stair cap on the right side, which you've already removed, so welcome to heck. Crown molding is a snap compared to cutting stair cap and getting it right. A bevel gauge and a really good protractor are musts. On my set, I've had to split the difference on 58-degree angles, 35-degrees, 52.5-degrees, 38.5-degrees etc. None of it adds up to 90, ever. My stairs defy Euclidean geometry. I swear the rough carpenters were snorting meth.

Next up, newels. I had to double-bevel cut mine because the floors aren't level. I believe the worst offender was 3 degrees off on one axis and 5 degrees off on the other.

Then we have the balusters, which look funny at any position other than "vertical." so you have to mark your cap and rail, and drill both at the aforementioned 52.5-degrees, 58-degrees etc. I haven't come up with a jig I like (and believe me, I've tried), so I incline the rail to the proper angle, then drill the hole while my wife holds a plumb line I can use as a reference.

So far for 14 treads, two small landings, and rail on the second-floor hallway:

5 newels - $400 delivered from www.buystairparts.com
60 lf of handrail - $300
105 wrought iron ballusters - $500
210 balluster shoes - $250
60 lf of 7.5" stair cap - $200 (I'm not even counting the 20lf or so that I've done over because I wasn't satisfied.)
4 tubes of E-6100 Glue From Hell - $40
1 Newel wrench - $10
12 giant hanger bolts and assorted hardware - $30
6 (and counting) abrasive Hilti metal cutting blades - $30
Stain, urethane, glue & caulk - $30

Total? About $1,800, and about 120 hours so far. Even if you went with paint-grade wood balusters and ditched the shoes, you're still looking at about $1,500. This is assuming your setup is like mine. How many treads, and how much rail are you going to need?

But basically, "budget" and "stairs" are mutually exclusive.

[Matt Ocel]

Ravi -

If you want it done right -

Take Richard up on his offer!!!

[ravi patel]

Rich,
Thanks for the kind offer. Would love to seek your help with this project. So for starters...which book would you recommend. Also, i am interested in more of renovation of this stairs rather than start a complete overhaul...would be too much for me to handle and not to mention the cost and time. But i still would like to go the route of securing the existing treads (some how as pointed by others here) and then install "new" treads or even hardwood planks with bullnose edging. Thanks again and looking forward to help me get started.

Posting some more pics below:


It really looks and sounds like it's time for a new staircase. While it's not the easiest project there are some good books on stair building to get you started. If you are really serious about it I could talk you though it. If you need stairparts in NJ, try F.J. Newmeyer.
http://fjnewmeyer.com/welcome.htm
I think they only sell to the trade, but maybe you know a finished carpenter.

There are also stair companies which sell false treads, which are 3/8" thick for doing just what you are doing.

Let me know if I can help?

Richard

[Richard Wolf]

Ravi, I don't want to talk you into something, but building new is sometimes easier.

Any of the first 5 books on this page are very good.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=stair+building&x=0&y=0

Just keep in mind that stair work contains a lot of math and geometry, and any good stair book is going to read like a 10 grade math text.

What part of NJ do you live?

Richard

[ravi patel]

Ravi, I don't want to talk you into something, but building new is sometimes easier.

Any of the first 5 books on this page are very good.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=stair+building&x=0&y=0

Just keep in mind that stair work contains a lot of math and geometry, and any good stair book is going to read like a 10 grade math text.

What part of NJ do you live?

Richard
thanks, will get them and start reading. BTW, i love math;) i am near Edison,NJ

[Shawn Buonarosa]

My friend once commissioned me to help him re-build his stairs, as he knew I had some woodworking knowledge. I tried to tell him stairs are a whole new ballgame, but he wouldn't have any of that....
2 weeks of going there after work for 3-4 hours a night and we were not even half-way done, so we called in a pro.
He finished that following day, with repairing our "boo-boo's".

I guess what I'm hinting at is how much is your time worth? I'm not trying to steer you away from the project either, just a friendly heads up in case you had something to do in the next month, lol.

[ravi patel]

Ok finally done. All the stair creeks are gone. Next challenge is to make a medellian in the center of the foyer...any Medellion making videos or how-to-articles would be helpful. The pics below are mixed with work-in-progress to completed work. Final paint and finishing to be done. Thank for looking.:cool:


http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/ravi2patel/us-jan-09007.jpg

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/ravi2patel/us-jan-09068.jpg

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/ravi2patel/us-jan-09063.jpg

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg352/ravi2patel/us-jan-09066.jpg

[Don Bullock]

Wow, that's a beautiful set of stairs. It may have taken a while to build them, but the result is outstanding.

[Scott Rollins]

Very Nice!! I won't let the wife see these pics!

[Chris Padilla]

Did you do these all yourself, Ravi? If so, it is an amazingly professional-looking job. Your love of math and reading books came around full-circle to aid you!!

...or did Mr. Wolf give you a nudge in the right direction? :D ;)

[ravi patel]

Did you do these all yourself, Ravi? If so, it is an amazingly professional-looking job. Your love of math and reading books came around full-circle to aid you!!

...or did Mr. Wolf give you a nudge in the right direction? :D ;)

Mr. Wolf work definitely was inspirational for me! yes i did it myself but did not read any books…(PS :o..put the hardwood on existing threads…sorry Mr.wolf).

The outcome is good but not looking forward to doing it again...IT IS HARD WORK MAN

[Richard Wolf]

Well the results look great, nice work.

Richard