"Dimensional" lumber?

[John Miliunas]

Whew, guess I might have to check the "big box" stores more often. I buy my hardwoods from a local sawyer and mill them myself, but recently had the need for some plain old Pine boards to box out some basement windows. Not all of them were set back exactly the same amount, but I found that the deepest I'd have to go was just a sliver over 7-1/4". I figured, "Cool. I'll just get some 1x8's. The commons were on sale, to boot. Got them home, measured up my first one. "Yup, this one's right at 7-1/4". So, I set the fence on my TS for 7-1/4", threw the board up there and....and.....and...."Wait a minute! I must've set my fence wrong!" Nope. Fence was right. Upon closer inspection, I found a marking on the board which did indeed show it as 3/4" x 7-1/4"!!! What the hey? OK, so I don't go back quite far enough to when a 2x4 was a true 2x4, but I do remember 1-3/4"x3-3/4". I also remember that boards were typically 1/4" shy of the thickness dimension and 1/2" shy of the width. When in blazes did the other 1/4" disappear?! Or was this just something specific to this particular big box? Seems to me that calling it a 1x8 is really, *REALLY* stretching it a bit, no?!:mad:

[Rob Glynn]

John.
I guess this problem is international, it certainly exists here in the land downunder.
It was explained to me ages ago that the size of timber (lumber) was stated "off saw" and that thrinkage during any drying process since final milling, and loss during the dressing process, had to be allowed for. Depending on the timber, the loss could be 1/4 inch or more.
Oz is metric, but to revert to imperial, a 2 x 4 kiln dried and dressed was, still is, likely to be more like 1 3/4 x 3 3/4.
Whatever, I always take a tape with me to buy timber and I measure every piece.

[Rob Glynn]

John.
I saw your address just after I finished and sent my last post.
I stayed a few weeks in Madison in 2000 and, while there, was taken to an outdoor theatre at Spring Green to see a play. It was a great experience.
We had a meal on the way at a restaurant that was set up in an old flour mill, somewhere between Madison and Spring Green. There was a lot of art and craft stuff displayed at the restaurant, including some nice wooden pieces.
Good memories.

[John Miliunas]

I guess the "shrinkage" thing makes a *little* sense, but I still see it as us paying more for less. Or, "Global Warming" is truly affecting all walks of life. In this case, it's causing the lumber to shrink a heckuva' lot more!:D

As for your Madison trip a couple years ago, I know the exact locations of your excursions. The restaurant you stopped in is located in Mazomanie and is appropriately called, "The Old Feed Mill". I'm glad your experience was good, though I'm afraid I can't say the same for everyone. Although the atmosphere is truly unique, the owners are really a greedy pair. They are not at all liked by the locals and pretty much depend on people "passing through" for their business. Sad, because it really is kind of a neat place.

The theatre you speak of is "The American Players Theatre". It's located just outside of Spring Green and definitely a great experience in outdoor theatrics. This isn't 100%, but I'll bet there's a good chance you took in a play by Shakespeare. They do many there. My daughter, now 12, was cast for a bit-part several years ago for Macbeth. Quite the experience!

Glad you had a good time. If you should ever make it back out this way, you absolutely *HAVE* to drop me a line and we'll have you over for a good old Wisconsin tail-gate party! You haven't lived 'till you have some locally made brats, potato salad, cheese cake and wash it all down with a beer or two (or three or four or....)!:D :cool:

[Jason Roehl]

John,

A 2x4 has been 1½"x3½" for as long as I have been using them (I'm 28, so not that long). That's the only common dimensions that are ½" off. The wider boards are ¾" narrower than their nominal width (6->5¼, 8->7¼, and so on). No fun doing the construction math...

Jason

[John Miliunas]

"No fun" is right! Fortunately, I don't do much in this type of material, so not that big a deal and now that I *know* how shy the dimensions are in reality, I can plan accordingly. AND, if I do have any substantial amount to do, I think I'll go back to my sawmill and get it in the rough. A bit more work, but then I'm the one who determines final dimensions!:) Probably the most "fun" I've had with dimensional lumber is a number of years ago when I was doing some remodeling on an older home. Guess they didn't take the same "shrinkage factor" into account on *those* 2x4's! I sure am glad this is pretty much restricted to lumber. If this caught on elsewhere, we'd be paying $1.899 for a gallon of gas, but the "gallon" would only be @96 fl/oz! :cool:

[Jason Roehl]

AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

JOHN!!

Don't SAY stuff like that! We don't need to give the gas co's any ideas like that!!!

Cost me $59.75 to fill my truck the other day.

Jason

[Phil Phelps]

....I asked a similar question and Bill Tindall gave a really comprehensive answer. He hasn't made it over here, yet. Wish he would, he's extremley informative. When your in the lumber yard and need 200 bf, they'll measure the true width and length of the lumber. Buy a single 1 x 8 and, well you found out. I have a 2x4 in the shop that measures 1 5/8 x 3 5/8 like it was in the "good 'ol days". But (here I go) somebody bought somebody in power and now we have a 2x4 a full eighth off what it used to be. Then 3/4" plywood is a 32nd off. 1/4" plywood ain't 1/4". How'd it get that way? "Politics". And, this is as good as it gets. Grrr. Where's my bottle of Jack Black and oxygen? :mad:

[Tom Sweeney]

We have a very large builder in our area. They are not known, in the real estate community, for the quality of their work but they build beautiful big houses. I was told - but don't know for a fact - that they own their own lumber mills & building supply company. Supposedly their 2X's lose an extra 1/8" on each side from the ones you buy at the normal building supplies. I guess when you use thousands of 2X's a month that extra 1/8" adds up to a bit more profit. :( Not that I'm against companies making a profit - just wish mine would ;)

[Robert Henderson]

Dimensions for lumber in this country are all per milling dimensions. At the mill I use a rough cut 2x4 is indeed 2x4. After jointing and planning you end up with the 1 3/4 X 3 3/4 figure.


Robert

[Phil Phelps]

Originally posted by Tom Sweeney
We have a very large builder in our area. They are not known, in the real estate community, for the quality of their work but they build beautiful big houses. I was told - but don't know for a fact - that they own their own lumber mills & building supply company. Supposedly their 2X's lose an extra 1/8" on each side from the ones you buy at the normal building supplies. I guess when you use thousands of 2X's a month that extra 1/8" adds up to a bit more profit. :( Not that I'm against companies making a profit - just wish mine would ;)
I've always had this beef with anyone cutting corners. Just how much extra would it cost the buyer for the quality they expect and deserve? And, figure the cost over a 30 year mortgage. Miniscule. But, that extra bit of which they can line their pockets, is mognanamous. Their motto, "fast and cheap and charge their a---- off ". Dirty rats. :mad:

[Jim Izat]

I was using a five pound coffee can yesterday to draw a curve when I noticed there's nowhere near 5 lbs in there anymore either. Maybe we should go over to metric and learn standard sizes all over again..........


Jim Izat

[John Sanford]

Your standard half-gallon of ice cream? Better check carefully, because it may be either 1.75 or 1.5 quarts....

Not all ice cream makers have made the switch, but both Dreyer's and Breyer's have on much of their products.

:(

At least the ice cream makers don't actually sell these downsized products as "half gallons" of ice cream. Methinks its time for a Truth in Advertising claim against the lumber retailers.

yes, the retailers. I don't care WHAT the guy who sells to the guy who sells to me wants to call the product, I just want the warm security of knowing that if something claims to be 2" x 4" x 96", that it is ACTUALLY 2"x4"x96".

Maybe we should pay for this undersized lumber with undersized money. Sixty-Six cents on the dollar for 2x4s, sixty eight cents for 1x8s, or just use Canadian. :D