Opinions on Bandsaws?

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

The time is nearing to upgrade my Bandsaw. After the Dust Collection system is up and cruising, I will be in the market for an upgrade. I am interested in a unit with resaw capabilities, without pushing it to the limit. I do want a quality unit, at an affordable price........but don't we all? ;-)
I value the advice and opinions of all who frequent here, there is a tremendous amount of experienced Woodworkers here who are willing to share years of knowledge, which I find very helpful. I guess what I am looking for is what is hot, and what is not. I checked out a few at the Woodworkers Show in February, but the crowd was so big, I eventually just picked up the items I wanted, checked out a few seminars, and got out of the madness. I love the Woodworking Show, but in my neck of the woods, they have GOT to find a larger Venue. To those who think Woodworking only appeals to a small segment of the population, they have never been to the Woodworking Show! :D

[Garrett Lambert]

NM

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

I was thinking along the line of 16"...............possibly 18" also. I am not really locked into a price, but I would like to stay around the $800 range, give or take $100 or so, up to 1K. Like I mentioned in my lead-off post, I would like something with Wide Blade capabilities for resawing stock. If this can be accomplished with a 14" unit, I may go that route also. I always believe in buying quality, but the highest cost doesn't always equate to the best machine for the job, that is why I seeking opinions. Will a 14" machine accomplish the task, or do I need to go bigger? Just curious to see who likes what.........and why.

[Paul Di Biasio]

There has been a lot of talk about the Minimax Line.

It may be a stretch for you but I like to equate it to $30 month for 5 years. Cancel Cable TV. and you do it a little over a year.

I have the Bridgewood/ACM Italy PBS 440 18in saw. I have been happy for the most part. It think the Italian bandsaws rule the resaw world. Minimax, Felder, Laguna, Bridgewood, Centauro, ACM and Agazzani are all Italian.

Good Luck. see www.yahoogroups.com Minimax-usa for a lot of helpful advise.

[Todd Burch]

Hey Paul.

One thing to keep in mind is that the larger the blade capacity, it doesn't necessarily mean a better resaw machine. I use 1/2" resaw blades from timberwolf on my Jet saw, even though it will accept 3/4" wide blades. Besides the blade itself, what makes a good resaw machine is horsepower, good guides, and solid adjustments so you don't have to tweak the machine everytime you want to use it.

I have a Jet 14" closed stand bandsaw with a riser block, and I am not satisfied with the saw at all, and rarely use it except for fast, rough work. Any blade I put on it 1/4" or narrower falls off the rubber tire on the top wheel anytime I have to back out of a cut. I've been through the adjustments many times trying to make the wheels coplanar, but you just can't do it on the Jet. The suggestions for this procedure are all geared towards the Delta. If I bought another small machine like this, I would buy the Delta instead of the Jet.

Now, on the other hand, my Laguna 18" ($2200) is a cutting machine, and I have nicknamed it my "Macho-matic."

Todd.

[Garrett Lambert]

Re-saw capacity - a 14" bandsaw with a riser block will have as much or more re-saw potential (see below) as a 20" saw. (My 20" has 12" max cutting height.)

Frame - a 14" saw with a cast iron frame is more rigid than the 16 or 18 inchers with sheet metal cabinets. The cheap cabinet saws have single cabinet, the good ones a double and the excellent ones have a thir cabinet with a box cross-arm supporting the upper wheel.

Horsepower - more is better, but at least 1 HP if you can get it. Potential re-saw capacity isn't worth much if the saw hasn't got the power to use it. My 20" has a 3 HP motor for it's 12" capacity. Yes, you can slow the feed rate, but usually not enough to make a big difference and it's no fun when the saw bogs down during a cut.

Wheels - cast iron is much better than aluminum.

Table trunnions - again, cast iron over pot metal if you can get it, but on the smaller saws, that's not usual. Also check access and table adjusting mecahnism.

Fence - solid, easy to move and adjust, high.

Band guides - bearings are better than blocks, cool blocks are better than steel. Again, check access to the guides.

Dust collection, wheel brush, foot brake - all nice-to-haves but not essential.

Parts & service - always better to have your supplier nearby in case a problem arises.

Bands - good bands make a bandsaw sing and really good ones can compensate a lot for lack of power. A 3 TPI hook tooth 1/2" is all you need for re-saw, and 1/4' for curves. Don't try to saw straight with the band you use to cut curves. It won't, because it quickly develops a directional set. Keep it for that purpose only. Useful to also buy a finer blade for straight finishing cuts, eg 10 tpi 1/2". Buy silicon steel, and don't bother with carbide until you know for sure you need it.

Cheers, Garrett

[Jim Izat]

Hey Kevin,

From all I've read there seem to be two options in bandsaws, the delta (which I think just came out with a new model in the 1K range with riser, with a bit more HP) and the Italian models in the 1.4k range and up, way up!). I like my Delta but wish it had more horses. Had I to do over again (and I will someday) I'd by Italian in the 3hp range. You really don't get all that much more in throat or under guide clearance, but you do get more power, blade brake, better guides more blade capacity and more hp (sorry I guess I said that)

More power!

Jim Izat

[Rob Russell]

In your price range, you can consider a good used bandsaw. You should be able to find a 20", industrial grade saw in good shape for under $1K if you're patient.

For example, I walked into the Pratt surplus store yesterday and, for $1200, was a honkin' Marvel, variable speed bandsaw. It must've had a throat depth of close to 36" and height under guides of 15". You could setup a tailgate party on the table.

If you're not the type that likes to futz with machinery, I'd save the extra pennies and go for the Italian saw over the Delta.

[Steven Wilson]

Take a look at the Minimax MM16 or MM20 for heavy duty bandsaws or the Minimax S45 (18") for a good medium duty bandsaw ( a bit cheaper too). I went with the MM20 because it has a 4.8hp motor, 15" resaw capacity, great design (especially the guides), and it's made by Centauro; best 20" bandsaw under $5K

[jerry cousins]

another $.02 - minimax has proven to be a great machine. last year i did the "bandsaw search & research" and came to the mm. i know it's more than you want to spend - but long term it's a good investment. garrett's points ring true.
good luck

jerry

[Mike Lubin]

I agree that the Minimax is a great bandsaw, but it is pricey, about double your budget.

At this price range, your best bet is probably the 14" Delta w/ 1.5 HP motor. It is a proven design and you will rarely if ever hear any complaints about it.

However, there are many new bandsaws on the market recently including the new Jet 16" w/ 1.5 HP motor and new Grizzly 17" w/ 2 HP motor.

I am really interested in this Grizzly. On paper it sounds like a great saw. 12" Resaw, 2 HP motor, Quick tension release, and can tension a 1" blade, all for $825 shipped to your door! However, since it is so new I have only seen one review on it. The review was positive, but did note that the band size is incorrectly listed in the manual and there were also problems with the flatness of the table, but a call to Grizzly resolved that.

I have not heard much about the Jet yet.

Anybody out there own the new Jet or Grizzly saws???

- Mike

[JayStPeter]

I own a Grizzly G0513. Here is my review.
My G0513 Review (http://patriot.net/~stpeter/woodworking/G0513%20Review.htm)
You'll have to cut and paste, I don't know why I couldn't get links to work right? Thought I had before.

I compare it with the 16-18" Jets in the review.

---------
Oops, I guess links just don't work right in the preview

[Ted Shrader]

I have a Jet 14" closed stand bandsaw with a riser block and coolblock guides. It is old and blue vice new and white - except for the fence (which is white).

For re-saw I run a ½" Timberwolf even though it will take a ¾" wide blade. The saw has performed well for me. Todd Burch had a comment above - "Any blade I put on it 1/4" or narrower falls off the rubber tire on the top wheel anytime I have to back out of a cut." I have not had that problem. The wheels are co-planar and the blade runs true right in the center.

Some suggestions:
1. What do you think you will use it for the most?
2. How much do you want to spend?
3. How much room do you have?
4. Do you have 220V?
5. Since you are upgrading - What do you have now? Can you put a riser block on it and get some new blades? Would that be enough?

Not one to ever suggest NOT getting a new tool. :)
Ted

[Scott Greaves]

Hi Kevin,

I'm glad somebody finally mentioned the Grizzly! With the price restrictions you're looking at, I think the Grizzly 17" is an obvious choice. Grizzly has been doing a much better job of making bandsaws lately, and this saw is one of the examples.

In the same price range is to get a Delta or Jet 14" with a riser block. I have the Jet, and it seems to work fine.

I've been looking for a new bandsaw myself, and would probably be looking at that Grizzly, except I picked up a nice 18" Crescent at an auction before Christmas. Don't count out the possibility of picking up a used saw.

Good Luck!

Scott.

[Gary Hern]

I think the Grizzly would fit your needs almost perfectly. I bought the 19" G0514? and it is truly a good saw. I can't say great as I have never owned anything better. I have used the 14" Jet and the 14" Delta and can say that I am very happy with my saw over one of them. I do like the wider blade for resawing compared to the 1/2" because of the ease of keeping your cut straight. Also, I seem to use my narrower blades on bowl stock and they get dull pretty quickly cutting the debris on the surface and ground into the bark. The frame is very rigid and I love the quick release tensioner. The dust collection which I finally got around to hooking up last month impressed me. (Sometimes that doesn't take much though!) ;-) I have nothing to say bad about this saw other than there is one open channel behind the upper wheel on the left side of the bearing that could possibly allow the wet saw dust from bowl blanks to sit idly and cause rust. I don't know if this saw was dipped or not, but a quick cut of wood and some silicone adhesive sealed it up. I definately wouldn't be afraid of the 17" or 19" Grizzly. I paid more for the 19" because I wanted the larger table and by the time I bought it aftermarket and installed it, I'd have that invested anyway.

Gary:D

[Rob Sandow]

IMO, if you want a 16" machine, and I think that's a good idea, spend a few more dollars than you planned on and get the Laguna LT16. I'll spare you the specs, but it's a MUCH better saw than a 14" w/riser block in a lot of ways

The 14" saws won't tension big blades well, but you can get a better spring that will help. The other steel saws in the $1100 range include the Jet and Grizzly models which may be tempting because they are bigger, but they are made in the Far East, unlike the European Laguna. The Laguna's overall quality is better, and only a few $$ more expensive.

If you get a saw like this, be sure to get a carbide resaw blade. You will love it. Everyone I know who has tried one won't go back to the regular steel blades. I run a 1" x 2-3 TPI variable pitch Lenox TriMaster in my saw.

[Stan Smith]

Price is a concern to most of us. I have a 14" Jet with a riser block. That's what I could afford at the time. However, Jerry (see above post) has the Minimax. I have seen some of the stuff he has resawn with it and there is no comparison to the stuff done on my Jet. Hardly any sanding is required with the Minimax. I'm certainly getting one some day (when I can afford it). Get the Minimax. You'll only have to get rid of your Jet or Delta later on. FWIW

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Stan is 100 percent right, a 14" saw cannot compare to a mm16 or LT16. I have written and rewritten responses to the bandsaw question every time it is posed, but end up throwing them away every time. I decided to go ahead and post it and get it over with. It just aggrvates me when someone tries to compare a 14" bandsaw with a riser block to a Minimax or Laguna bandsaw. They always say "the resaw height is nearly the same with a riser block" like all that matters is fitting the wood you want to resaw under the upper guide. There is much more to resawing than capacity. There is the design of the upper and lower guides, the strength of the frame, the size and construction of the arbor and the size of the motor. All of these will affect the quality of the cut and the aggrvation factor of resawing.

Let me begin by saying that I have a cabinet saw and I can honestly say I don't think it performs $1000 better than the contractor saw it replaced. Yes its powerful and accurate, but you can only cut a 3 1/2 inch thick piece of wood on it. I love it and am glad I bought it, but the experience of cutting wood on it is only marginally better than the saw it replaced.

The 16" Italian bandsaws saws cost roughtly $1600 or about twice what the Delta 14" (not low price model) cost. All you have to do is put a 12" piece of oak through both saws to see what I mean. The Italian saws cut so much faster, cleaner, and smoother that it is literally an order of magnitude better than the Delta. There is just no comparison.

Does this mean that everyone should buy a high dollar european bandsaw? No, not at all. A 14" bandsaw is adequate for a lot of shops--probably most shops. But please, don't say they are comparable to each other. Thats like saying a Chevy Cavalier is comparable to a BMW.

[Mike Lubin]

I don't think that anyone will argue the fact that there is no comparison between a MM16 and a Delta 14". The point that myself and others said is that everyone has a budget for the tools they purchase. The budget that Kevin stated was around $800 - $1000. For that price the Grizzly gives you the most bang for your buck. Would the MM16 be better...certainly, but it is also more than double the price, in fact with shipping charges included I think you are getting close to 2.5x - 3x the price of the Grizzly.

So, if you have the cash, the MM16 is the saw of choice, but if you need to stick with something under $1k, give the Griz a serious look. It should satisfy your resaw demands without breaking the bank.

Just my $.02
- Mike

[Dennis McDonaugh]

Mike, I'm not talking about people who have a set budget and want the best saw they can get for their dollar. I'm talking about those who recommend buying a 14" saw because they are just as good as a Laguna or Minimax, just lots cheaper.

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

I really appreciate all the responses to my query. There are many good ideas, and things to consider. I will research the Bandsaw options mentioned, many of which have good points. While I am not a production shop, and this is such an enjoyable hobby for me, I really am not concerned about speed. I just need something that will do the job, even if it takes a little longer. Thanks again for the input, I value everyones opinion, and I thank all for taking the time to post a reply! :D

[Ed Beers]

There has been a great deal of discussion of the differences between the italian machines and the consumer grade asian machines. How do the italian machines stack up again the smaller industrial asian machines?

Some examples:
http://www.sunhillmachinery.com/products/bandsaws/hb500r.asp#specs
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G0506&site=grizzly