What's a fair hourly rate to charge?

[Matt Meiser]

Someone I know from my previous employer contacted me about doing a small woodworking project for them (the company.) When I worked there, I did some work in the IT lab and just did the work as part of my normal working hours and expensed all the materials. Since I no longer work there, I would need to give them a quote, they will issue a PO, then I'll have to bill them when I'm done and get paid. Which also means I'll get a 1099 or whatever at the end of the year.

Since I don't feel I owe them anything I want to get paid fairly for my time doing this, but I don't know what fair? I know that what they technically paid me to do the work when I was there is probably excessive. This isn't a fine woodworking project--it would be painted MDF and poplar.

If they are coming to me because they think I'll be cheap, I plan to apologize and refer them to a couple friends with businesses who could do the work for them--and who I expect will quote them about the same amount if I ask a fair price. I seriously considered doing that in the first place, but decided to tell him I'd at least take a look.

[Peter Quadarella]

Matt, why sell yourself short? Your time is your time, regardless what the project is. I would go with whatever your hourly rate was before.

[Jamie Buxton]

Short answer: as much as you can get. The longer answer is that the going construction and woodworking hourly rates are much lower than the hourly rates for IT work. I'm not saying that's fair; I'm just saying that's the market reality. If you charge IT rates, your price will be much much higher than folks who actually do woodworking for a living. If your employer will stand for it, good on ya. However, if the employer gets another bid, they'll probably go with the other bid.

[Matt Meiser]

Jamie, you are right on--they were paying me as a software engineer, not a woodworker when I did the work while employed there. I know what my hourly wage and actual cost/hour (including benefits and the like) was there and I think the latter is really excessive and the prior is probably excessive. But I don't know what the "going rate" for a woodworker is--billing rate, not hourly wage.

[Rick Fisher]

Charge what the market will bear.. If enough people charge less than the market will bear, the market will start to bear less.

[James Stokes]

Here in Missouri the billing rate for carpenters generally runs between $35 to $50 per hr.

[J.R. Rutter]

When I worked out of my garage years ago, I charged $40 to $50 per hour.

[Matt Meiser]

That's what I'm trying to determine--what will the market bear?

[Lon Schleining]

That's what I'm trying to determine--what will the market bear?

Matt, there's really only one way to test 'the market'. That said, there is no such thing as 'the market', at least IMHO. There's your elderly neighbor who needs a shelf in her pantry, then there's the corporation that needs a new cabinet. Is that the same market?

Would you build the cabinet if the corporation gave you nothing but a piece of peach cobbler in return? No. But would you do so for your elderly neighbor? Of course.

Think in terms of what you would have to pay someone to come and work in your shop as if you were going to hire someone to build this cabinet. Then add 30% for workers comp, etc. Now figure what you'd have to pay to rent an industrial building for your shop. It's easy enough to figure how much per working hour it would cost you. Now add the two and you get a rough idea how much it costs you to be in business. I mean cost; no profit, no taxes, no licenses, no insurance, no nothing added on. It's not very accurate at this point, but it's a start.

Something you have to factor in with each job is how badly they want you to do the job and how hungry you are for work. All of these subjective and objective factors play a part. Since you're an IT guy, build a spread sheet, then put in an 'x' factor for the subjective part.

If you have a good idea what they want, draw it and take the drawing around to two or three cabinet shops to see what they'd charge to build it for you. Then figure installation, painting, etc. etc. Maybe the company would be more inclined to take a bid for the project than hire you by the hour.

What will the market bear? In the end, it's a roll of the dice. Good luck.

[Brad Shipton]

As a start I would look at pieces similar that are available commercially and inflate by 1.5 to 2 times since it is a custom piece. Before formally offering I would make darn sure that this would allow enough time to reasonably produce the piece after taking into account the design, material procurement, build, finish and install if necessary.

Brad

[Richard M. Wolfe]

How bad do you want the job....ie, how willing are you to do the job? You didn't say how long it would take. If it's not going to be a very long or big job and put a good piece of change in your pocket then it may not e worth your while to put up with the paperwork - the 1099 and hassle that goes with it. As to what to charge - fair market, whatever that may be in your neck of the woods. Lotsa help, huh? :rolleyes:

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Matt, what other charge is irrelevant really isn't it? Your price should be what you calculate, not what someone else uses. If someone else can do the exact same quality of work as you, for less, then fine. Do you need the work? I wouldn't work hourly, because of too much gray in billing. Can you just quote the price? $50/hr sounds like it ought to cover your costs.

I tried to do a few projects by the hour several years ago, and I won't do it again. Should the customer pay for a dumbass attack if it takes more time? What if the planning takes forever on the first piece you make, but the second one takes no time at all. Who pays for that? I then went to a three times cost of materials, which worked somewhat, until a hand shaped easel went through the shop. $50 of materials, and 40 hours of work. I then started just quoting a price. Much simpler and more fair to everyone I think. For the record, my newest payment structure is, hours x $300 + materials x 0. I quit woodworking for hire, it took the fun out of it for me.

[Lee Schierer]

Matt, it depends on whther this is your livelyhood or just a side business. If you need to pay your operating costs and benefits from your woodworking then $40-50 per hour would be the minimum. If your benefits are covered by your regular job and you are giving up liesure time to do this then $20-25 per hour should cover it. In addition to your labor, they should pay for all materials plus 10-15% which is normal. This covers you getting the materials and paying for them until you get paid for the job. We pay $70 per hour for journeman pipefitter from a contractor.

[Scott Loven]

What is it worth to you to give up your time to do the project? Do you have more money in your pocket or more free time that you don't have anything better to do with? Would you give up 8 hours on a Saturday for $400? For $600? If you want to do the work, charge what your time is worth to you, or what you think they will pay, which ever is higher.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

What a lot of guys have said~!!

I'll say it my way: "As much as you are worth~!!"

And not a penny less.
And the hell of it is that a thing is worth what you got for it (past tense).


When I'm quoting a rate for my services I contemplate the value of the work to the client, the complexity (as I see it), the probability that it won't go as planned, and the client's ability to pay: all off-set by whether there is repeat business in this client or the possibility of manifold referrals.

I have taken a client on and charged him next to nothing to initiate a suit and to go to court. I anticipated a fair bit of referrals and repeat business. I haven't been burned.

Others I charge my full ride rate of ($ if ya gotta ask you can't afford it $) per hour and bill them in 6 minute increments. But mostly I apply the above formula and come up with something less than the full ride rate.

And it all boils down to what you think you are worth.

Hint hint: Don't be shy and retiring about that.

[Matt Meiser]

I won't do it time-and-materials but I am trying to base my quote on that. What I'll give them will be a fixed price. I could go either way on whether I really want to do it or not. I'm definitely not giving my time away though.

This is what they are looking for. Just a simple box, about 27x26x8 inside, with a wire mesh grill to cover a motorized vent they had installed between a hallway and their computer room. The vent opens and a blower kicks in if the temperature in the room rises abnormally due to A/C failure. It would be painted black to match the window frame the vent is installed through. It would rest on the floor, but be attached to the window frame with 4 pocket screws. They would be visible, but not through the window which is what matters to them. I figure it will take me 1 hour to pick up materials (while I'm out running other errands), 2 hours to build it, 2 hours to paint it, and 1 hour to install it (while I'm up there for other reasons). It won't really take a major time investment since it can be tucked in between doing other things in the shop. It'll probably take $60 in materials. So I'm thinking of telling them I'd need $350 to do the job. If they don't want to pay that, I'm not going any lower though. I figure after taxes I'll probably get ~$200 that will be "play money." But any less and its not worth doing.

[David DeCristoforo]

What's "fair" should not be confused with what you can get. The "going rate" in your particular area can be easily determined by calling a couple of local shops and asking them what they would charge for various work. Also, don't forget that "shop time" is usually going to be considerably higher than the hourly rate you would get for working "in the field". You can charge a premium for your time over what other shops are charging but only if you can justify it by demonstrating a superior end result. In the end, it may come down to what you are willing to work for. When times get tough, the first thing most shops do is start bidding lower to get jobs. This can create a downward spiral that puts shops under faster than just about anything else you could think of.

[Jeff Heil]

While not a big deal with this project's size, you may want to factor wear and tear on your equipment, sharpening planer and jointer knives and sawblades, and consumables including sandpaper, glue fastners etc. I factor these costs into what I charge when building projects for others.