Am I getting screwed at work?

[Michael Donahue]

I just needed to vent and get a second opinion, so thanks for listening. :o

I'm in my mid-20s and was in school for a while but grew fed up with what I was studying and the direction it was taking me. I decided to get a job and figured since I like woodworking, why not get a gig at Home Depot? I was a full time associate there for less than a year (making $11.50/hr and forced to work whatever schedule they give you from 5AM starts to midnight closings). I made a good enough impression to get promoted to a Dept. Sup. in Lumber and Building Materials and they bumped me up to $15.50ish and I've been doing this for over a year now. So keep in mind they seemed to like me there, I know how to run the departments, order product, assist customers, drive the forklift, work in Millwork too (which I had to run with the other 2 departments for a few months at one point). You would think this is a valuable set of skills for your average HD knucklehead employee.

I decided that I wanted to go back to school. Because of their 'full time, full flex' schedule, they couldn't give me a set 2 days off, even though I could work ANY time except Tues and Thurs when I have class. The only way I could get those days off is to go to part time. I told them I would be happy to do the same job, just with out the title 32-40 hrs a week so I could go to school. They told me they would bump me back to my old wage, not even accounting for the annual raises I would have had as a regular associate. This is comparable or even less than many of the new hires make.

I feel kind of screwed, but I don't know if most other businesses do the same thing. I have more skills and experience than 80% of my department, and you think that'd be worth a little more than some guy off the street. I'm also working on a degree in accounting with some concentration in management which can only help me in my supervisory duties.

I feel that the degree can only help me down the road so I don't regret choosing to follow that path, but I don't know what to think about their response. What do you think? Thanks for listening to me ramble! I have to go do some homework;)

[Ben Davis]

You are without question getting the screw. If you are not talking with the store manager at this point, you should be. If that doesn't get anywhere I would be be looking for a different job, possibly at a local lumberyard. I would also highly consider letting your district manager know what's going on just so he's aware. If you go this route, be certain to tell the store manager that you will be notifying his boss. Just because he's screwing you doesn't mean you have to do the same to him. No one likes the blindside.

[Michael Donahue]

You are without question getting the screw. If you are not talking with the store manager at this point, you should be. If that doesn't get anywhere I would be be looking for a different job, possibly at a local lumberyard. I would also highly consider letting your district manager know what's going on just so he's aware. If you go this route, be certain to tell the store manager that you will be notifying his boss. Just because he's screwing you doesn't mean you have to do the same to him. No one likes the blindside.

I've been told that this info came from the district manager and district HR manager (who used to be in my store and I know personally). I'm worried about finding another job because people aren't building like they used too and there aren't that many options close to me as far as lumberyards. I've got insurance and a 401k, and I know my job well which makes me hesitant about leaving to do something totally new as I'm going back to school too.

:(

[mark page]

I feel most companies would do their best to help someone in continuing their education. If the company has the manpower available on staff to cover those days without you, there shouldn't be a problem. Everyone has a boss to answer to (unless you own the joint), and advise yours that you would like to present this proposition to the next level up. It also wouldn't hurt to let them know that you are seeking higher education to further yourself within the company (lie like a dog if you aren't). Also does HD have an education assist program like many companies do??? Be tactful and think out all your approaches, and make them all seem positive to both the company and yourself. Keep your composure and attitude to a professional level when making your point. If no ground is gained, then take it one branch higher up the corp tree.

[Michael Donahue]

I feel most companies would do their best to help someone in continuing their education. If the company has the manpower available on staff to cover those days without you, there shouldn't be a problem. Everyone has a boss to answer to (unless you own the joint), and advise yours that you would like to present this proposition to the next level up. It also wouldn't hurt to let them know that you are seeking higher education to further yourself within the company (lie like a dog if you aren't). Also does HD have an education assist program like many companies do??? Be tactful and think out all your approaches, and make them all seem positive to both the company and yourself. Keep your composure and attitude to a professional level when making your point. If no ground is gained, then take it one branch higher up the corp tree.

They have a tuition reimbursement plan (though it's FAR from covering all the costs involved), but you need to be full time to use it. And to be full time, you can't have a set schedule (even just 2 days off with full flexibility otherwise) which you'd need to go to school. :confused:

[mark page]

Their tuition assist and flex scheduling seems like the tail wagging the dog, so to speak. You can't take advantage of one while complying with the other. Is there a corp hotline you can call anonomously to inquire about the situation? It may be a possibility that your manager does not want to have to "think harder" when scheduling a work week. Good luck.

[Tom Godley]

Whatever the situation is with HD -- GO TO AND STAY IN SCHOOL!

If you can work it out great. If not find another job -- borrow the money -- do whatever -- and never look back.

Nothing is more important than getting an education.

Knowledge is power - and power is opportunity.

[Andy Casiello]

I admit that I may be biased, because I'm a University administrator running a distance learning operation, but one option you might want to consider is taking courses online. There are many degree programs available via distance education, and they are most often the same courses, even the exact same lecture sessions the on-campus students are taking. The are flexible in schedule, understanding that many working adults need that flexibility.

Of course this isn't always the best learning method depending on the type of program you are interested in - but even trades like woodworking have online courses.

This is a bit off-topic from your initial question about how HD is treating you - but I wanted you to be able to consider this option..

Good luck, and congratulations on considering furthering your education! It's the right thing to do.

Andy

[Jim Hill]

I am suprised if that is indeed the corporate policy. If it really is corporate policy, HD is in worse shape than I thought. Sometimes district level employees try to set a policy which may have short term benefits for themselves, without concern for the long term effects. Good or bad employees can have a tremendous impact on sales and profitability, both of which are EXTREMELY important to the shareholders. I have worked retail for 40 years, and a lot has changed. Especially getting and retaining good employees. Some retailers have adopted policies requiring night or weekend shifts.....almost anything but a Mon-Fri 8-5. My experience has been that there are always ways to accomodate an employee in a situation like this; it's just very important that all employees in this type of situation are treated equally. I can't believe that a company would risk losing a valuable employee who is trying to improve him(her)self while at the same time, increasing their potential value to the employer.

Jim

[glenn bradley]

I now understand why most HD employees are boneheads (present company excepted). HD hates education! I have never worked for anyone who was not as flexible as possible when it came to furthering your education.

Whether in a related field or not, education should be supported whenever possible. Your situation has them penalizing you for improving yourself; this is pretty poor community participation at the very least. Going down this road can sometimes buy future grief (like when whoever gets burned on this ends up being your boss) but, if the store manager is not helping, go to HD human resources.

Good luck and don't let them stop you from educating yourself!

[Keith Outten]

Michael,

Quit your job and go back to school full time. If you can't find another part time job then concentrate on student loans and scholarships to pay your bills until your graduate. There will be plenty of time to work and pay back your student loans after graduation and you will be better prepared.

This is the same advice I gave both of my daughters. My oldest is a clinical pharmacist making the big bucks, my youngest is a freshman.
.

[Dennis Peacock]

One thing came to mind reading all this:


"There is wisdom in seeking the counsel of many."

Be smart, go to school, get your education, and then work your way to OWN HD.!!!!! Then you can make it what it needs to be. :D

[Justin Leiwig]

Michael,

Quit your job and go back to school full time. If you can't find another part time job then concentrate on student loans and scholarships to pay your bills until your graduate. There will be plenty of time to work and pay back your student loans after graduation and you will be better prepared.

This is the same advice I gave both of my daughters. My oldest is a clinical pharmacist making the big bucks, my youngest is a freshman.
.


Exactly. This is what I did. The schools usually have a student insurance plan. It wasn't the best insurance, but it kept me alive while I was in school. Being a department manager should translate to any sort of department manager position.

Unfortunately HD, and I know Target are along the same lines. You work when they want you to work, and forget about wanting specific days off. I tried working at target during school. One week I worked 43 hours, the next I worked 7 hours because of computer scheduling.

It went on like that for about a month and I finally had to give up. Ended up working at Discount Tire Co. Best job I ever had in college. I also had about 3 bucks in raises in 45 days. They start you off low but if your hard working and dependable then they advance you fast.

Just some food for thought.

[Jim Becker]

Keith's advise would be my first line, but if that is not practical for economic reasons, then I absolutely second the motion to do an online program. They are not the marginal educational method they might have been in the beginning and every major, well-regarded University offers them in addition to dedicated and accredited online universities like University of Phoenix. (I took some graduate courses at the latter and was very impressed...and that was quite a few years ago. The systems are even better now) In fact, if I were to decide to continue my graduate work, I'd absolutely opt for an online program.

And yes, I believe your employer is being what once would have absolutely been considered totally unfair. (and still is by most of us) Business has changed, however. Employers are in a "buyer's market" due to so many folks being on the street and I'm sure that they figure they can replace you in a split second, despite your experience. They can use this situation to try and "control" your decision...they want to you stay working full time and on their terms.

[Randy Cohen]

the online program sounds like a good choice, especially with the degree you are pursuing, accounting. a 401k is nice but at your age you still have time to save for retirement. i would like to hear what Andy has to say about employment prospects after graduation are for an accounting major who's education was from distance learning. i am a CPA and i find that while you need the degree to be a professional its really the on the job experience that counts.

[John Schreiber]

There are a lot of great suggestions above, and whatever you have to do, go get the education.

But what I've learned one more time from this is that HD is a royal screw up. Every company's greatest asset is its employees and if they don't support those employees and encourage them to grow, the only people there will be people with no motivation and low expectations. (That reminds me of the help last time I was at a HD)

Many companies support any education any employee seeks even if it has nothing to do with their business. They do this because they know that people who are trying to improve themselves are the kind of people they want working for them.

If you possibly can, shake the dust from your feet and move on.

[Mike Cutler]

Michael

Go back to school!
You have a long working life ahead of you. To give you a frame of reference. We just hired several new people your age at work with varying levels of electronic/electrical experience. (Tech school, Navy). Their starting wage was almost twice what you are currently making.

Go back to school.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Michael,

Get the education!

How ever you have to do it......DO IT!

[Eric Larsen]

Get the sheepskin.

But remember your education never really ends. (Or as Mark Twain put it, "Don't ever let school interfere with your education.")

Regardless of your course of study, there is plenty you can do to jump start your education.

If "B.A." is in your future, read these books (because you'll need to read most of them anyway):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Classics

Here is another, more contemporary list of great books to read. "Bluebeard" by Vonnegut is one of my favorites. These are the books you're going to enjoy reading. (As opposed to Dr. Eliot's Five Foot Shelf, where many titles are a hard slog.)

http://artofmanliness.com/2008/05/14/100-must-read-books-the-essential-mans-library/

If "B.S." is in your future, get as many "101" books as you can and read those. There is usually an independent bookstore near campus that sells used copies of Calc 101, Physics 101, Astronomy 101, etc. for a few bucks each.

It's amazing how quickly you can plow through a 101 book if you do it on your own. I prefer doing it this way to a classroom setting.

But get the sheepskin. It will immediately double your income.

Edit: If you haven't already, learn a second language. Make sure it will be useful. I made the mistake of learning German, and I almost never use it. I should have learned Spanish or Chinese, because there's money to be made with those two.

[Bruce Page]

Go to school and see it through. When you're working retail like that, you are always at someone's mercy.

[Lee Schierer]

I would suggest you set down with your Store Manager, not just a meeting on the floor, and carefully review your needs and plans. Set a definite time appointment with him. Before that meeting I would prepare by getting my hands on a copy of the company HR policies and understanding them with regard to the tuition program and work scheduling, Explain to your boss in the meeting your level of committment to the store and present your willingness to work hours on the non-school days of the week so you can stay full time. You can also offer to leave written instructions for the people you were supervising or that will be filling in for you. Since most people want the weekends off, maybe the two school days can be your weekend.

Be as flexible as you can, after all you need this job to hlep pay for your school. Take a hard look at working at least some hours on school days. Hnadling a full time job plus family and classes is a challenge, but most employers have a certain amout of flexability to deal with special situations. Stay calm throughout the meeting and stay on point. Remember burnt bridges are hard to repair.

Added thought: HD is unlikely to be thrilled with paying for your education to work in another field other than at HD. Looking at it from their viewpoint, why should they help you leave and pay you top wage to prepare to leave their employ? What's in it for them?

[Ted Calver]

Do you have a Lowe's nearby? Do they have an educational program? The Lowe's manager might be happy to stick a finger in a competitors eye and get an experienced employee for the cost of a little schedule juggling.

[Al Willits]

Good post Lee.

Did HD have these policies when you hired on?
Not sure if HD is the bad guy here, they have their policies and by hiring on with them you agree to them.

Most companies will promote further education if it helps a employee do their job or help them in advancement, are your asking HD to change their way of doing business so you can ... what..go somewhere else to work or so you can climb their corp ladder??

While I fully agree that continuing education is a major plus, I'd try and work something out, hate to see you get bogged down in student loans and find this new field isn't gonna work for you and then your off to something else with a ton of debt.

No its not fair, but business rarely is, I think it'd be nice if HD did more to help, but I wouldn't count on it.

Either way, good luck picking the right road.

Al

[Matt Ocel]

Man! I'm 46 years old and I can't tell you how it kills me to say this, but here it goes-

If I had a chance to do it all over again, I would have went to college.

There I said it, and it is still killing me!

I have seen it first hand in Construction Management, kids coming out of college, NO experience, I laughed at them when they didn't know the dimensions of a 2 x 4. By the time I was done laughing, they were my boss.

$15 an hour jobs are a dime a dozen.

Get your butt back in school!!!!

[Michael Donahue]

Good post Lee.

Did HD have these policies when you hired on?
Not sure if HD is the bad guy here, they have their policies and by hiring on with them you agree to them.

Most companies will promote further education if it helps a employee do their job or help them in advancement, are your asking HD to change their way of doing business so you can ... what..go somewhere else to work or so you can climb their corp ladder??
Al

My HD has these policies, but I know there are others that are alot more flexible. There is no question that my educational path would help me in my position and just because I would have a degree wouldn't necessarily have meant that I'd tell HD to pound sand and head elsewhere. There's no reason with my time in the company and a degree that I couldn't get an accounting position with the company, I just wouldn't be the guy stacking lumber in the aisles.

Another reason that I'm so frustrated is that there are several other current part timers in my store who used to hold supervisory positions. They took 40 cents from one guy and less than $2 from the other. They're more than likely going to take $4 from me. If that's not getting screwed, I don't know what is :(

Thanks for all the responses folks. I'm glad that the majority of you think school should be #1, because I think that now unfortunately it just took a kick in the pants to get there! :D

[Al Willits]

Sounds like they're not very constant in their policies, hard to deal with that...maybe not a good place to be working while trying to get good grades, like said before, $15 a hour jobs should be out there that have a lot less stress than working for a HD that has the policy of the month.

Doesn't say much for that HD does it?

Al

[Jim O'Dell]

Michael, do what you need to do to get your education. It is hard to go back after you stop. You have the drive to do it, so do it now! I quit my Masters after 1 semester. My wife was in a bad position teaching school in a small town south of Dallas, I drove back and forth to Fort Worth to the Seminary and for work. She ended up quiting mid second semester, and I knew it was coming, so didn't go back for the second semester. I never did go back.
Now, here's the way my mind works. I wonder how they work around all those Olympian's work out schedules??? Those workouts just can't be done when the work schedule permits. (I think I know the answer :rolleyes:) Jim.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

It's also important to get an education while you're still young (in the 20s). As one gets older, it becomes more difficult due to a variety of reasons.

Another option is the military. I have no personal experience, but many of my colleagues at work went that route to get their education from fine institutions as MIT and Boston University.

Good luck,

-Jeff :)

[James Carmichael]

online universities like University of Phoenix.

LOML used to teach for UOP. They are good and very discriminating about their instructors (she had to go through weeks of unpaid training).

But.....they are mucho expensive!

As big as they are, HD may have an educational partnership with a university where you could do some distance learning. Here in TX, all state universities have had to lower their on-campus course requirements from 66 to 44 credit hours. This allows students to complete more coursework at less expensive jucos.

When it comes to education in America today, where there's a will, there's a way. It may not be easy or cheap, but most things worth having aren't.

[Bill Wyko]

Have you called Lowes?:D Tell them your situation, I'm sure they'll take an interest.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

What were you doing before you left school?
I suggest you go do that and return to school full time and forget the BORG. Big chain retail discount houses don't exist to better their employees.
Those companies exist to increase shareholder value and shareholder value is not increased by pouring money into sales staff. At least, not according to any model that works for that sort of business.

If you were living with your parents go do that again and finish with a degree that you can trade on.

I happen to like accounting as a pretty good income generating gig. But, to make a good living at that you gotta go to NYC or Chicago or LA. That's where the big accounting firms are.

Whatever you do reach down real far and get yourself back in school full time at a top fifty school in a program that offers something better than marginal potential for the graduates.

Too many fields are glutted so badly that people end up going into other - disappointing things.

Take law for example. It is so thick with unemployed lawyers that I can hire a young lawyer with a Doctorate and a bar license for less than $-30 grand a year. And at that wage I can take my pick of dozens and dozens of hopefuls.

Compare that to the Lawnmower man who mowes my neighbor's lawn who pulled in over $100-Gees a year under the table~!!

Pick your future very, very carefully. It is damn hard to get a mulligan.

[John Shuk]

Is that really the case Cliff? Can lawyers really be hired that inexpensively? I never thought it was so bad.
I know a few lawn guys like that. Things have been pretty good for them the last few years.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Is that really the case Cliff? Can lawyers really be hired that inexpensively? I never thought it was so bad.

You bet ya~!! Hell, most big city Public Defenders (the best and brightest) are getting about $30 Gees and a lot of prosecutors are getting only $26 Gees.


There is no worse line of work to go into right now in my opinion. Of course this depends on what state you are in. Some are better than others. I'm around the NYC, Philly, & DC area where there are a boat load of law schools cranking out oodles more young lawyers than the market can possibly absorb.

[Randy Cohen]

There are plenty of good paying public accounting jobs that are not in only the big cities. If you work for a public accounting firm be prepared to work many hours in order to be a success. Starting pay for an accounting graduate in Roanoke, VA (near here) is about 45K/year. In the big cities its closer to 55K.
As far as lawyers go, there are many available lawyers out there who have graduated from not so great law schools who have trouble making it as lawyers. But any graduate of a top tier (top 15 in the country) law school with a high class rank will have no trouble getting a very high paying starting salary with a large law firm. High paying=175K/year or better.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

But any graduate of a top tier (top 15 in the country) law school with a high class rank will have no trouble getting a very high paying starting salary with a large law firm. High paying=175K/year or better.


HA~!! I should have gone to SW Virginia~!!
I graduated Rutgers Newark well before the idiots in Trenton consolidated the NJ schools.

Here in Beautiful lovely down town New Jersey, starving lawyers are everywhere.

[Randy Cohen]

HA~!! I should have gone to SW Virginia~!!
I graduated Rutgers Newark well before the idiots in Trenton consolidated the NJ schools.

Here in Beautiful lovely down town New Jersey, starving lawyers are everywhere.
not sure what you are saying there Cliff. What does SW VA have to do with it?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

not sure what you are saying there Cliff. What does SW VA have to do with it?

Well, you said that you were aware of plenty of work and $175K per annum was pretty normal.
Sooooo I assumed you were in SW VA 'cause your "location" pursuant to the Creek's display says SW VA and based on that assumption I assumed you were addressing your local area.

But then you know what the mother of all screw ups is~ ~ ~ ~

[Randy Cohen]

yes i do...i'm very good at that mother. anyway, i didn't mean in SWVA but I was referring to big law firms paying that. none of them around here but in places like New York City and DC and other big cities. but my point was that you would have to graduate from a good law school with a high class ranking. the ones that are starving either went to mediocre law schools or did poorly in a good law school. theres plenty of them and I agree with you about that Cliff.

[Curt Fuller]

I just needed to vent and get a second opinion, so thanks for listening. :o

I'm in my mid-20s and was in school for a while but grew fed up with what I was studying and the direction it was taking me. I decided to get a job and figured since I like woodworking, why not get a gig at Home Depot? I was a full time associate there for less than a year (making $11.50/hr and forced to work whatever schedule they give you from 5AM starts to midnight closings). I made a good enough impression to get promoted to a Dept. Sup. in Lumber and Building Materials and they bumped me up to $15.50ish and I've been doing this for over a year now. So keep in mind they seemed to like me there, I know how to run the departments, order product, assist customers, drive the forklift, work in Millwork too (which I had to run with the other 2 departments for a few months at one point). You would think this is a valuable set of skills for your average HD knucklehead employee.

I decided that I wanted to go back to school. Because of their 'full time, full flex' schedule, they couldn't give me a set 2 days off, even though I could work ANY time except Tues and Thurs when I have class. The only way I could get those days off is to go to part time. I told them I would be happy to do the same job, just with out the title 32-40 hrs a week so I could go to school. They told me they would bump me back to my old wage, not even accounting for the annual raises I would have had as a regular associate. This is comparable or even less than many of the new hires make.

I feel kind of screwed, but I don't know if most other businesses do the same thing. I have more skills and experience than 80% of my department, and you think that'd be worth a little more than some guy off the street. I'm also working on a degree in accounting with some concentration in management which can only help me in my supervisory duties.

I feel that the degree can only help me down the road so I don't regret choosing to follow that path, but I don't know what to think about their response. What do you think? Thanks for listening to me ramble! I have to go do some homework;)

Stay in school, take the pay cut or another job that will work with your work schedule, and concentrate on the school work. Graduate as high in your class as you can, and never look back at HD.

Or, prepare yourself for a life of the above. DAMHIKT