PDA

View Full Version : Natural gas generators?



Bonnie Campbell
09-04-2008, 6:32 PM
Anybody had experience with these? Just got power back today after Gustav hit and we need to get something. A regular gas generator is sort of out of the question (especially when the power is knocked out to the whole city and nobody CAN get gas for 30 miles). With LOML having BAD lung problems we need something dependable. So wanted to check these out.

Ken Garlock
09-04-2008, 8:05 PM
Hi Bonnie.
While I can't give you first hand information, let me suggest that you take a look at Northern Tool (http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_6970_36) company. They carry a wide selection of generators. If you have natural gas at your home, that would be the way to go, IMO. The other gas fuel is propane. Propane has more energy than natural gas, but it has the problem of having to store it on site, where natural gas is already piped to your house.

Good Luck with your hunt.

Ted Calver
09-04-2008, 8:16 PM
Bonnie,
I bought one of the Northern tool generators that runs on three fuels---natural gas, gasoline or propane. Had to buy a special connector for the natural gas for a couple of hundred bucks, but it works grerat and i don't have to worry about stockpiling gasoline.

rob mason
09-04-2008, 8:32 PM
I almost bought a whole-house generator after Katrina. Right before I was ready to purchase, a friend who worked at the local power company came out and "amped" my house - he attached a device at my meter to monitor my Kwh consumption. As it turned out, my Kwh was WAY too much for the generator I was looking at. We found that one of my central A/C units was pulling way too many amps and would have burned-up the new generator. I spent the money on a heat pump and replacing the other A/C with a more economical unit.

I still dont have a whole-house generator, but a portable. Yes, I do have to stockpile gas, but I made the best short-term decision. Earlier this week, Gustav knocked out power for just over 24 hours. My portable generator ran great and the only thing we missed was the A/C. However, now that I'm confident that my house is as efficient as possible, the next thing on our list is a propane-powered generator.

I guess my point of all this is to get a good assessment of your Kwh (min/max/avg) from your power company to make sure you get the best generator for your house.

Hope this helps.

Jim Becker
09-04-2008, 9:14 PM
When I am in the position to do a backup generator (and I want one so that we don't lose water, etc.), it will be natural gas powered since that's underground and from the street...our only utility that is buried. I agree with the above recommendation to look at Northern Tool. Even if you don't buy from them, their selection is very, very broad and you can really check specs across the board before making a decision.

Kevin Arceneaux
09-04-2008, 9:15 PM
Many of the NG can be used with LPG, esp. as you get to the higher end.

As stated above, LPG gives a higher output.

The pro and cons are pretty much covered.

One thing, get an electrician to install it. It has to e done right or it can lead to problems, both for you and for a lineman during an outage.

Neal Clayton
09-04-2008, 9:58 PM
if you want to run your whole house in a hurricane prone area, i think diesel is a much better solution.

a) more rugged engine
b) more efficient
c) not as dangerous to store as gasoline, and you need less of it

my parents got a 14,4000 diesel for their house after katrina. they can run almost a month on a 100 gallon 18 wheel truck tank they have mounted next to theirs, and run everything in the house like they normally do.

Bonnie Campbell
09-04-2008, 10:17 PM
Diesel sounds okay. But I think we need to stick to the natural gas due to neither of us being in any shape for filling tanks.

Kevin Arceneaux
09-04-2008, 10:23 PM
Bonnie, a middle ground diesel you do not need to fill the tank. And many are duel fuel, diesel and NG. They generally use about 20% diesel/80%NG when running.

The only problem with them, esp. if you get a diesel, you need to run them for at least an hour a week. This keeps the seals lubed.

Tom Godley
09-04-2008, 10:31 PM
Unless the power goes out a lot I would not even look at anything that does not use NG or Propane. Other wise you must contend with the fuel storage problems - and additional maintenance on the equipment.

The automatic systems are great and you can get a system that will switch before your main panel -- this way you do not require a new load center. The only problem with this set up is you must have a Generator large enough for the house load or provide a special lock out for some high amp items -- like AC.

But in the south this may be the very thing you want to run.

Your first job is to decide what you must run and then go from that point on size.

Gary Click
09-04-2008, 11:39 PM
We have a NG Onan Generator and Transfer Switch on our house. It has been in place for about 7 years. Natural Gas is great because it is there when you need it and engine maintainence is almost zero. Storing fuel is a problem since gasoline goes stale and diesel tends to collect water. Additionally, a generator can go thru a couple of hundred gallons of fuel in four or five days of constant running.

Stationary units also tend to be quiter and longer lived. My 7.5KW Onan runs at 1800RPMs and the unit weights 1200#. (It was an eBay gloat). The unit will start and run with the entire house load (4500 sqft) with the exception of the AC, range and dryer.

The Transfer Switch also helps because it can be set to exercise the unit once a week. This keeps the alternator dried out and the engine fresh so it starts every time.

The unit I have came out of a medical unit and has a fast start relay. After power fails it will crank and be on line in about 12 seconds. It runs until the power is restored and then automatically shuts down.

Installation is fairly simple and straight forward. The transfer switch is setup with a contactor like a three phase reversing starter. The Line is hooked to one contactor and the generator to the other. These in turn feed a Sub-Panel downstream.

Bonnie Campbell
09-04-2008, 11:52 PM
Well I do know the AC has to run. Hubby was probably 12-24 hours away from me calling an ambulance to haul him to the hospital. Then for the most part I can do without 'extras'. A fridge, freezer and his medical equipment are the other 'gotta haves'. Fortunately I'd ordered up extra tanks of oxygen this time, but the concentrator works better for him. We were out of power for over a week with Rita. He was healthier at that time and we had no problems, but not anymore. I told him 'Come hell or high water, we WILL be getting a NG generator SOON!' Now we're researching the options. So we REALLY appreciate all the input :)

David G Baker
09-04-2008, 11:59 PM
I debated on whether to go natural gas or gasoline. I went with a portable Honda gas driven generator but in your situation Bonnie I would go with natural gas. I do not know what the gas vs natural gas cost is but no matter which way you go there will be quite an expense if your power is out for a long time but with natural gas it will be available and you can always pay when the bill comes.
I did my own electric work and saved a lot of money and was selective as to what has electricity when the utility power goes away. I live in cold country so I need my heater, I am on a well so I need my pump, I have a fridge and a freezer so they are powered. There are a few other outlets that I have supplied power to but if my generator gets any near an overload I can isolate things and only run things as needed. I will not run an air conditioner because of the high current drain and can possibly over load my generator.

curtis rosche
09-05-2008, 5:28 PM
i heard some where that a deisel is better than the lp or gas ones because it creates more torque and can get goin quicker or something like that, dont know how true it is.

we have a lp generator. with the big white tank beside it, 1000gallons?, it will run for 3 days on a full tank, i think,. we have it set up to do the ecentials, cofee pot, stove AC, fridges, heater, 1 light circut in every room in the house, the bigger rooms like the family room have 2. works well. always have the AC

curtis rosche
09-05-2008, 5:30 PM
i heard some where that a deisel is better than the lp or gas ones because it creates more torque and can get goin quicker or something like that, dont know how true it is.

we have a lp generator. with the big white tank beside it, 1000gallons?, it will run for 3 days on a full tank, i think,. we have it set up to do the ecentials, cofee pot, stove AC, fridges, heater, 1 light circut in every room in the house, the bigger rooms like the family room have 2. works well. always have the AC on, we didnt have it on, thinking that power only goes out in the winter, then it went out on the hottest days of summer

David G Baker
09-05-2008, 11:42 PM
Curtis,
Is your tank size correct(1000 gallons) and is it correct that you only get 3 days out of a 1000 gallon tank of LP? That is a very large expense with the cost per gallon of LP being above $2.00 and heading for $3.00 in my area of Michigan. I get 14 hours of use out of my gasoline powered generator that puts me in the neighborhood of less than $90 for 72 hours of power.

David Freed
09-06-2008, 8:30 AM
LP tanks are normally filled to no more than 80% capacity, but still, 800 gal would cost close to $2000 dollars. That is a whale of an electric bill for 3 days!!
I am guessing you have a smaller tank. There should be a tag on the tank (legal requirement) stating what size it is among other things.

Diesel engines are much more suitable for use in high demand situations. That is why they are almost always used in farm tractors, semi-trucks, and large, portable generators (on wheels, not with a handle).

David G Baker
09-06-2008, 10:04 AM
One of the negatives about diesel generators is that generators sit for long periods of time with the same fuel sitting in the tank. Diesel can have problems as was mentioned above. Gas engines can also have problems if the gas does not have additives in it. I have never read about generators having that type of problem when powered by natural gasor LP.
If a generator was going to be used frequently then the best fuel would probably be diesel as David Freed wrote.
Bonnie wrote that her husband may not be physically able to cope with the liquid fuels weight due to his illness so natural gas or liquid petroleum are their only options.