Arrrrrgh!!!

[David DeCristoforo]

<RANT>
I am, at this moment, 300 miles from home, attempting to finalize a kitchen layout with a customer. This is after three weeks of exchanging information via email, faxes, phone calls, etc. So at this point we are supposed to have a pretty good idea of how everything is going to be. But the "actual layout" is still to be decided and we wanted to work that out right there in the room so we could mock things up and really get a feel for how the space was going to work. The first thing I say is "The first thing we need to do is to place all of the appliances. Refers, stove, range, oven, dishwashers, and/or any other appliances you might want. Then we can "drop in" the casework around them. So we do that. Then we spend the next five hours working out the rest of the kitchen. We are on like, the last side of the massive island when the lady says "Oh and I have this oven I want to use. And I want a microwave drawer and a warming oven". So bingo. Three major appliances have to be incorporated into this design which pretty much dumps the whole day into the tank. Then she says "I have a list of all the appliances I want. Let me go get it". Then she spends an hour rummaging through boxes of papers looking for this list I had asked for right at the outset. Her husband looked ready to cry. It seems that this is "business as usual" for this project which is already almost a year and 40% over budget. So I guess I can take some comfort in the thought that I'm not the only one. I figured this was God's way of testing my resolve not to smoke. Today, I'm spending another day trying to get this nailed down. If I hear the word "French" (as in "Oh that looks very French" or "They are all doing French now") one more time, I'm gonna scream!
</RANT>

[David G Baker]

If it was me and I didn't have a lot of money already invested in the project I would take a walk and let the "lady" get what she wants from another source. From my experience this is just the beginning of the worst nightmare you have ever had, I hope not but sometimes horror stories do come true.
Your situation is one of the major reasons I do not like dealing with the public on a frequent basis.

[Al Willits]

I'm with David G on this one, havn't done any woodworking jobs, but being in the HVAC business, I've run into enough flaky customers that for jobs I used to do on the side, if they were flaky when we first met, I'd pass as it almost always got worse.

Last one I dealt with called me about 12:30 at night and wanted to know how to change their furnace filter.....first time in almost 2 years.

Either way good luck

Al

[Brian Effinger]

I feel you pain, David. I do houses and additions on the side and I used to do them in the office, and I've had a lot of Arrrrgh!!! moments - in fact, way too many. Sometimes these people just make me want to scream and slap them around some.

[Heather Thompson]

David,

Run, do not walk to your truck! If you are a compassionate person bring the husband with you, he will pay your gas and any other expenses you have encurred and smile in the end. I have done work for people that are a few cards short of a full deck, never again, my own sanity is more valuable than that. Try to enjoy the drive home. ;)

Heather

[Greg Cole]

I like Heathers idea.. have the husband drive.... so ya can have a beer on the ride! :D
Did you finalize the layout in a FRENCH motif? ;)
I deal with some folks at my day job that work on machines of 100's of thousands of dollars.... their skill set emcompasses slip joint pliers & a hammer with electrical trouble shooting skills on par with "the smoke musta been let out".... "tap on it with a hammer to see if that'll make it work again". "I opened the control panel and water poured out, why won't the machine run?".
Every source of employ has its sources of frustrations, the best thing to just let it out sooner than later.

Cheers.
Greg

[Lee Schierer]

Assuming you stay with this job I would highly recommend recording the conversations or at the very least when you get home write a detailed note to her stating exactly what you understood she wnated for each and every item. Then in the final paragraph note that changes fromthis point forward will be on a cost plus basis. Otherwise as others have pointed out this could be the beginning of a long nightmare. She may be suffering from or will develop a severcase of selective memory loss and you will be the poorer for it.

[John Schreiber]

Everyone has something to teach us . . .

some only teach us patience.

[Dennis Peacock]

Yea, and some only teach us "French". :rolleyes:

Sorry, just had to mention "French" one more time. :D

[Greg Cole]

Yea, and some only teach us "French". :rolleyes:

Sorry, just had to mention "French" one more time. :D

Je parle une petite peut de Francais aussi.
I don't speak much FRENCH these days, but spending @ 25 years within an hour of the Quebec border... FRENCH was useful when I lived in Vermont.
There's a couple more uses of the dreaded word for ya Dennis & Yoshi.:D

[Glenn Clabo]

If it wasn't for the need to make a living...you could act like the little piggy and...We...We...We...all the way home.
(sorry...it's already been a long day)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I can only think of two French words that apply in this case...


Au revoir! or Adieu!


Good luck David!

[Steve Clardy]

I'm over halfway into a cabinet job that's been going on for 3 months now.

I have had 4 major changes.

The first one totally screwed a 12' wall of uppers and lowers that I already had built in the shop. They decided they wanted the frig moved 2' to the right.:rolleyes:

That screwed a weeks worth of work, $800.00 added to the job, plus another week of redoing those cabinets.

I have a 6 panel cherry frig panel sitting here and no earthly idea as to what to do with it. Its in the way, too valuable for firewood.....

I'll be glad when its done.

[Randy Cohen]

just bill it.

[Glenn Clabo]

I have a 6 panel cherry frig panel sitting here and no earthly idea as to what to do with it. Its in the way, too valuable for firewood.....

Huh...Steve...do you remember your old buddy here in RI.;);););)

[Anthony Anderson]

I'm with the rest David. Drop this client, and fast. This will continue to be a headache. She will want constant changes, and done for nothing, as "you are already charging a premium fee". Not worth it! Drive 300 miles to meet with a client who does not value your time? You know what you should do! Refund any deposit, minus your initial investment of time, and travel expenses, and excuse her as a client. Good Luck, Bill

[Brian Effinger]

Assuming you stay with this job I would highly recommend recording the conversations or at the very least when you get home write a detailed note to her stating exactly what you understood she wnated for each and every item. Then in the final paragraph note that changes fromthis point forward will be on a cost plus basis. Otherwise as others have pointed out this could be the beginning of a long nightmare. She may be suffering from or will develop a severcase of selective memory loss and you will be the poorer for it.

That's a very good suggestion. On commercial jobs, when we have construction meetings, meeting minutes are always taken, and they have saved my you know what on more than one occasion. After typing them up after the meeting, they'll be emailed to all of the attendies, and if anything ever comes up (or you want to justify more money from the client) you can whip them out and say here you go, it's in black and white.

[David DeCristoforo]

Whew! Back home after two days of wasting time. Left the customer wit a list of 12 items hat had to be decided upon before I will go back. Just "small stuff" like if there's going to be 36" or 48" range, if there's one dishwasher or two, etc. I basically told them that we were wasting our time at the rate we were going and that I would not come back until they could make some decisions. So I kind of took everyone's advice and walked out on the thing but I still have the job (don't want to blow off any work right now). The thing I'm really concerned about is that this is looking like one of those situations where they are trapped by expectations and will never be satisfied because no matter how much they get, it will never be enough. But I figure as long as I can get most of the dough before they figure out that it's not enough, I should be OK....

[Terry Achey]

Hi David,

Sounds like this is in that category of "all in a days work" when dealing direct with the public. My suggestion would be to stay calm, but insist that the client initial and date all drawings (even hand skecthes)that were agreed to and then initial and date again any and all modifications. Also, make it very clear upfront that any and all changes will be billed at cost plus standard CO markup (15% to 25%). Lastly, keep your rate high enough to maintain their attention and make enough profit to compensate for the "aarrrggh" factor. Although it can be frustrating, it can also be quite profitable as long as all changes are accounted for and documented. It's amazing how those intitaled drawings and statements eliminate confusion.;)

Oh yeah... don't forget to bill monthly. :D

Good luck and stay the course.
Terry

[Jim Becker]

David, just make sure they physically sign off on everything...CYA. And hopefully, your payment schedule is such that they can't hold too much back if there are any arguments about what they signed off on.

[Kevin Arceneaux]

Like Brian stated, when they want to change things, write up a change order and email it to them and request a YES/No response. This way you have it in writing and there can be few questions later. Assign each change order/request a number for tracking purposes.

My Project Manager and the QC Manager on my project do this and it saves a lot of headache later.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I am pretty sure that within a couple miles (maybe 10) of where you are there is a place where you can buy a shotgun.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...there is a place where you can buy a shotgun..."

Hummm. Well, I might wait a bit on that. But for sure, everything will be documented and approved in writing. That's a foregone conclusion for me even with the most cooperative of clients. And my payment schedule is always such that I have at least 90% before actually handing over the work. The big question right now is if I will be able to get through this project without having to resort to that shotgun.

[M Toupin]

I am, at this moment, 300 miles from home,


Strike #1



attempting to finalize a kitchen layout with a customer. This is after three weeks of exchanging information via email, faxes, phone calls, etc.


Strike #2



So at this point we are supposed to have a pretty good idea of how everything is going to be. But the "actual layout" is still to be decided


Strike #3



Then she says "I have a list of all the appliances I want. Let me go get it". Then she spends an hour rummaging through boxes of papers looking for this list I had asked for right at the outset.


strike #4



It seems that this is "business as usual" for this project which is already almost a year and 40% over budget.


Strike #5

Look at your own words, you already know the answer.

Listen....

Do you hear that???

It's the local guys laughing, they all passed on this job for a reason! The same reason she had to go 300 miles outside here area to find someone to work with her...

Run now... There's only agrivation and heartache down that road.

Mike

[David DeCristoforo]

"...the local guys laughing, they all passed on this job..."

Actually, the local guys are gunning for me because this is literally the only "high end" project in the area right now. I only got it because I have done lots of projects for the owner who is a contractor and this is his own house he is building. Of course, in the past, I never had to deal with his wife!

[Chris McDowell]

Ah... the joys of trying to run a shop in todays economy. I just turned one down two weeks ago. The lady had decided on everything and was ready to sign the contract. Until the last meeting in which she decided she really hadn't made any decisions, and the Amish sure make nice cabinets. I have transportation problems with them but they are cheaper she said. Thankfully I got a call for the job I start on Monday so I told her best of luck and never looked back.

Sometimes you make more money walking away than staying. But it's tough to blow off any work now.

[Eric Larsen]

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/3346/gomezmorticiacopyth8.jpg

I wish I'd thought of this yesterday!


http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gomezmorticiacopyhb0.jpg

[Brian Effinger]

The thing I'm really concerned about is that this is looking like one of those situations where they are trapped by expectations and will never be satisfied because no matter how much they get, it will never be enough. But I figure as long as I can get most of the dough before they figure out that it's not enough, I should be OK....
I think you hit the nail on the head there. And after you get paid, she'll just keep calling. Of course if this will get you more work from the husband, and you never have to see the wife again, just grin and bear it.

[Jim Becker]

But I figure as long as I can get most of the dough before they figure out that it's not enough, I should be OK....

The one issue with that is that you indicated that the fellow is a builder and that you do work for him. If things go sour in his personal residence, how will that affect your other business with him?

[David DeCristoforo]

" If things go sour in his personal residence, how will that affect your other business with him?"

This is probably good time for me to haul out one of my favorite sayings..."Hope for the best but prepare for the worst." Actually my bet is on that my relationship with this guy will serve me well. We have done a lot of jobs together and he is well aware that his old lady has gone off the deep end here. So there is at least a hope that we will all survive. If not... well, we all gotta go sometime right?

[Jim Becker]

David, if you have a good relationship with this guy, can you meet him for lunch or breakfast or something and "collaborate" upon a solution to the, umm...problem??

[Ken Fitzgerald]

David, if you have a good relationship with this guy, can you meet him for lunch or breakfast or something and "collaborate" upon a solution to the, umm...problem??


Jim......Using a little "Corporate speak" .....I'm sure you meant "Opportunity"?

[Jim Becker]

Good point, Ken. Perhaps David can suggest a very good divorce lawyer?? :D :D :D

[David DeCristoforo]

"... a very good divorce lawyer??"

Or a priest?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

"... a very good divorce lawyer??"

Or a priest?

I don't know that there are many priests around that perform exorcisms David.:confused:

In French of course!:D