Different kind of Domino @ $249.99

[Dave Lehnert]

On the cover of the new Woodcraft catalog they have a new Loose Tenon jig by JessEm Called "Zip Slot Mortise Mill." Woodcraft item number 149197. Uses a drill. Not too sure how it works. Looks interesting.

http://www.woodcraft.com/images/products/149197.jpg

[Johnny Kleso]

Wow thats pretty awesome looking and they price is good too..

I wonder if it has any limits as yo how thick the wood can be or where you can use it..

[Greg Cole]

I didn't look long, but the Jess'em website doesn't even mention it?

Greg

[David Eisan]

They are shipping. I have 40 in stock...

David.

[Dan Lee]

I was just looking at that. What powers it.

[Jacob Mac]

I am in the market for a dowelmax. I was just about ready to put up a want ad for one, and now you show me this. Now I will have to go and do some more research. It looks intersting if it is machined well.

[Steven Bolton]

It is powered by an electric drill (cordless or corded) according to the ad. That in deed is an interesting device.

Steve Bolton

[Dave Lehnert]

I was just looking at that. What powers it.

A cordless or corded hand drill. Have to see that to give an opinion.

[Mike Heidrick]

Looks interesting.

[Eric Larsen]

Hey! Where were all of you before when I posted the exact same thing! :cool:


Anyone tried one yet?

[Dave Lehnert]

Hey! Where were all of you before when I posted the exact same thing! :cool:


Anyone tried one yet?


What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas I guess. LOL!!!!

[Tim Sproul]

an FMT knock-off than a Domino knock-off.

This Zip thing (I don't think the marketers were awake....would you ever want a quality tool to have any name resemblance to the infamous rotoZip!!????) looks like it is made primary to mortise rails, stiles, legs and such. It doesn't look especially adapted to handle making mortises in the middle of panels.

Disclaimer - I do own a rotoZip but the only thing it gets used for is what it was originally designed for - cutting drywall.

[Eric Larsen]

As I mentioned in my previous post, I think a week ago: :rolleyes:

"I don't see how a cordless, spinning at appx. 1100 rpm is going to match the cut of a 25K rpm Domino."

Now I'm all for saving money -- look at the majority of my posts. But quality always trumps price for me. This is a tool I would need to try (or read a few STELLAR reviews) before I buy.

[Scott Rollins]

I wonder if you could use a laminate trimmer with it instead of a drill?

[John Myer]

On monday I sent JessEm an email asking for more information about the Zip Slot Mortise Mill. As of yet I have not received a reply. It seems to me that their marketing is lacking. They should have produced a web based video so we would all know more about the new device.

As it relates to interest in the Dowelmax by an earlier reply, as of tuesday the new price is $310. Now I know Dowelmax gets great reviews and is the best dowel jig ever, but $310! Does a prices ever get so high that for non-essential items that people stop buying?

[Greg McCallister]

I notice that there is a pocket verson for $99.00 called the JessEm Pocket Zip Slot Mortise Mill on the same page at woodcraft.

[Greg Cole]

Looks like you are rather limited to mortise size too unless there's alot more to this gizmo that I am seeing-reading. 1/4" & 3/8" were the only sizes IIRC.

Greg

[Greg McCallister]

looks like you can get a kit to go up to 1/2"

[Aaron Beaver]

Looks very interesting, would like to find out more about it.

[Curt Harms]

I wonder if you could use a laminate trimmer with it instead of a drill?

That is what would give it possibilities to me. I can't see how a router bit look-a-like is going to work at drill speeds. Domino could certainly use some competition, I don't know if this is it. I agree, a web based video would go a very long way toward dispelling doubts (or not:rolleyes:)

[Dave Lehnert]

Bump to the top.

Any new info on this?

[Brian Backner]

My one concern with this gadget is that it uses a hand-held drill for powering the bit. While drills are great at drilling holes, their bearings are not designed/speced for handling side thrust loads.

I tried one in a ShopBot CNC router when my PC router died in the middle of a job. Even after slowing down the feed rate to account for the lower rpm of the drill, the bearings overheated and seized after about six feet of cut.

Granted, this doodad will only be used for short (< 3-4" mortises), but I would suggest stockpiling a few sets of bearings if you're planning on cutting more than a few dozen mortises.

Brian

[Rob Wright]

Brian - I agree that a drill's bearing would have problem with side forces on them, but the bit in this case should be experiencing all of the side forces since it is guided and moved through the pressed bushing on the jig. The drill would be merely providing the vertical force and the spinning of the bit - a person would be just holding onto the drill and letting the guide do the work of applying the lateral forces to the cutting bit. Therefore there should be no undue wear to the drill - it think that it is still drilling. My $0.015 anyway :D

I agree that there needs to be a video of this thing in action - who's going to be the first to purchase and be the guinea pig?:)

[Mike McCann]

I checked one out at my local woodcraft in Cincy. The machine looks to be well made but it looks like you will need three hands to work it. One to hold the piece of wood and the machine steady one to move the lever back and forth and one to hold the drill.

[Peter Quinn]

I like Jessum, they make good tools. i like their router lift. If this thing works they have pulled off a great coup and are offering some wood workers an interesting option at a good price. If its bunk, they will need good attorneys and a place to hide, possibly a new company name.

From the looks of it it could go either way. I'm curious not as a potential buyer but as a tool junkie and general curious jerk to know how well it works in operation. It looks like a PC door mortising jig but tiny.

Wondering why a company that cut its teeth making router lifts made a jig for mortising that uses a drill for a motor? A housing for a bosch colt motor should would look good on that tool!:D

[James White]

Woodcraft has put up a video of the Zip Slot in action. Looks good. My concern would be that once that drill bit gets a little mileage on it. It would be a very slow go. Needs a router as others have suggested.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=21034&mode=videos#tabs

James

[Bill Huber]

Woodcraft has put up a video of the Zip Slot in action. Looks good. My concern would be that once that drill bit gets a little mileage on it. It would be a very slow go. Needs a router as others have suggested.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=21034&mode=videos#tabs

James


Thanks, that really looks great and I think I will have to get one.

[Mike Cutler]

Interesting jig/tool.
I have a couple of JessEm products, the Mast-R-Slide, and one of their miters. Great tools, and built like tanks. I'm sure this is made equally as well.

A few thoughts/observations.

Looks like the side load on the drill bearings problem is taken up by the bearing in the jig, it's seeing all of the lateral force.

At first I thought they were using a standard twist drill bit, and was wondering how they were cutting with the edges of a twist drill flute. The bit for it looks like some type of a milling machine bit.

I think at a comparable cost to a benchtop mortiser, it may be a little tough to get a lot of folks to buy into it. For the person really constrained for shop space it could be an ideal solution though. Portable too.
I don't have any intention of purchasing one, I already have a mortiser, but I wouldn't discount it's effectiveness in the right situation, for the right person.
At 45+ seconds of run time on the drill, in the video, per mortise. I might try a corded drill If I had a bunch to do.
I would like to see how deep of a mortise it could cut. Thickness and width are only part of an M&T joint. The length of the tenon is a pretty important element of the joint.

It's an interesting item. I'll have to check it out next time I'm in Woodcraft.

[Matt Ocel]

Somebody better buy one, and quick!

[Lon LeBlanc]

John,

I bought my DowelMax last year at the old (Gulp!) price of $270, and it really does a wonderful job. My very early woodworking days were spent with an old Stanley #59 and some dowel markers. I just happen to like doweling a lot more than biscuits and WAY more than pocket screws. I guess I'd opt for the $310 if I were in the market today.

And, I see that Jacob Mac is thinking of posting a "want ad" for a DowelMax. Probably not going to happen. Before I bought mine, I poured through CL and wrote many sellers of tools asking if they had one. Nada! People seem to buy one and then keep it for handing down to the grandchildren as part of the estate.


Lon

[Dave Lehnert]

Woodcraft has put up a video of the Zip Slot in action. Looks good. My concern would be that once that drill bit gets a little mileage on it. It would be a very slow go. Needs a router as others have suggested.

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=21034&mode=videos#tabs

James

James!

Thanks for the link.
I would think a small trim router would be better than a drill. How would a drill hold up under such use?????

[John Lucas]

Where do I start. I just finshed reading the User Manual. Pretty easy. Tomorrow I will find room on the bench and make my first mortises with it. As usual, Jessem machined a beautiful product
I will have several pages of how-to on the website this weekend. Also on the bench, or router table, is the new Pinnacle (Woodpecker) lift with the thumbwheel. Anther beautifully machined product. I think we are all very lucky tohave these types of new products by companies that really care about us.

[Glenn Howard]

I think we are all very lucky tohave these types of new products by companies that really care about us.

I agree with you, although I think they care more about our disposable income than anything else :D

[Brad Townsend]

It is interesting to contrast the generally positive tone of this thread with the negative tone of a thread on this tool in another forum. In that thread, most of the posts were from people who had watched the demonstration video and concluded that, while probably very well well made (Jessem has a great reputation), the tool appeared to be a rather slow, tedious way to cut a mortise.

It made me wonder if the overall tone of a "review" thread, positive or negative, is determined by the first few postings?

[Mike Cutler]

It made me wonder if the overall tone of a "review" thread, positive or negative, is determined by the first few postings?

Brad

I think it also has a lot to do with how open minded people can be to a new idea or concept.
Being critical and negative is easy. Looking past our personal bias is always more difficult.

It also helps that John Lucas seems excited about the tool.;),:cool:

[Chris Padilla]

It also helps that John Lucas seems excited about the tool.;),:cool:

Yep, Mr. Lucas has "sold me" a buncha tools and I've loved every one of them. He introduced F to me and it was all "downhill for the bank account" after that but I've enjoyed the thrilling ride!! :D

[Douglas Brummett]

That is a cool little gizmo. I watched the video yesterday. I have other tools for mortise, but if I didn't that would be one slick solution. I too had the drill bit longevity thought.

[Larry Fox]

I watched the video and while it seems like a nifty gizmo a couple of things occured to me;

1) Drill does seem like a strange choice for driving the business part. Seems like a router would have been a better choice.
2) Don't know how it will hold up over the long haul. I have their mini-sliding-table and love it so no knock on Jessem but the guy doing the demo really seemed to need to horse the handle toawards the end of the cut. My fear would be that it would get "loose" after a while. Sure, the guy was cutting hard maple but he also only cut two.
3) Same question as earlier poster about depth.
4) Why did he need to use so much effort to remove the bit at the end of the cut but didn;t seem to when putting it in. This makes me wonder if it effectively clears the chips. If not you might go through bits pretty fast.

OP suggests an association with or an alternative to the Domino. I think that the comparason ends with their both cutting a oblong hole in wood.

[Scott Rollins]

After watching the video I think the tool would work better than most shop made jigs. I also don't see any possibility of side loading on the drill end. The bearing which holds the bit is quite tight by the looks of it. It is definately something to consider. I still think a small laminate trimmer would be a better tool than the drill if the bit has a carbide tip. If it does not have a carbide tip the speed of a laminate trimmer would burn up the high speed steel in short order.

[Steven Bolton]

The way I read Woodcraft's policy and catalog, it appears you can buy just about anything, try it and return it if not satisified. Does anyone disagree with that? I could be reading something into it.

Steve Bolton

[Chuck Tringo]

It does look interesting, but I bought a Dowelmax last year as well and will stick with that for my quickie joinery. One negative I see about that mortiser is that its made for you silly right handed folks, and would be backwards for us lefties. :cool:

[Jacob Mac]

John,

I bought my DowelMax last year at the old (Gulp!) price of $270, and it really does a wonderful job. My very early woodworking days were spent with an old Stanley #59 and some dowel markers. I just happen to like doweling a lot more than biscuits and WAY more than pocket screws. I guess I'd opt for the $310 if I were in the market today.

And, I see that Jacob Mac is thinking of posting a "want ad" for a DowelMax. Probably not going to happen. Before I bought mine, I poured through CL and wrote many sellers of tools asking if they had one. Nada! People seem to buy one and then keep it for handing down to the grandchildren as part of the estate.


Lon


I don't want to sidetrack the thread, but my experience was that there were not any used Dowelmax units. I ended up buying a used biscuit jointer and a new mortiser from a guy getting a divorce.

I went to the Woodcraft in Kansas City to look at the Jessem mortiser, and there were not any in stock. But the sales associate I spoke to was not that impressed. I pushed him for reasons why, and he didn't have anything specific. So I couldn't really find out anything about the product.