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View Full Version : Any tricks for spacing lettering on larger signs?



Bob Cole
08-31-2008, 4:33 PM
I'm doing a 10" X 5' (10 inch x 5 feet) indoor sign that I am placing 1/16th cut acrylic letters on. The sign will read "EXIT TO LOBBY ^" on one side with nothing on the other (the carat is an up arrow). The lettering is 4" tall using Helvetica.

It may seem simple to you but I'm struggling with the spacing and template to place on the substrate.

I thought it would be fairly straight forward for the spacing but if I type in Corel using the different paragraph options (justified, etc) the spacing doesn't look quite right.

Once figure out the spacing, I need to create a template to place on the sign or some method to keep the letters where they are suppose to be. All the items I've done so far have been small and can fit in my laser to do a paper template.

Frank Corker
08-31-2008, 4:58 PM
I think I'll leave this one for Joe to answer.

Scott Shepherd
08-31-2008, 5:34 PM
Bob, I'm not sure I understand the spacing issues, but I recently did one of those and made a template for placement. I'll be in the office later today or in the morning at the latest and I'll send you the files for the template I made so you can see how I did it. It certainly wasn't the easiest way, I'm sure, but it worked really well for me and I'll be happy to show you what I did.

Scott Shepherd
08-31-2008, 7:54 PM
Sent you a PM Bob. Let me know if that makes any sense.

Joe Pelonio
09-01-2008, 12:48 AM
I don't understand the spacing issue either. As for the pattern, use paper in the laser even if it's too big. All you have to do is use the knife tool to break it into pieces that will fit your machine then tape them together. For those with a plotter its easier to use a pen plot mounting tape.

Bob Cole
09-01-2008, 1:53 AM
Sorry. I will try to be a little clearer.

I am really trying to match the spacing that was on the sign prior to me getting it. I took the original lettering and measured. It appears to be standard Helvetica. When I measured the spacing between the lettering and compare to what I can do within Corel, the spacing between letters and the space between the lettering is off. The space between letters were further than the standard space (just typing in Corel). I thought using a justified option would resolve but still didn't.

Here are the measurements that I came up with.

Original sign:
7 5/8" (space) "READING ROOM" 7 5/8"
space between letters .75", spacing between G and R 4.5"
Letters 4" tall, about 3.5" wide


This could be my AR tendancies but I know signs have to have the correct spacing to read from different distances so that is why I want to make sure I get the spacing right.

Is there a formula you follow when you need to have a sign read from a certain distance to know what the lettering height should be and the spacing between the lettering? Since I know the lettering height on the old sign was 4", I should be able to duplicate the spacing, but all the different options I"ve chosen don't match up. I can get it close, but want to make sure it matches the rest of the signs and doesn't look odd when people walk up the hall.

When centering on the sign, when you have a mix of text and graphic (arrow) what is the best method to make sure the centering is correct? Normall, I would left justify the text and right justify the arrow but the spacing issue above is causing me pain.

Unfortunately, I don't have a plotter and am working within the confines of my laser bed of 18"x 32". Once I get the spacing issue figured out, I can work on the template for placing the letters on the sign. I figured I could convert to curves, cut out paper and letters in the correct shape and tape together. Wasn't sure if there were any tricks.

Bob Cole
09-01-2008, 2:09 AM
Thanks Steve for the PM. That does make sense. Fortunately, I only have to deal with length instead of dealing with both length and height. This does help a lot. I wouldn't have thought to put the notches for the adjacing pieces to match up with.

I'm wondering if whoever made the original sign typed the wording, converted to curves, then drag the lettering until it "looked right". I wouldn't be able to accurately recreate this unless I knew what size of the font they started out with.

I'm probably just analyzing this too much.

Rodne Gold
09-01-2008, 2:56 AM
For letter spacing , use the kerning option in Corel , click on the ine of lettering with the shape tool and you will see you can kern individial letter or the whole line very easily.
Print the lines or sign out and then do it by eye , draw a baseline in pencil and be aware the some letters like S and O go below the baseline , draw the baseline in your printout so you can see which letters go below.

Bob Cole
09-01-2008, 3:25 AM
Rodne,

I think you got it. Using the Kerning feature (which I've never used before), I was able to get the text spaced similar to the previous sign. I changed the formatting to "center" and adjusted the Kerning percent.

Is there a rule of thumb for letter height, spacing, and distance to be viewed from? I'm much more of a formula guy so knowing what looks right is harder for me than using a formula and computing a result.

Rodne Gold
09-01-2008, 3:52 AM
Kerning is more a "what looks right" thing than a formula thing , albeit I think there are "formulae"
In terms of looking right , letters that follow each other like AW , will look better if they are closer together so the W encroaches into the A space.
My take on sign layout and kerning is that if it looks right , it is right.

Dee Gallo
09-01-2008, 9:01 AM
I don't understand the spacing issue either. As for the pattern, use paper in the laser even if it's too big. All you have to do is use the knife tool to break it into pieces that will fit your machine then tape them together. For those with a plotter its easier to use a pen plot mounting tape.


Joe - I've done the same thing, but I just slide the "too big" image around, since whatever is hanging over the page will not print anyway. Easier than cutting it up. You still have to tape the pieces together of course.

martin g. boekers
09-01-2008, 11:07 AM
I do signs on base quite a bit and sometimes I've been given more characters than fit in the space. If they need to have them a certain hight or width, I take that hight or width as needed then compress it in from the sides or the top as needed.

If I'm trying to match what was created before, I do my best to match the font and the hight. After I figure that out, I type exactly what was done before and the decide whether I need to compress or expand the type to make it the same size as previously done or go into the text menu, format, and work with spacing between the words, the characters or the lines.

(This comes in handy also on perpetual plaques when I'm trying to match the previous layout.)

After all this is decided I go to the arrange menu and select break apart artistic text this separates the words. I do that again and this separates the letters. Now I can drag and rotate the letters into positions to make better use of the acrylic I am cutting.

In positioning the letters in your case since you only have a few words
I'll made a box around each word and center the word to the box then cut that with the letters. I then can set that into position on the board and line up the bottom of the "boxes" .
One thing you have to watch for when centering to the box is if there are any letters in some of the words like a lower case "g" that's tail may go beneath the type line. This may cause your centering to the box to be off.

Then with adhesive on the back of the letters I put them into the "letter" space that was cut out. Then after the adhesive sets remove the box carefully to leave the letters in place. I find this saves me more than enough time to pay for the extra acrylic and makes a nicer presentation

Marty

Mike Null
09-01-2008, 12:27 PM
There are several ways to kern letters. The easiest is to select the word with the shape tool and you'll see two handles, one with vertical arrow the other with horizontal. In your case take the horizontal handle and stretch the word to the width you want.

You can also individually kern letters without converting to curve simply by selecting the small white box next to each letter with the shape tool and moving it where you want it.

You can also use the text tool with its various options.