Trex for a Deck?

[dennis thompson]

I'm planning on building a deck of man made, hopefully maintenance free material. I've heard some bad things about Trex, has anyone had any experience with Trex or any other man made material in building a deck?
Thanks
Dennis

[Howard Acheson]

What have your heard "bad" about Trex? I built my front porch floor and my rear deck using Trex here in coastal North Carolina. In the almost six years of use, I have not done anything more than an annual quick power washing. It's held up very well and it's quite popular here.

Just be sure to follow the manufacturers directions and specifications for installation. You can get them at their website.

[Clifford Mescher]

Been reported by many that it gets very hot in sun and makes bare feet very uncomfortable. Clifford

[David G Baker]

Dennis,
From what I have read about Trex it has a 10 year guarantee. I used a product called Trimax on some of my California deck. Trimax has a 50 year guarantee. Trimax is a recycled plastic mixed with fiberglass. It is solid like wood and not like a lot of the newer plastic deck products that are hollow. It is as strong as lumber and can support the same load with the same amount of span. It will not rot and is used in areas where wood rod is a high risk. I haven't priced it in 10 years or checked on its availability but you can do a Google and do your own research.
The only negative that I can say about it is it is hot to walk on with bare feet and once in a while some of the fiberglass fibers raise from the boards.
The product was readily available in California but since I moved to Michigan if I want it I have to have it shipped to me.

[Paul Girouard]

#1: It's heavy to work with.

#2: Different length planks CAN be slightly different thicknesses, (close to 1/8 to 3/16" ) so I avoid , IF possible, butt joints by getting 20' stock. OR figure in some waste IF the deck requires longer than 20' material.


#3: We generally gap it to the wider space using the Trex spacers. The narrow spacing seems to , over time , close up just a bit to much and the deck CAN become non draining , crap in the cracks , some swelling (or I guess I should say "expanding" of the planks and there you have puddles or a non draining deck.

#4: End spacing we do a small gap , and we ease the end cuts before fastening them down.

#5: The screws we use , trim head S/S tend to "pooch" the Trex a bit , they do sell other types of screw but he boss man likes the trim heads.


This is in the PNW , so warmer climates may have different experiences, I'd think it would expand more where it's warmer, we seldom have 80 deg. days in my area.

So spacing details may vary.

And like most products that say they don't expand , BUT DO , it only gets bigger , thicker , longer. It does NOT act like wood and shrink back. This may or may not be a plus , YMMV , etc, etc.

[Prashun Patel]

I have it on my deck. I like it. Couple things to remember:

1) Nothing is maintenance free. You'll still have to wash it every year; but you won't have to refinish it.

2) If your deck is in a lot of sun, the color will fade. I suggest you buy test board and let it bake in the sun for a year to see if you don't mind the effect.

3) If (like me) your deck gets a lot of shade, then it can develop a moss that must be cleaned with a deck cleaner. This happens to me every 2 years.

4) The railing system looks great, but can develop sags; The recommendation is to limit spans to 4' but I'd do them 36" or less, or add cripples in between the uprights.

5) Each year, the colors and grain patterns get better and better; like Honda and Toyota, the 'best' brands leapfrog each other. My year the best was Trex. Now, people in my area seem to prefer Timbertech.

You can't go wrong if you don't expect it to look exactly like wood and you don't exect it'll be 100% maint-free.

- shawn

[Jason White]

I seem to recall that years ago, some installers were installing Trex boards tight to each other without any space in-between. This caused water to just "sit" on the surface and some homeowners had mold/mildew problems. You need those gaps for drainage and a little bit of movement.

JW


I'm planning on building a deck of man made, hopefully maintenance free material. I've heard some bad things about Trex, has anyone had any experience with Trex or any other man made material in building a deck?
Thanks
Dennis

[Matt Ocel]

I don't know if I can add much.
Its heavy.
Some areas need pre-drilling.
Some of the Trex lines do not have all the accessories yet.
It absorbs alot of heat so sometimes bare feet get hot.
IMHO the rail systems look cheap.
Its spendy. here is what I pay for a 5/4" x 6" x 12'
Treated $ 8.20 ea
Cedar $16.30 ea
Trex $29.50 ea

I personally prefer Pro-cell
www.azek.com

[Rick Fisher]

I have trex on my deck and installed it myself. You need to install it as the instructions say.

Its a great product.

Its heavy and you end up dragging it around. I countersinked all the screws to avoid lumps around all the screws.

I would use it again. Avoid any decking that is hollow, especially in a humid area.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Some very good pointers given in this post. I agree that it's hot in the sun, can sag such that you can see the joist locations, and it fades in color over time. But it's nearly maintenance free (just wash it) and it won't split or crack.

Trex was one of the first offerors. There are a bunch of manufacturers, mostly regional. Lots of colors and grain patterns now available. Be cautious of the Veranda stuff sold at Home Depot. It's very thin versus what is available at building supply yards.

As far as railing suppliers, there are Trex-like railings, PVC plastic railings and fiber composite railings (like Fibercon). Lots of styles.

-Jeff :)

[Matt Ocel]

On a stair tread application Trex can only span 12" O.C. which usually means an additional stringers will be required.

[Dan Bowman]

I had Trex installed three years ago and I hate it. Mildew is awful and the various products to clean it simply don't work. Trex customer service is non-existent - they know all about the mildew problem and could care less. It may not rot like wood, but it's anything but "low-maintenance".

[Steve Jenkins]

I have "Choice Deck" from Lowes for my deck and love it. It does get hot in the sun but I just don't walk on it much barefoot. Maybe Kelly Hanna will see this and post. He builds decks and did mine.

[Larry Anderson]

I used Timbertech on my deck and am happy with it. I got it on sale a couple of years ago for $2.35/ft. Upside: it's tongue and groove so screws are hidden. Downside: even with pressure washing some stains remain and it is hot on bare feet. I considered their railing but quickly changed my mind when I found it worked out to about $30 per foot. Would have cost more for the rails than the decking.

[Yuchol Kim]

I compared to Trex and went with Timbertech. It was more rigid, looked more wood-like than Trex.

[Wayne Cannon]

Are you sold on using a man-made product?

Trex and similar products are heavy and quite flexible, requiring closely-spaced joists. UV exposure causes some fuzzing and fading of the surface after a couple of years. Trex is also fairly expensive. These man-made products are also not so environmentally friendly as their manufacturers would like you to believe (easier on trees, but not on the synthetic binders). I found that sustainably-grown 5/4 ipe (also heavy) was stiffer on 24" joist centers than any 2" softwood or Trex over 16" centers. Ipe also weathers very nicely without treatment, and is beautiful (but darker and hotter) if oiled. The result was a nicer-looking deck for less money.

[Dave Falkenstein]

I'll try to add points not covered or add to points previously made:

1. Trex (or other man-made materials) is VERY expensive, about 2-1/2 times the cost of 2X6 redwood in Arizona. A complete Trex railing is about $50 per linear foot for the materials. I have successfully used redwood for railing posts, rails and pickets with a Trex or Timbertech cap. The vertical members of railings do not need nearly as much maintenance as horizontal surfaces.

2. When installing most of the man-made deck materials, it is critical to install the joists on a flat plane with almost no variation in elevation from joist to joist. A Trex deck will look "wavy" if the supporting joist plane is not perfectly flat and level, because Trex is rather flexible and will easily conform to variations in the supporting plane.

3. Several people mentioned leaving end joint gaps. Since Trex changes in length with changes in temperature, gaps are required. Many folks don't like that look, especially in colder temperatures.

4. Man-made decks have a uniform appearance (some have grain patterns), unlike the variations you see with redwood, ipe or other natural woods. Some folks like the uniformity, while others think it makes the deck look artificial, which of course, it is.

5. In the installations I have done, I evolved to drilling and countersinking standard decking screws, rather than using special, multi-thread, expensive screws that suck the excess material into the screw hole. I found it really hard to drive screws into Trex without a pilot hole.

[William OConnell]

It was one of if not the first composite decking available. It is VERY heavy and flexes as David pointed out so it is important for the joists to be on an even plane. One of the responders stated it is as strong as nominal lumber used for decking wich isn't true at all. It doesnt have nearly the sheer strength of wood decking so it can flex quite a bit hence 12"O.C stringers are prefered for steps.

What needs to be clear is "Trex" is a brand of composite decking and there are many others out there. Frankly its not my personal choice for these types of decks. I like Evergrain much better. I can't tell you the chemical make up but it seems much stronger flex wise than Trex.

As far as railings go I don't like any of the railing systems that are offered as a matched set with composite decks and for me other railing systems should be used instead. Maybe thats just my personal taste.

Me personally when i'm done building a deck i want to be done. No powerwashing then staining every couple of years. Its just to much like work when I could be sitting on my deck barbequing steaks instead. So I like composites

http://woodworkers.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1274&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_GALLERYSID=1383fa714295efff8ba18c126e0cc22a

[Norm St.Onge]

Although Trex says 16" OC is ok, it's ok only if you don't mind the minor sag between joists. I always use 12" OC. And every framing detail will telegraph thru the Trex over time.

It does stain; red chaulk lines during construction (I know, read the instructions - only use white chaulk), wine, food, mold, mildew...at least here in Vermont it's not maintenance free.

If a customer insists on it, I use it, it's not terrible, but there are other options.

-Norm

[David G Baker]

When I was researching deck material while living in California I found that as Norm wrote that it is not advisable to install Trex 16" OC and that 12" OC is the way to go. At the time I did my research Trimax was the only material that was strong enough to use the same spacing as wood. A fellow employee had a deck made out of Trex that had been in use for around 4 years. I went to look at it and was not impressed. I guess it works well in a lot of situations but there are areas that have weather conditions and environments that I would not recommend using it if other options are available.

[Prashun Patel]

I went to look at it and was not impressed. I guess it works well in a lot of situations but there are areas that have weather conditions and environments that I would not recommend using it if other options are available.

I haven't seen your friend's deck, but I have seen enough Trex installations to believe that it's not so much the environment but the way it's installed that makes the biggest impact on appearance. The weather only makes it fade; all structural issues are the fault (IMHO) of the installer.

[Matt Ocel]

FYI -
If you install your trex diagonal you need to set your joist 12" O.C.

[Paul Girouard]

The weather only makes it fade; all structural issues are the fault (IMHO) of the installer.



So the fact that different lengths are different thickness is a installer issue? The fact it expands but does not contract is a installer issue?

Are you a Trex corperate lawyer?

[dennis thompson]

If you go to the DIY chatroom forum & do a search for "trex" you will see some pretty unhappy customers. So far my research indicates that in a man made product the Azek decking seem to be pretty good, it also is very expensive (about $3.29 foot for 5/4 x 6)
Dennis

[Prashun Patel]

Not a lawyer or a representative; just a happy customer. Take it for what it's worth. My parents have it, and half of my neighbors do too. We're all happy; but then again, we had a dynamite installer who might have protected us from the issues you cite.

[Steve Schoene]

Bye, reading this thread makes me glass I chose Ipe for the wrap around deck on my new house.

[David G Baker]

Shawn,
The weather and environmental thing I was writing about was the green moss or fungus that forms on the deck in damp shaded areas. I don't think that it hurts the material it just causes extra work when a person has the material installed and were told by the seller that the decking was maintenance free. The same problem probably occurs in any decking material from wood to plastic if placed in the same situation.

[Prashun Patel]

Yeah, I get the same stuff on my deck. My kids think it's cool and Martiany, but LOML doesn't share their enthusiasm for it.

[Terry Bigelow]

+1 for Ipe.
Something to consider. I did loads of research regarding a decking material and finally decided on Ipe. As someone who loves the look of wood(as I would imagine most would here;)) I couldn't bear the thought of using phony looking decking to justify the "no mantinence" attributes and the composite decking with the "exotic wood-look" were waaay too much for me. After reading quite a bit on Ipe vs. composite arguments and articles in various spots on the web it was an easy choice for me. I did have my doubts about the install process with all the talk of it's hardness and propensity to dull tooling. I am half way through the install and while it is tough on tools it is still just wood. If you've worked with hickory or other really hard woods theres no suprises. You do need to use stainless screws and pre-drill the holes though which is not a big deal to me. I think the stuff looks beautiful and with a wipe on oil designed for it(Messmers) even more so. Besides, the price was right in my case. It was less than the high-end composite. Check it out it's at least worth some consideration.

[Joe Vincent]

About what does IPE cost per foot?

[jim oakes]

I'm not a radical environmentalist, BUT --where does the plastic/composite deck go when your done with it?

Real wood goes back into the Earth nicely.

[Glenn Clabo]

Example here...
http://www.ipedepot.com/picelist01.htm

[William OConnell]

I'm not a radical environmentalist, BUT --where does the plastic/composite deck go when your done with it?

Real wood goes back into the Earth nicely.

Here on Long island everything gets recycled. So the landfills aren't filled with plastic. One of the main components of Trex at least when it came out was recycled plastic bottles. So the reality of it was (not sure if it still is) that Trex was made almost exclusively from recycled products. When plastics are dumped into a dumpster here they are taken and dumped on a huge concret apron and 3 guys and a machine seperate EVERYTHING into different piles wich in turn gets put into seperate dumpsters wich in turn heads off to its recycling place. Its quite the operation to see. I'm glad that they mandated this because the landfills here were huge and frankly a sad site to see.

[Todd Hyman]

+1 for Ipe.
Something to consider. I did loads of research regarding a decking material and finally decided on Ipe. As someone who loves the look of wood(as I would imagine most would here;)) I couldn't bear the thought of using phony looking decking to justify the "no mantinence" attributes and the composite decking with the "exotic wood-look" were waaay too much for me. After reading quite a bit on Ipe vs. composite arguments and articles in various spots on the web it was an easy choice for me. I did have my doubts about the install process with all the talk of it's hardness and propensity to dull tooling. I am half way through the install and while it is tough on tools it is still just wood. If you've worked with hickory or other really hard woods theres no suprises. You do need to use stainless screws and pre-drill the holes though which is not a big deal to me. I think the stuff looks beautiful and with a wipe on oil designed for it(Messmers) even more so. Besides, the price was right in my case. It was less than the high-end composite. Check it out it's at least worth some consideration.

Terry,

Can you post some photos of your installation? How much was it a bd. ft?

[Terry Bigelow]

I sure will. Give me a day or so. It is sold by linear foot but my price was $2.80 for 6" wide and $1.80 for 4". That was a friendly price;) through my rep at a local place. I own a cabinet shop and he hooked me up. But there is another place local with very close prices and I see you're here in GA. Try this place:http://www.trimscrew.com/index.htm. These guys are good people. I have a relationship with my supplier so it made sense to go with them instead(free shipping and I return anything I'm not happy with) but I purchased my screws(made by them), finish, drill bits and driver bits through Banner Elk.

[Wayne Cannon]

In 2005, my air-dried ipe decking cost just under $2.50 per linear foot for 5/4" x 6". There was almost zero waste (minor end-checking on some boards). I installed it over 16" on-center joists, but a demo deck of 5/4" ipe on 24" centers had almost no perceptible springiness. Many dealers have installed sample decks, so check them out.


Ipe is VERY hard, VERY dense/heavy, and VERY stiff.
It has a slight tendency to end-check (though I found very little in my raw delivery), so it is recommended to use an end-grain sealer. DO NOT get the sealer on the top surface. It's almost invisible when dry, but every time it rains you will see a very strong contrast between the dark wet ipe and the light-colored sealed ipe.
Ipe has tiny yellow-green flecks, but weathers to a nice uniform silver gray if untreated. Oiling ipe (with Messmer's oil for hardwood decking) results in a beautiful redish-brown that loses some of the redness with time. The dark oiled wood, combined with its high density, is VERY hot in the sun (too hot for bare feet to even walk across). We've let ours go back to its natural weathered silver-gray (can stand still in bare feet on sunny deck).
It's easy to twist off drill bits and screws, so drill pilot holes oversized and don't bend or rush the drill with a heavy, high-powered drill motor.
Ipe (Tabebuia) is sometimes called "Brazilian Walnut" or "Ironwood", but both terms are much broader and include many other species. It comes from Central and South America and the Carribbean. See http://www.woodsthebest.com/ipe_decking/ipe-wood.htm for lots more information on ipe. Plantation-grown ipe is widely available, but some ipe is harvested from Brazilian rain forests (albeit a very small percentage compared with the trees removed and burned to clear land for farming).