Screws for Brian Buckner

[Johnny Kleso]

I had a special request from Brian Buckner for a acme thread 1/2-10

Been about 10 years since I cut an acme and having the thread stop against a should is nerve racking

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-20.jpg

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-21.jpg

I'll post more tomorrow when I finish the head..

[Derek Cohen]

Ah Johnny, that is just beautiful work - as always!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Johnny Kleso]

Here is the finished screw, took about 3 hours with one of those hours for grinding the threading tool...

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-30.jpg

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-31.jpg

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-32.jpg

They are finish polished with Jewelers Rouge (Tripoli) which is RED (Rouge in French) in Color

Anyone have any question on how I made them be happy to answer them for you...

[Tony Sade]

Anyone have any question on how I made them be happy to answer them for you...

Well, since you asked, Johnny, I know zilch about metal working and find the end result you turn out just gorgeous. I'd be happy to hear anything you care to offer on how you do what you do.

Thanks,

[Johnny Kleso]

Tony,
I post a how to make one tomorrow I think most will not really understand what Im saying but I'll try to explain how I made it..

[harry strasil]

Did you set the compound at half the side angle?

[philip marcou]

Here is the finished screw, took about 3 hours with one of those hours for grinding the threading tool...

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-30.jpg

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-31.jpg

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-32.jpg

They are finish polished with Jewelers Rouge (Tripoli) which is RED (Rouge in French) in Color

Anyone have any question on how I made them be happy to answer them for you...
Johnny,
Is the female thread to be tapped or is this going to be turned in the cap?

[Johnny Kleso]

Hi Phil,

The Lever Cap hole is Tapped and Brian has Tandem style tap (pictured below) where I have a progressive four tap set that I use each of the four taps one after another..

Acme Taps are very expensive about 10x the cost of a standard V tap.. This the same style used to thread wood..
http://www.victornet.com/productimages/619.jpg

This is like two taps in a row..

[Ganthan Rhodes]

Very nice work, Johnny. I'm interested in seeing the how-to.

I've been wondering lately if it's possible to cast a decent acme-style lever cap screw in brass or bronze.

GR

[Johnny Kleso]

How To Make a Acme Lever Cap Screw...

I recieved this drawing from Brian,
http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/DrawingInfillCapscrew.jpg

I used 1" bronze stock I bought at eBay that was just long enough at 2.300 long..

I heald it in a three jaw chuck by the head and faced and center drilled with a very small #1 center drill..

I then tuned the thread major diameter of .495 and ground my threading tool or 29 1/2* with a flat sized for a 10 tip thread..

I made a under cut between head and thread for my tool have have a safe space to stop..

I set up late to cut 10 tpi by changing gears and setting compound to 14 3/4*

I set compound to zero and blued thread diameter
I touched OD and set cross slide to zero, now all zeros are set..

I feed compund in .002 and and wait for chasing dial to line up with any line as 10 tip is an even thread if and odd # thread I must line it up with a number line only..

I pull up easy on 1/2 nut handle a 1/8"-1/4" before line on chasing dial is lines up and if slides in right on line easily..

The hairy part is not stopping before I crash at shoulder.. I slam 1/2 nut out and back off cross slide and move carrage back down for another pass by feeding in compound another .002 and reset cross slide to zero.. I repeat this about 30 times till a piece of 1" brass I drilled and tapped fits thread I am cutting well..

I then fill off burrs before tests and when it fits I hack saw a slot down my brass gauge and now use it to hold threads in chuck..

I turn heads OD to 7/8" I face and with form tools make the hump detail called a Sarcens Cap ..

I how use a sigle wheel of a knurling tool which forms the knurl by pressing hard on 7/8" diameter..
I then add some chamfers and with a V tool add three lines around knurled OD ..

I flip part in chuck and add chamfer to end of thread and file a small raidus..

Part is finished execpt for polishing on rag wheel with Tripoli Rouge

[Ryan Cathey]

I notice you use a 3 jaw. What kind of accuracy can you achieve with it as compared to a 4 jaw?

[Johnny Kleso]

Ryan,

My chuck has a about a .003 run out a four jaw in metal working has indenpendent jaws (chuck key only moves one jaw) so you can dial part right into zero but it may take several mins. not seconds..

So if the head of the screw has a .003 run out who cares..

[Ryan Cathey]

That's kinda what I figured. I'm taking a class right now and we're learning on the four jaw.

It's neat to see your lathe work!

[Johnny Kleso]

4 Jaws are the most versatile..

Ask your teacher about Face Plate work and Tool Makers Buttons..

About 80 years ago there was no milling machines like Bridgeports and all precission drilling and boring was done on a lathe face plate or 4 jaw..

You layout your holes and center punch them
Then drill and tap them 10-32 and screw in the Toolmaker Buttons ( kind of like a ball with a 10-32 thread) now with hieght gauge you check to see exacty what your offsets are to have the button exacty where you want it .. Now you indicate your button in on the lathe to match your off sets..

using a Bridgeport milling machine is so much less work then the old guys I worked with when I was an apprentice :)

4 jaws help you to learn how to indicate parts in..

On my three jaw I use a piece of soda can under the hign spot jaw to zero parts in that matter..

[Dave Lehnert]

[quote=Johnny Kleso;916558]I had a special request from Brian Buckner for a acme thread 1/2-10

I would be interested to know what kind of lathe and mill a woodworker could get to learn metal working. And not break the bank. Cheap but good.

[Johnny Kleso]

Rockwell made an X-Y attacment for wood lathe so you have a carrage feed and cross feed for its wood lathes and see them now and then at ebay..

I am guessing you could buy an X-Y table @Enco and mount a tool post to it for use on a bigger wood lathe..
You would need a strong motor and maybe a smaller pully to reduce the RPMs for steel cutting..

My lathe is 9" Southbend and eBay sells 100s of parts for them every week.. The also sell whole lathes, two or three a week for about $1000 -$1500 loaded..

I bought mine from eBay and was missing motor section called the counter shaft and a bunch of other little stuff that adds up but it was only $310 and $130 shipping..
I spent maybe another $200-$300 to tool it all up and buy missing parts like a motor :)

Lots of people buy they local to part them out on eBay they are so popular..

I was looking at a Grizzy at the IWF, I think 13-15" that looked and felt awesome and the size I wish I had room for..

I have not seen Grizzlys 9"-10" model but if anything like the bigger one I would be happy...

Jet also makes and OK lathe..

[John Schreiber]

That's a beautiful job. After I get this woodworking thing figured out, maybe I'll try metal working. Of course, I think I could work for a hundred years and not have woodworking figured out.

[Johnny Kleso]

John S. said
"I think I could work for a hundred years and not have woodworking figured out."

I think working metal is the same..
Thats why I enjoyed my job so much, most of the time :)
There was always something new to learn every day and you get to hold and show people what you made and get their feedback on it..

Now if I could just get myself to finish my chest of drawers I'd be a woodworker...

[Doug Shepard]

Just out of curiousity, what's the benefit of doing a lever cap screw with Acme threads vs the standard threads?

[Kevin Brenton]

Apologies John I don't mean to hijack your thread.

Nice work on the screw ,been along time since I machined an acme thread also ,have done buttress and square threads also but many years in the past .
My trade is a Fitter and Turner ,but I don't work at my trade these days ,but I do have a metal working lathe in my workshop ,a Myford Super 7,very handy for making parts when restoring woodworking tools.

Doug ,

Acme thread is a lot beefier and will take a lot more pressure ,that's why they are used in vices and machine feed screws where a lot of pressure is applied to the sides of the thread form.
A vee form thread would wear out much faster and the peaks would end up leaning over one way from the constant pressure on one side.
In the case of a machine feed screw the nut is usually made from brass or bronze ,so that it wears out and not the screw itself ,much cheaper to replace a nut than a whole screw shaft.

Kev.

[Doug Shepard]

Kevin
That's kinda what I thought, but since this is going on a handplane lever cap I thought there might be another reason. All the handplane docs I've seen come in the box warn against overtightening at the risk of damaging the plane, and that's without Acme threaded screws. Seems like the extra beef is way more than you'd want to use???

[Johnny Kleso]

Hi Doug,

Acme threads are more often more coarse then standard thread so they offer less of a mechanical advantage..

IE: 1/2-10 acme is the fine version
and 1/2-13 is the standard NC version

The finer the thread the eaiser it is to make tighter then a coarse thread..

When hand planes used to earn a living 50-70 hours a week you could wear screws out in a lifetime or two but these days I think acme screws are more of a status symbol as not many small cottage industry tool makers can afford to use acme screws.. Cutting standard threads on a lathe is harder to learn and could take a few years till you feel able..

Plus acme screws adds a good hour or two of extra labor to the price of a hand plane and not many would want to pay it I think.. I changed Brian $30 for this screw that means with a added cost of $100 for a tap I would guess it could raise the price of a plane $50 easily....

PS:
I hope to take some images of write a Tutorial on Tapping Holes for my website and I add the text and pics here in a post.. Its really not to hard to do and really comes in handy when making Jigs or Fixtures

(Jig= Guildes the cutting tool like a drill bushing) (Fixture= Holds a work piece)..

[Doug Shepard]

OK. Starting to wake up and smell the coffee now.
Thanks