Step Two - New Shop

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Well.......I got the phone call from the city development department. I have to move my shop 10' in from the fence as there is a sewer line running just outside my fence................But my plan has been approved. :eek: :p :D :D Going down to write them a check....pickup the permits. Called contractor. He'll be here tomorrow morning at 0800 to sign a contract. Things are starting to happen.. If you listen real close I bet you can hear my heart beat with excitement or see the gleam of my teeth as I smile! Robert Ducharme left a big rootball in the ground here that'll have to come out but construction could start as early as next week! Yes!!!!!!! :D :D :D This isn't a stealth or major gloat.......This is just pure joy!!!!!!

[Robert Ducharme]

Nah, that thing in the ground is just the dragon's hairball. My cat has them all the time. :)

Congratulations.

[Jim Becker]

Good deal, Ken. I look forward to scores of progress pictures!

[John Miliunas]

Ken, if I were to judge your age from your post, I'd call it at about 6...The day before Christmas! :D Isn't this whole shop/tool thing simply amazing? Makes grown adults all giddy and act like little kids just before their birthday or something! :rolleyes: So, keep us posted on the progress of your sandbox...errrrr.....playgr.....No. Shop. Yeah. That's what I meant. Shop! :D Congrats..BIG time! :cool:

[Chris Padilla]

6? I'm freakin' 4 today! :D :D Na-na-na-na-na.....

[Steven Wilson]

Great news on the shop, permits are half the battle !!!

Joh, Chris, I'm still waiting for Santa to deliver my toy ! Geese I'm not getting anything done at work today.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Robert, rootball.....hairball......right now it's an obstacle.

I have in my hands a 1/4" stack of papers......approved plans and building permits.

John....don't know what it is, either. Similar to the effect of somebody bringing in a little baby to work! Have you ever noticed how the most serious of persons, male or female, can become the biggest of idiots when playing witn said babies......goo goo!......gaa...gaa!......6? yeah, that's about right! ( Whoops.....maybe I'm the only idiot on which babies have that effect?) :confused: :)


Chris......neener, neener, neener! :p

[John Bush]

Congratulations--Yahoo!!
Did you decide on radiant floor heating? How about the hot tub and the 68" Plasma screen with surround sound? Good luck!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John, as much as I would like to use in the floor radiant heat, it just made my project too complex and expensive. I would have to delay building my shop for another year or two to afford it. I couldn't wait. I may look at overhead radiant tube heat.

[Frank Pellow]

Welcome to the "new workshop under construction" group. I look forward to both reading about and seeing progress.

[Jim Becker]

As much as I would like to use in the floor radiant heat, it just made my project too complex and expensive. I would have to delay building my shop for another year or two to afford it. I couldn't wait. I may look at overhead radiant tube heat.
As long as your ceiling is high enough, the overhead radient tubes work very nicely to keep you toast warm. But you might also check out a company called Radient Floor Company (http://www.radiantcompany.com/), who specializes in DIY and reasonable cost in-floor radient systems. Who knows...it might actually fit in your budget when you compare the cost of the tubes. It's worth looking at at least!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim, in fact, that's the company whose design and materials I was considering. Where I'd run into additional cost was because of my 35 year old house. I would have to replumb the water supply to my house to get water to the shop. This additional expense was just more than my budget would allow. Without a constant water supply, the system would require especially designed control circuitry. The local code calls for completely insulated floors for in-the floor radiant heating systems. The design I liked and agreed with most used 2" of insulation in outer 4' of the floor perimeter, then 1" in the next inside 4' of the floor perimeter. The inner 30% of the floor surface was to be uninsulated to take advantage of thermal mass effect. The city wants the entire floor insulated. The long and short of it was that an additional $1000 in insulation costs coupled the initial cost of the system and replacing the water system to my home and to the shop would bust my budget. I even approached the city about just installing the floor insulation and tubing now and finishing it later (manifolds, controls, heating device). They are reluctant to leave a heating permit open for an indefinite period of time and it's against city building regulations. My wife who's eligible for retirement today, agreed to work a couple of more years to pay for this and we'd retire together in the next 3 or so years. I need to get this built now! I'll probably end up with some kind of n/g forced hot air and maybe use a positive flow ventilation system in the finishing room to reduce dust migration into it. I can't tell you how badly I want in the floor radiant heat but it just isn't in the cards.

[Jim Becker]

Sounds like a plan, Ken. Sometimes things are not as "simple" as they first apear. And your lovely is a peach for holding off on her retirement so you both can make things happen!

[Rob Russell]

Ken,

Why do you need to tie your shop into the house's water system? You could easily use a "closed system" to heat the shop and use something like antifreeze instead of water. You'd only need a hot water heater out there as a heat source and could even install a gas-fired, direct venting unit with a 100 gallon propane tank stuck in back of the shop (in that 10' space you have now). If you wanted to and have the solar orientation, could use panels on the roof of your shop as a primary heat source with the hot water heater as a backup for cloudy or especially cold days. The control systems for a closed radiant setup like that are really simple.

Rob

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Rob, I considered most of those options. Again, it's a matter of timing and money, like most things in middle class life. Believe me when I say, I wanted in the floor radiant heat but I need to build this now and now's budget won't allow it. I tried to get the city to allow me to do it in stages. Not impossible but nearly and would delay the shop being built and with enough "hoops" to jump through it might not get built this year. If I could have installed the radiant heating system in stages, I'd built the shop this year and installed the rest of the system over the next year or so as my budget would allow. I have enough budget now to build it and probably finish the interior before summers end (personal time allowing). Then I can build work benches, cabinets and finishing room as time and money allow.

[Jerry Todd]

Ken, Have you given any thought to your shop lighting? Before I built my shop I discovered an article in the Feb 2002 issue of Fine Woodworking " LIGHTING FOR THE WORKSHOP" by Jack L. Lindsey. I used his formula in my shop and have been happy with the results. When Jim Becker visited his first comment was the shop lighting.
You can download the article for $3.50 online from The Taunton Press at the link below.
https://www.taunton.com/store/shoppingcart/ssl/tplus.asp?GoToOnSuccess=/store/shoppingcart/online_selection_validation.asp

If that does not work do a search for Taunton Press and then go to Archives.

Also do not forget to allow for electrical drop cords from ceiling outlets. I have six and use them all the time.
Looking forward to the shop pictures. Good luck.
Jerry

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jerry,

Thanks for the headsup on the lighting article. I will download it. Yes I've given thought to both lighting and overhead outlets. In fact, that's the method I will be using for the lighting circuits, installing overhead outlets on the lighting circuit and plugging fluorescent lights into same. I am planning to install many 120 and 220 outlets along the walls at a height of about 52 inches. The height is such that I can stand a 4X sheet good up against the wall and be able to plug in tools without fighting the sheet goods. The height will also clear any future work benches that might be located there and yet low enough to clear any future overhead cabinets I might install. I will also be installing a few number of overhead incandescent lighting fixtures for "immediate" use. If I run into a cold shop and need to quickly get a tool and leave, I won't have to wait for the fluorescent tubes to warm up to get light. These fixtures will be few and strategically located. Thanks again for the heads up. I will download the article. I am a rescent subscriber to Fine Woodworking and enjoy their articles and find their advice invaluable.

[Rob Russell]

What about option that would allow you to easily retrofit the radiant floor heat?

Build your shop now. Insulate the floor to local code requirements (yes - that means cost now). When the shop is inspected, have it noted that the insulation was installed to whatever R-value and other codes are required for heat. Doesn't mean you have to have a heating permit, just that you want the actual installed insulation inspected and noted. If nothing else - that will keep your shop warmer in the winter. Use 3/4 T+G sheathing for the "subfloor" which will be your finished floor for a year. Next year, lay the radiant tubing on top of the subfloor and then another layer of 3/4" ply on top of that. You'd need to frame your doors on top of a 2x4+3/4" plywood "lift" so your doors would still swing over the future finished shop floor.

At some point in the future, run a radiant system on top of the subfloor using 2x4 sleepers. Install a layer of 3/4" T+G plywood that becomes your new shop floor. This is why you raised your doors up 2 1/4" when you originally build the shop. Your finished floor is now the level of your doors and it will look like the radiant heat was there from the beginning.

If you take this approach, remember to raise your electrical outlets so they don't end up 46" over the final finished workshop floor.

Just a thought.

Rob