The "Quality" v-belt thread

[Douglas Brummett]

let me preface by saying that I am not interested in a link belt as part of this discussion...

Okay, just spent the better part of an hour searching around several forums. There are a lot of instances of users recommending "quality" v-belts or industrial v-belts. Of course nobody recommends brand names or points to retail outlets to obtain these mythical high quality belts.

I recently picked up a Rigid bandsaw. The stock belt (a-980) is terrible, lumpy, and several other indications of its poor quality. I think I could get by with an a38 or a39 belt as an alternative. But the big question is what manufacturer? Any help?

[Greg Cole]

Goodyear or Gates are the first two that pop up in my pea brain....

Greg

[Douglas Brummett]

Thanks, both are readily available in the necessary size. I will go pick up a Gates after work and report back.

[Curt Harms]

The "notched" V belts (AX?) are reputed to be less prone to taking set than smooth V belts. Link belts, with or without pulley upgrades do get awfully good reviews....

[Peter Quinn]

Goodyear VX belts are available in just about every size from Mcmaster Carr, they have a great web site. VX is the V belt with the inside notched, gives you better heat dissipation, less memory on small diameter pulleys, very close to the performance of a link belt. I put them on the shaper and planer, made a noticeable difference on the shaper. You won't get better quality than those.

[Douglas Brummett]

Okay, so the Gates belt is very nice. A world better than the stock FUJU belt that came on the saw. It has no real noticeable zone where it is joined. No flapping or other issues, just smooth turning.

Okay, so Gates and Goodyear are reportedley decent. AX type may be better wrt small pulley and avoiding set during periods of non-use. Any other comments?

[Peter Quinn]

Not sure what your goal is, but if smoother BS performance is your goal, once you have replaced the stock belt with a gates or goodyear, check the pulleys. If the machine doesn't have machined pulleys those may make a difference. Not sure they are as essential at BS speeds as on faster motors but may make a difference. Think good tires, good belts, good pulleys. The whole power train needs to be in good shape to run smooth.

[Douglas Brummett]

Not sure what your goal is, but if smoother BS performance is your goal, once you have replaced the stock belt with a gates or goodyear, check the pulleys. If the machine doesn't have machined pulleys those may make a difference. Not sure they are as essential at BS speeds as on faster motors but may make a difference. Think good tires, good belts, good pulleys. The whole power train needs to be in good shape to run smooth.
My main goal was to get rid of the vibration in my new rigid bandsaw. I bolted the saw and motor to the base, installed the belt, and fired it up. It was almost comical how bad the thing was vibrating and wiggling. The stock belt was warped, twisted, and had a bit of a lump at the joint.

The secondary goal was to put a reference up for other users to find in the future. A little bit of information on quality replacement v-belts.

RANT (may be off topic)
There is a pretty big bandwagon behind link belt upgrades. I don't see it as an upgrade. IIRC they were designed as an emergency replacement until you could get the correct belt. I have a 3/4HP saw and don't want to lose any of my power to belt slip at the pulley interfaces. There are some debates out there. A lot of users swear by link belts. Personally I think that they are overpriced and not a necessity. Higher quality machines than mine have gotten by on v-belts for a long time. If v-belts were the right solution I think that a lot more manufacturers would install them as factory equipment. They may silence your machine, but they are a bandaid solution.

In my case the quality belt fixed about 90% of the vibration. The rest of it was due to cheap/thin construction by the manufacturer. I installed a 3/4" mdf board under the saw and motor, effectively stiffening the top of the stand. Now I am quite happy with the results. There is still runout in the pulleys and wheels of the saw that create some small amount of vibration, but I can live with it.

A link belt may have had similar results. But it also would have come with some compromise. Whether I would ever see the effects of the compromise is open for debate.

[Shawn Walker]

[quote=Douglas Brummett;915727
RANT (may be off topic)
There is a pretty big bandwagon behind link belt upgrades. I don't see it as an upgrade. IIRC they were designed as an emergency replacement until you could get the correct belt. I have a 3/4HP saw and don't want to lose any of my power to belt slip at the pulley interfaces. There are some debates out there. A lot of users swear by link belts. Personally I think that they are overpriced and not a necessity. Higher quality machines than mine have gotten by on v-belts for a long time. If v-belts were the right solution I think that a lot more manufacturers would install them as factory equipment. They may silence your machine, but they are a bandaid solution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I may get skewered... But I agree.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Industrial applications ten not to be plagued by crappy belt issues largely because the tension that they employ tends to overwhelm the sorts of problems that are so annoying to the lighter machinery users.

It's all in the bearings. Machinery made for consumers tends to be - - -well - - -not real robust.

However if you can do something like the flat belt pulley systems that you'll find on the finer Euro style machines you will be boatloads happier. . this of course means you'll need new pulleys and tensioners.Flat belts are better because:
1.) they transmit power more efficiently
2.) they thinner and more supple and that lets them operate with less vibration at lower tensions.

As a general proposition flat belts are the best power transmission devices going. They consume less energy than gears or chains and are dramatically lower consumers of power than any V belt. Most V belt systems lose 10% of the motor's power on each pulley.

Technically, the power consumption is less than that in a set up like a contractor's saw because the tension on the pulley is nowhere near the rated tension for the belt in question. But then you get all the attendant problems like vibration and noise and other problems.

Gears and chains are about 5% power consumption. Flat belts can be near zero. Rubber flat belts are about like gears. The lowest power consumption gong is a steel flat belt. Steel flat belt is, bar none, the most efficient and smooth power transmission mechanism going.

[glenn bradley]

I bolted the saw and motor to the base, installed the belt, and fired it up. It was almost comical how bad the thing was vibrating and wiggling.

Bummer. I notice in the reviews of this saw vibration was a problem. One review had to score an "N/A" in the cutting radius category because they couldn't keep the material still enough to cut small circles.

That Ridgid was also tuned up by a bandsaw guru in another article and the results were that there was no difference in the quality of cut between it and the high dollar machine they were comparing to. The point was that if you spend the time you can save some money.

I'm not sure what happened to set you against link belts which are used throughout industry on a daily basis. I'm one of those who has solved vibration, gained power and reduced slippage by using the appropriate link belt.

It gets boring after awhile when so many people report such dramatic improvement when they use something. Don't let that set you against a good thing. I assume better quality v-belts, like the link belts, would improve on the "standard" belt supplied by some manufacturers and this may be the fix you're after. I hope you are able to improve your machine and will keep us informed on what you decide.

[Frank Drew]

Cliff,

Where would you put poly-v belts in your ranking (or is that what you mean by flat belts)? The ones I've used were very smooth running and seemed very efficient.

I replaced the v-belt on my lathe with a link belt because I didn't want to have to pull the spindle next time the belt needed changing; I can't say I noticed an efficiency gain or reduction.

[Douglas Brummett]

I'm not sure what happened to set you against link belts which are used throughout industry on a daily basis. I'm one of those who has solved vibration, gained power and reduced slippage by using the appropriate link belt.

It gets boring after awhile when so many people report such dramatic improvement when they use something. Don't let that set you against a good thing. I assume better quality v-belts, like the link belts, would improve on the "standard" belt supplied by some manufacturers and this may be the fix you're after. I hope you are able to improve your machine and will keep us informed on what you decide.

Nothing really set me against them per say. I would in fact like to try one out at some point, maybe on my drill press. I didn't want to use one on this bandsaw. For the reasons listed above I don't entirely agree that they are the right tool for the job when it comes to long term use. That is just a gut feeling based on internet reading I have done.

WRT my bandsaw, it is running well now. I bought it knowing full and well that it could have vibration and balance issues. I am pleased that a quality belt and a scrap piece of mdf are all that mine required to get vibration in check.

As mentioned earlier, the stock belt was a very poor specimen. I knew before I even installed it that it was going to give me trouble.

Honestly I had hoped to see more suggestions here for brands and vendors of quality v-belts. I guess it is just one of those simple things that I didn't know but has very little online discussion. Obviously if both Gates and Goodyear branded belts are available at most local auto parts stores there is little need to source online stores :rolleyes:

[Peter Quinn]

Link belts come in two varieties, the temporary fix on the fly variety and the permanent replacement variety. The expensive Link Belt brand is a permanent solution that you would be hard pressed to break. I don't feel they are worth the price to me so I don't own any.

My PM66 came with three VX, or cogged V belts (cogs are on the inside circumference). These are not cheap belts (gates IIR), though not as expensive as link belts, and they give most of the same performance features that a link belt will minus adjustable length. They also grab the pulleys like a hungry monkey grabs a banana and don't let go, i.e. no slipping. I have replaced most of the belts in my shop with VX belts.

My bandsaw has a flat multi V belt like a serpentine belt on some cars. It works great, though the pulleys must be nearly perfectly aligned or the belt comes flying off. It rides on special machined pulleys, very smooth set up. I have no idea where to get this type of set up after market.

I see the belts like tires on a car, bad tires, bad handling. But once you replace the belts, you need to look at the pulleys. Just like on a car, good tires, bent rims, bad handling. You also have to make sure the the bandsaw wheels are balanced and the tires are good. You would assume the tires are good on a new machine, but then again you would think the belts and pulleys were up to par too, so who knows? Check the power train.

[Harley Reasons]

I've been picking up some vibes about a new Ridgid Bandsaw coming out this year in the 4thQ. Supposedly is it going to correct some of the problems the current model is having. I know we've gotten back a couple and the BORG due to excessive vib

[Douglas Brummett]

Interesting. At the least a thicker top for the base is in order on the current design. More power would be nice, but is somewhat pointless without nicer guides (bb rollers) and a taller resaw height. All of this would drive up cost, not sure that is a good thing.

I ended up at about $500 total for the rigid, mdf scraps, casters, Kreg fence, graphite cool blocks, and a couple of Olson blades. If the base saw price went up more than about $50-75 I would just go the Grizzly route. Main reasons I went with the Rigid were price, instant availability, and lifetime warranty.

[Rich Enders]

I lost a 7 year old v-belt on my J/P, so I started looking around at what other belts in the shop might be ready to fail. I pulled the cover off the Ridgid bandsaw, and sure enough it had a Fuju A-980 just like Douglas (the OP) noted in this older thread. It was lumpy and haggard looking so I replaced it with the Gates A38. The factory alignment of the pulleys was poor so I corrected that during the install.

To my surprise the band saw now has an annoying vibration that was not there with the A 980. Any thoughts you guys might have would be appreciated.

For the moment I am going back to the A-980.

[Bruce Page]

Did you run-in the new belt long enough to get the kink out? It's been sitting in that cardboard sleeve or hanging on a hook for who knows how long.

[Myk Rian]

Are you sure the belt was the problem, and not the wheels/tires?

As far as link belts go, I only use them to get the size needed for a proper belt.

[Allan Speers]

Industrial applications ten not to be plagued by crappy belt issues largely because the tension that they employ tends to overwhelm the sorts of problems that are so annoying to the lighter machinery users.

It's all in the bearings. Machinery made for consumers tends to be - - -well - - -not real robust.

However if you can do something like the flat belt pulley systems that you'll find on the finer Euro style machines you will be boatloads happier. . this of course means you'll need new pulleys and tensioners.Flat belts are better because:
1.) they transmit power more efficiently
2.) they thinner and more supple and that lets them operate with less vibration at lower tensions.

As a general proposition flat belts are the best power transmission devices going. They consume less energy than gears or chains and are dramatically lower consumers of power than any V belt. Most V belt systems lose 10% of the motor's power on each pulley.

Technically, the power consumption is less than that in a set up like a contractor's saw because the tension on the pulley is nowhere near the rated tension for the belt in question. But then you get all the attendant problems like vibration and noise and other problems.

Gears and chains are about 5% power consumption. Flat belts can be near zero. Rubber flat belts are about like gears. The lowest power consumption gong is a steel flat belt. Steel flat belt is, bar none, the most efficient and smooth power transmission mechanism going.

Cliff, I'm looking for replacements for the used grizzly 21" BS I recently purchased. It has a 5 Hp motor, and surprisingly only TWO belts. (A31 V-belts. ) The stock belts are extremely stiff, and I've read many complaint about the pulleys on larger Grizzly machines being hard to adjust properly, without vibration issues.

Additionally, the motor pulley is very small. For this reason I was going to get cogged (notched) belts, or VX belts. I have learned enough about link belts to know they are not the best option for higher HP or multi-groove pulleys.

However, you have me intrigued by these flat belts, but I also need to know if just 2 of them can handle a typical 5 HP load.

Also, of course, where does one get them (and the pulleys) for a decent price?
--------

Another issue is pulley diameter. For instance, with my Powermatic 100 planer, the motor pulley is 3.95" diameter, but the actual diameter that a 4L belt sees is only 3.7" (I think "A" belts see the full diameter, though I'm not sure) That's a critical difference if one is trying to maintain a certain arbor rpm.

So, if one is replacing either a 4L or an "A" belt, AND it's pulley, how does one determine the correct pulley size? Again, my 21" Grizzly uses two A31 V-belts. So?

[Michael W. Clark]

Hi Allan,
The pulleys should be made for the correct belt cross-section. To keep the same speed, you want the same size ratio. This can "usually" be done by measuring the OD of the pulleys. Say the big pulley is 6" and the small one 2", then any combination that gives you a 3:1 (6"/2") ratio will mechanically work. Weight and size of the pulleys should also be considered.

I like the Gates Polychain with flanged pulleys, but probably overkill for a 5hp bandsaw.

[Allan Speers]

- But that's NOT always so, hence my question.

For instance, My PM100 uses a 2AK41 pulley, which has an O.D. of 3.95", but the 4L belts only see an effective diameter ( known as "pitch" yes? ) of 3.7"

I think (not sure) that "A" belts, which of course can be used on such a pulley, effectively see the full 3.95". My Grizzly BS already uses "A" belts, so I assume that there would be little difference switching to a flat belt, but I want to be sure.


Regardless, I'm thinking that the Goodyear banded VX belt should probably be more than good enough, and no worries changing the pulley. (with the Grizzly at least.)

[Lee Schierer]

[quote=Douglas Brummett;915727
RANT (may be off topic)
There is a pretty big bandwagon behind link belt upgrades. I don't see it as an upgrade. IIRC they were designed as an emergency replacement until you could get the correct belt. I have a 3/4HP saw and don't want to lose any of my power to belt slip at the pulley interfaces. There are some debates out there. A lot of users swear by link belts. Personally I think that they are overpriced and not a necessity. Higher quality machines than mine have gotten by on v-belts for a long time. If v-belts were the right solution I think that a lot more manufacturers would install them as factory equipment. They may silence your machine, but they are a bandaid solution.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I may get skewered... But I agree.

I have stalled the motor on my 1.5 hp saw that has a link belt, so I wouldn't think any 3/4 Hp motor would lose much if any efficiency. Manufacturers are looking to keep their costs as low as possible to stay competitive. Adding a belt at twice the cost would not help them achieve that goal. On a frequently used saw they probably provide less benefit as the belt would not sit in one position for an extended period of time to take a set. However, in a hobbiest situation, a saw may sit for a month or more without being used and the belt could take more on more set and contribute to more vibration.

[Rick Fisher]

I just finished a restore... used Gates.. Asked at the automotive store which where the best.. Cost me $50.00 for 2 belts.. That's all I got ..

[Michael W. Clark]

Allan, Yes, if you go to a different belt section, but don't change the pulleys, could run into issues.

However, the "A" and "4L" do seem very close in section. Not sure you would see much difference.

[Rich Enders]

Bruce,

Good question. After hearing/feeling this new vibration I ran the BS for about 15 minutes with no added load. Do you think that is long enough? It didn't seem to help. I then resawed about 12 feet of 6 inch wide hard maple. The vibration is a bit better under load, but still a bit much. Would a notched belt be better? Will a link belt work on existing V-Belt pulleys?

[Larry Edgerton]

I use "Optibelt" brand. I an not a huge fan of link belts either but I do have a couple. One is on a Delta 14" band saw, works fine.

It may have been said, but automotive and machine belts are not made to the same standard. You want machine belts. I have used automotive in a pinch and they always introduce vibration.

[Justin Jump]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?193832-Ridgid-Band-Saw&highlight=

Link to my Ridgid bandsaw upgrades.....

The belt I used in on the link.....





let me preface by saying that I am not interested in a link belt as part of this discussion...

Okay, just spent the better part of an hour searching around several forums. There are a lot of instances of users recommending "quality" v-belts or industrial v-belts. Of course nobody recommends brand names or points to retail outlets to obtain these mythical high quality belts.

I recently picked up a Rigid bandsaw. The stock belt (a-980) is terrible, lumpy, and several other indications of its poor quality. I think I could get by with an a38 or a39 belt as an alternative. But the big question is what manufacturer? Any help?

[glenn bradley]

Any other comments?

Are you just searching for a standard belt that will be close to a link belt in performance for some reason? Just curious as to the purpose of trying different belts; is this or a review write up?

[Mark Godlesky]

Interesting thread, but .....the OP has not posted to this thread since 2008.:)

[Mike Chalmers]

Interesting thread, but .....the OP has not posted to this thread since 2008.:)



Lots of others have though, making the thread relevant and efficient.

[lowell holmes]

I've done away with link belts on my machines. I've gone to cogged v-belts with good success. I have them on my table saw, band saw, and jointer.

They are at least three years old. I have no vibration problems.

[Doug Ladendorf]

I've gone to Gates AX belts for machines that need new belts. They have been excellent and consistent in two or three belt applications. I've ordered from Royal Supply.

Doug

[John Coloccia]

I like the link belts. I'm not sure why the OP doesn't feel they're a permanent solution. They're very convenient, seem to last a very long time, don't kink, run very smoothly and cleanly, and I only need to keep one kind of belt in the shop to service all of my machines. It's really difficult to see a disadvantage.

[glenn bradley]

Interesting thread, but .....the OP has not posted to this thread since 2008.:)

Ha-ha . . . oops. I have seen others respond to threads that have been accidentally or purposefully brought beck to life and wondered why they don't notice the dates. I guess now I know ;-) I even responded to the original posting back in 2008. I guess I should wait for the coffee to kick in before responding ;-) I guess I could try to add some value by telling everyone that I have yet to replace a link belt and I have had some of them in service for a decade or so.

[Larry Edgerton]

I didn't notice it either Glen, but then information is information....

If you have Euro machines the company I mentioned before has these sizes, and in matched sets as well as metric pulleys. I always buy two sets just in case but I have not worn any out yet. No vibrations.

http://www.optibelt-usa.com/

[Allan Speers]

I like the link belts. I'm not sure why the OP doesn't feel they're a permanent solution. They're very convenient, seem to last a very long time, don't kink, run very smoothly and cleanly, and I only need to keep one kind of belt in the shop to service all of my machines. It's really difficult to see a disadvantage.


The general consensus on link belts is:

1: They are not rated for more than about 1/2 hp per belt.

2: When used at higher HP, they tend to stretch, flutter, and "bloom out," losing grip.

3: When used in pairs, they can stretch at uneven rates, causing a mis-match.

4: They are often used to compensate for a problem that really should be corrected at the source.

5: Pink? Are you kidding me? :rolleyes:


Under certain conditions, link belts are great, but one should not consider them to be the holy grail.

[Lee Schierer]

The general consensus on link belts is:

1: They are not rated for more than about 1/2 hp per belt. Hmmm, mine works just fine on 1-1/2 hp.

2: When used at higher HP, they tend to stretch, flutter, and "bloom out," losing grip. No flutter on mine

3: When used in pairs, they can stretch at uneven rates, causing a mis-match.

4: They are often used to compensate for a problem that really should be corrected at the source. If the source is a belt with set, then my link belt did an excellent job of addressing the source of the problem.

5: Pink? Are you kidding me? :rolleyes: Mine is red


Under certain conditions, link belts are great, but one should not consider them to be the holy grail.

I'm not sure how you arrived at those conclusions. But when I fixed the vibration in my say 20+ years ago, the VX and notched V belts they have now were not available.

The only thing I would caution about a link belt is make sure you watch the direction arrows and get if on the pullies so it runs in the right direction. The can howl like a hound dog if you run them backwards.

[John Coloccia]

The general consensus on link belts is:

1: They are not rated for more than about 1/2 hp per belt.

2: When used at higher HP, they tend to stretch, flutter, and "bloom out," losing grip.

3: When used in pairs, they can stretch at uneven rates, causing a mis-match.

4: They are often used to compensate for a problem that really should be corrected at the source.

5: Pink? Are you kidding me? :rolleyes:


Under certain conditions, link belts are great, but one should not consider them to be the holy grail.

As far as I know, they are rated to the exact same horsepower as the belt you're replacing. They don't do #2 or #3 at all. I don't know what you mean by #4. When the problem is the belt needs to be replaced, at what other source should you correct the problem other than replacing the belt? I wonder if you have link belts confused with some other product?

[lowell holmes]

I had the linked belts on all of my power tools, but issues developed. IIRC, the belts slipped, made noise, and generally a pain in the tush.

Someone in this forum stated that cogged belts were preferable, would not slip, and would last. This was maybe 4 or 5 years ago.

The attached picture is the type of belt I'm talking about. They are available on Amazon. They also are available at auto parts stores.

I've had no issues with these belts. They are quiet, and don't develop a hard spot that bumps when running like the original v belts that came on the equipment.

316230

[Jason White]

Get a link belt. I put one on my 14" bandsaw. Huge improvement.

[Jerry Bruette]

The general consensus on link belts is:

1: They are not rated for more than about 1/2 hp per belt.

2: When used at higher HP, they tend to stretch, flutter, and "bloom out," losing grip.

3: When used in pairs, they can stretch at uneven rates, causing a mis-match.

4: They are often used to compensate for a problem that really should be corrected at the source.

5: Pink? Are you kidding me? :rolleyes:


Under certain conditions, link belts are great, but one should not consider them to be the holy grail.

You should take a trip over to the Fennerdrives.com website, they might change your mind on the misconceptions you have about link belts.

[Allan Speers]

As far as I know, they are rated to the exact same horsepower as the belt you're replacing. They don't do #2 or #3 at all. I don't know what you mean by #4. When the problem is the belt needs to be replaced, at what other source should you correct the problem other than replacing the belt? I wonder if you have link belts confused with some other product?


I'm stating what the general consensus is. I did a lot of research on belts, and these points are brought up constantly, by serious guys with lots of experience. I have no dog in this fight.

OK, I do have a dog in this fight, but it's a very SMALL dog and doesn't bark much. ;)

[Jerry Bruette]

Don't mean to be too picky here but that's actually a notched belt not cogged. A cogged belt would be a timing belt.

Only purpose for the notches is a better wrap, more contact, on a small diameter sheave.

They are designated by the letter X after the belt size. AX, BX, CX etc.

316230[/QUOTE]

[Jim German]

The general consensus on link belts is:

1: They are not rated for more than about 1/2 hp per belt.

2: When used at higher HP, they tend to stretch, flutter, and "bloom out," losing grip.

3: When used in pairs, they can stretch at uneven rates, causing a mis-match.

4: They are often used to compensate for a problem that really should be corrected at the source.

5: Pink? Are you kidding me? :rolleyes:


Under certain conditions, link belts are great, but one should not consider them to be the holy grail.

I agree with most of these. I tried one on my 2HP bandsaw and it slips under load. I still haven't been able to find a good replacement.

Also keep in mind that when most people talk about link-belts they mean ones like this http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/145530/4-Foot-of-12-Link-Belt.aspx .
There are a bunch of other types of link belts that are available at a significantly higher cost that may work better. McMaster has 3 differnt types http://www.mcmaster.com/#v-belts/=xry0je

[John Coloccia]

That's exactly what I use on my 3hp bandsaw. I drive a 1" Resaw King through 10" of hardwood with no slipping, stretching, fluttering or anything else. It really makes me wonder why there's so much variation in experience with these belts.

[Jim German]

That's exactly what I use on my 3hp bandsaw. I drive a 1" Resaw King through 10" of hardwood with no slipping, stretching, fluttering or anything else. It really makes me wonder why there's so much variation in experience with these belts.

Lots of variables involved besides just the belt. Alignment, Pulley finish and dimensions, power being transmitted. Can you stall the motor on your saw? Or does the belt slip? Could be that your carbide blade only needs 1hp to resaw.

[John Coloccia]

I've never stalled the motor or slipped the belt. I can slow down the motor if I'm ridiculously aggressive...far more aggressive than anyone would ever want to do.

[Rich Enders]

To review:

A 7 year old jointer V-belt failed, so I decided to replace the V-belt on the Ridgid bandsaw since it was similar in age.

The process:

-Based on suggestions in this post I replaced the Fuju A-980 with a Gates A38 (from Amazon). The result was significant vibration even after a 15 minute run in.

-Re-alligned the motor and saw pulleys with no improvement. Resawed some 7 inch maple for 30 minutes, and no change in the vibration.

-Re-installed the original Fuju, and the vibration disappeared.

-Installed a link belt (Power Twist Plus) and it vibrates somewhat more than the Fuju, but far less than the Gates.

-Larry suggested Optibelt so I left them a tech support request. Surprise, surprise their tech rep out of Wheaton, Illinois called me the next day. After reviewing the situation he recommended trying a HVAC A38. I failed to explore why an HVAC belt because until then I didn't know there was such a thing.

So maybe my Gates A38 Hi-Power II (from Amazon) should have been an HVAC A38??? I am confused.

For now I am going to stick with the Fuju A-980. I will keep the link belt as a back-up until I find something better.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Thanks for sharing your experience Rich. Sorry to hear about the trouble. I done know the High Power-II belts just the Gates AX series. Not sure what the difference is but the AX belts slightly reduced vibration on my 20" bandsaw. I hope you can get it sorted out to your satisfaction.

[John Gornall]

Back a number of years I worked in a large factory with automated production lines. A standard drive unit was used to run the hundreds of conveyors. There were problems with vee belts so we brought in an engineer from Goodyear. He explained how a vee belt works. When the belt wraps around a pulley the sides of the vee belly out and grip the pulley. A vee belt should never bottom in the pulley. The main reason vee belts vibrate is having them too tight. The vee belt grabs the pulley as it wraps around and the sides belly out and lets go of the pulley when the belt straightens out after the pulley rotation and the vee sides go back to being straight. But there is a transition from grip to free and if the belt is too tight it holds in the pulley for a moment. You can watch the vibration on the slack side of the belt. Most time reducing the belt tension will eliminate the vibration. I bought a Delta 17" drill press from a guy that had given up on it because of vibration - took it home and slackened off the belt - ran smooth as silk from then on. Great drill press for 50 bucks!

[Allan Speers]

Throwing yet another monkey into the wrench:


I recently read an article from some major industrial belt manufacturer, which said that having too much grip can actually be a bad thing. This article said that for systems without a soft-start circuit (which probably means almost all 1-ph induction motors) a little belt slippage under starting torque is actually designed into the system. Even for machines that don't start under high torque, the same design consideration goes for bogging down the motor: Better to have a little slippage in such a situation than to damage your belts.

I dunno, but it's something to consider. My 5 HP Grizzly band saw only uses two belts, and they are regular "A" types. Granted, this machine has a reputation for being slightly hard to adjust the belts "just right," but I doubt the Grizzly engineers decided to use an inferior system just to save about $2 on a $2300 saw.

I'm still looking to use AX instead of A or 4L belts on my PM 10 and maybe the Grizzly BS (or something even better, if I can figure out what that might be) but more because it should theoretically give less vibration.

- Or should it? :confused:

[Rich Enders]

John, and Allen

Thanks for sharing your experience on V-belt tightness. It sounds logical, and worth a try.

[glenn bradley]

The fact that a 2008 thread can breath new life into a discussion is impressive :)


The general consensus on link belts is:

Allan is taking some heat here but, it is possibly well deserved. The info in this general consensus does not fit with what I have been reading for years. I must have missed it the last decade of discussions on the forums I participate in :). I do recall a member here smoking some link belts on a shaper but, he did chastise himself for trying to take wayyyy too big a bite out of a long section of material and stated that the foolish act would have smoked anything.

1: They are not rated for more than about 1/2 hp per belt.

-- I have belts on 2HP and 3HP machines that see a reasonable amount of use. I'm a one man shop but, I'm busy.

2: When used at higher HP, they tend to stretch, flutter, and "bloom out," losing grip.

-- I have never had to adjust a link belt once installed. My 3HP jointer is nothing close to a soft-start and the belt is still under correct tension.

3: When used in pairs, they can stretch at uneven rates, causing a mis-match.

-- I cannot speak to this, no experience there.

4: They are often used to compensate for a problem that really should be corrected at the source.

-- This is indeed the way I first started using link-belts but, the yard sale contractor saw I was trying to smooth out was just built wrong; no fixing cheap-o. Since trying them on properly operating, decent machines and finding good service I just started installing them on new machines from the git-go

5: Pink? Are you kidding me? :rolleyes:

-- Well, red actually but, Fenner has Green and Gray as well if that's a problem :D.

I imagine, like anything there are knock-offs of name brand link-belts; Fenner, Jason Industrial (Jason Ind. makes the Harbor Freight belts), there may be others. There are probably also inappropriate places to use them and like anything used incorrectly, they could have failed to perform well. I do have a mix of HF and Fenner on a tool . . . speaking of colors mattering, I intermixed green and red sections because the belt is visible and I wondered what it would look like; it wasn't all that impressive :D. Anyway that's been my experience with them over a decade or so.

It is important to remember that we are all entitled to our opinions. Different viewpoints are what add value to forums like this. If we all agreed on everything, there wouldn't be much point in visiting now would there? I appreciate Allan's comments, they just don't match my own experience.

[ian maybury]

Must say it's not a field i've looked at closely in the woodworking context, but i'm kind of bemused at the way these discussions go.

Belts are engineered components made to stock sizes, and like most engineered components (bearings, chains etc) there's a requirement to work through the test data based selection process in the catalogue or data sheets to verify suitability. This for good quality stuff, less so for cheap rip offs where the quality is highly variable. When the latter is the case and there's no reliable data about then all bets are off. Dimensional errors, cheap materials, material variations, kinks, absence of reliable selection information and everything are in the mix in that case.

The straightforward route is to replace like with like - go for a quality belt with the same section and length which if the machine was correctly engineered day one should work fine. (lay a good one side by side with an Eastern cheapie, and the difference is generally pretty obvious)

If you're of a more sceptical mindset (and there's plenty of machines - especially drills and mill drills with e.g. pulley blocks where on some settings there are problems with use of too small pulleys to get enough grip to transmit the torque, and which bend a stock solid belt more tightly than is advisable at a given RPM) - then it's a case of sitting down with the catalogue and working through the selection procedure. It's quite likely in those cases that a notched belt will do better, as it'll handle a tighter bend.

It's important to verify that the pulleys are in good shape - not worn/the belt dropping down too low (if it bottoms out in the groove then it can't 'lock in' and must slip), dimensionally and shape wise correct (a good belt is the simplest method of checking), are clean and have regular surfaces, are running true etc.

If the belt and pulley selection checks out for the worst case situations (max HP, max torque, potential for impact/shock/start up loadings etc, max/min RPM, pulley diameters etc) and hopefully has some spare capacity then just buy the belt in a good make. If it's not correctly engineered, then there may be some options to upgrade to a better spec of belt on the same pulleys - but it's again a case of taking a supplier suggestion or whatever and verifying it by working through the relevant data based selection procedure. There's no magic or hocus locus - it's a straightforward case of the belt either being suitable or not.

Depending on budget, space availability etc there may be the option in the event of serious problems with the engineeering of the existing drive to switch to a totally different pulley and belt type - maybe. Again to be verified by working through the selection procedure. (it's even more important given the high cost to get it right this time)

You may find in the end that there's a fundamental design problem with the drive, but working through the procedure will at least mean that you know what the probelm is and what you need to fix it. The alternative is to keep throwing belts on the machine, and never know why they are failing. The land of myth and magic....