(2) 200 amp panels?

[James Jaragosky]

Well I got the engineer from duke energy out to my home / shop (I use a 3 car attached garage) today. I wanted to know what it would take to increase my service to 400 amps from 200. what he suggested was just adding on a 400 amp meter base that could handle (2) 200 amp panels and keep my home on one and the garage on the other.
My question: Has anyone else done this and how has it worked out for you.

[Chris Friesen]

Have you done a service load calculation to determine whether or not the service actually needs to be increased?

If it does, then his suggestion makes sense to me. No point messing with the house panel if it's big enough for current (and immediate future) needs.

[John Eaton]

Something else to check into is to have a 3 phase lead dropped to a meter - someone in my neighborhood did this and it opened up a lot of possibilities for cheap, used equipment (he's got a PM66 plus some other 3fay out in his shop - also a converted 2 bay carport). From what he was telling me, they didn't want to do the drop but then he told them he works from the shop and they relented. Your mileage may vary.

-- John

[Ken Fitzgerald]

James...I used the opposite approach. My house is on one meter and it's own service panel. My shop has it's own meter and it's own 200 amp service panel.

[Von Bickley]

James,

I am presently living in a pole building with a 400 amp service. I have a 200 amp panel in the building that provides power to my shop and our temporary living area. I have a weatherproof 200 amp breaker mounted next to the 400 amp meter can that provide power to the 200 amp panel in the house.

I also have a 60 amp panel mounted in the building that has a manual transfer switch in it. With this panel I can provide power with a generator to my well, refrigerators, a couple of receptacles, and some lights. The manual transfer switch prevents me from backfeeding power on the utility lines.

I went with the 400 amp service for a couple of reasons.
1. I don't have a meter can on the house.
2. I will only get one electric bill and it will be at a lower rate for
residential use.

PS:
James,
If your shop will be used for a business, you may want separate utility bills for taxes.....

[David G Baker]

400 Amps is one heck of a lot of amperage unless you are running a serious commercial shop with tools that have real heavy current draw and a lot of people working for you. If you are that big then you need to go 3 phase.
If you are running a business then Von's suggestion of 2 meters for tax purposes is a good idea. If you are not using the power as a business then you may pay an extra amount per month for the 2nd meter whether you use any power or not.
I am racking my brain trying to figure out why you would need the 400 amp service if you aren't commercial.

[James Jaragosky]

400 Amps is one heck of a lot of amperage unless you are running a serious commercial shop with tools that have real heavy current draw and a lot of people working for you. If you are that big then you need to go 3 phase.
If you are running a business then Von's suggestion of 2 meters for tax purposes is a good idea. If you are not using the power as a business then you may pay an extra amount per month for the 2nd meter whether you use any power or not.
I am racking my brain trying to figure out why you would need the 400 amp service if you aren't commercial.
Currently I Have one 200 amp meter base and one 200 amp breaker panel.
my highest usage has been around 95 amps in February but I have a 3000 sq ft home with elect everything (no gas) and a hot tub.
currently using local code as a guide my panel is maxed out, not my amps, just number and size of breakers and what is allowed to be hooked to them.
I wanted a 3phase drop, that's why the engineer came out, but he balked and suggested I use one 400 amp meter base ( one meter) and a second 200 amp panel. the meter base will have connections inside to add the second panel but one meter. hope this clears up any confusion.
and thanks for the suggestions.
I'll try for a 3 phase drop again but I am not holding my breath the power company can be real stubborn when they want to be.

[Matt Meiser]

Actually my cousin, who is an electrician in St. Louis, said 400A service is becoming fairly common down there, especially for "rural estates" with outbuildings. I think its common to use two panels in those installations.

[Rollie Meyers]

That is quite common in some parts of the country, a 320 ampere meter can w/ lugs that are rated to handle 2 conductors pre lug,here in California it's "All In One" land where there is a meter socket, 2 - 200A breakers and may or may not have a 200A 40 circuit distribution panel fed from one of the 200A mains all in one nice neat package.

[Matt Robinette]

When I built my shop in 2000 I moved my service from overhead to under ground,I set a 400 amp base. 100' to the meter base from the street and 125' from the base to the shop. The co op ran Al from the street to the base and I ran copper to the shop. Both the house and shop have 200 amp boxes. It works out great I may never need all the current that it will supply but it was a once and done deal never having to worry about upgrading later.

[Rob Damon]

When I had my 1200 sf shop built 8 months ago, we replaced the 200amp meter with a 320 amp meter base. One set of lugs back fed into the house 200amp panel and the second set of lugs fed out to the new shop building 200amp panel.

Surprisingly, Dominion Virginia Power did the work "hot". They cut and spliced the existing underground service lateral cable "hot" into the new meter after our contractor had run the cables to back feed the house and out to the shop.

One thing I did extra, was to put in a separate 200amp circuit breaker that feeds a 200amp main lugs only panel in my shop building. I did this so that I could shutoff the 200amp circuit breaker next to the panel and work in complete safety in the panel without anything being "hot". Even the feeder cable between the 200amp circuit breaker and the panel is "dead".

So far everything has work out great. The only downside is that if we ever add a whole house generator, that I won't be able to back feed into the shop building. If we had changed the main panel in the house to a 400amp panel and put a 200amp branch breaker to feed the shop panel, we could have had the generator feed both the house and the shop. That was the only downside.

The other option would have been to have a separate service lateral from the Dominion pole at the front of the property. The downside to that was that Dominion was going to treat it as a separate service and I would have two meter charges on my monthly bill, instead of one. They also would have charged for running the underground cable to the building, since we are not in a "mandatory" underground area (some of the houses in the neighborhood still have overhead service drops to the house) and they did not feel that with the intermitted use of the tools that I would be generating enough additional revenue to get a good payback to cover the installation of the new underground service. So by changing the meter only, I have just one meter charge and they did not charge for the change out of the meter.

Rob

[David G Baker]

James,
Guess I am living in the dark ages where I try my best to not use a lot of electricity if possible. I have read articles about the amperage required for some of the new large homes but did not realize just how much.
I did pretty much the same thing you plan on doing. I had a 200 amp service put in and installed two 100 amp breakers in the main panel and put 2 100 amp panels in my basement fed through the separate breakers so I could have power while I worked on wiring parts of my house and not have to worry about working hot.
I have heard horror stories about how some utility companies will provide 3 phase to residential areas but make the cost so high that most folks end up not switching over.

[Mike Henderson]

Something else to check into is to have a 3 phase lead dropped to a meter - someone in my neighborhood did this and it opened up a lot of possibilities for cheap, used equipment (he's got a PM66 plus some other 3fay out in his shop - also a converted 2 bay carport). From what he was telling me, they didn't want to do the drop but then he told them he works from the shop and they relented. Your mileage may vary.

-- John
Good luck getting three phase in a residential area. In my area, they don't even run three phase into the housing development - only single phase. To get three phase, there must be three "hot" wires on the feeder poles, and to give you three phase, they have to put in three transformers to drop the voltage down.

Mike

[James Jaragosky]

James,
Guess I am living in the dark ages where I try my best to not use a lot of electricity if possible. I have read articles about the amperage required for some of the new large homes but did not realize just how much.
I did pretty much the same thing you plan on doing.

David nothing is every wrong with trying to conserve, I just want to use what I have safely.
I could double up breakers and daisy chain outlets but I want to do this right, after all I sleep here at night. I really don't need a fire, or worse someone electrocuted because of improper wiring due to my cheapness.
To that end I have purchased a 400 amp base and another 200 amp panel both new off the flea bay for $800 the base has a 200 amp breaker included and the panel comes with a full set of breakers, both are made by Siemens.
I feel that I could do this job myself but have decided to get a electrician to do the installation. some things should be left to the professionals.
I would like to thank everyone for taking the time to help me with my decision.
Jim J.

[Mike Cutler]

James

No worries bro' You're going it about it in the right direction.

Nobody uses 400 amps on a continuous basis, in fact I doubt a clamp on amp meter in a residential dwelling will ever see 1/2 of the 200 amp rating unless the person has a welding machine, or a pottery kiln going.

400 amp service split between 2 panels gives you all the flexibility you need to divide, isolate, and distribute your circuits meeting all code requirements and panel manufacturer spec's.

I have an all electric home also. I have six 240 breakers for heat, another 240 breaker for hot water, another for for the well pump, laundry occupies another 240 2 pole position, and a final 240 for the garage subpanel. With a 30/40 panel and you start to run out room quick.;)

Should be a nice set up when you get done.

[Jack Mincey]

Hi James,
I have a 200 amp panel in my home and in my new shop that is less than 70 feet from my back door. Starting this spring Duke Energy in N.C. will put a underground line in from your Tranformer to a new meter for free. To make it even better there is no minimum monthly bill on the meter. You pay for what you use only. Since I sell a few things that I make and claim it as income, the seperate meter on my shop allows me to use the power used in my shop as a tax right off.
Jack

[Dave Lessley]

James,

I originally had a 125 amp panel in my pump house feeding a 14x70 mobile home with an overhead wire feeding a 60 amp sub panel in the shop. When I built my home I did not want the meter on the side of the house. For them to move it to the transformer they wanted 400 amps of service and $400.00 to relocate the meter.so I put a 200amp panel in the house and upgraded the shop to 200amps. At the same time I put the wires feeding the shop underground. I also dropped a second conduit to the house in case I or anyone else down the road felt they needed more service to the house. It was some additional expense up front but now that I'm rebuilding my shop I don't have to worry about if I have enough. I have plenty of room for breakers and have been able to split circuits up as I think I need or want to. I will most likely run a sub panel off the shop for lights and an outlet or two for my tractor shed.

[Wayne Cannon]

It should be obvious, but no one has mentioned that your electric service drop will likely need to be upgraded -- at least to the nearest pole/box. Some companies (including mine) charge you thousands of dollars (the full cost of crew, backhoe, bucket truck, etc., plus a "permit fee" for increasing the service).

[Ken Fitzgerald]

It should be obvious, but no one has mentioned that your electric service drop will likely need to be upgraded -- at least to the nearest pole/box. Some companies (including mine) charge you thousands of dollars (the full cost of crew, backhoe, bucket truck, etc., plus a "permit fee" for increasing the service).

Wayne....some charge nothing as it's their responsibility to get power to the meter base. That is how my utility company worked it with me. I had to provide the service entry and meter base with an appropriately sized pig tail coming out of the service entry (in my case overhead). The utility company ran the service drop to my pig tail; made the connection and installed the meter.

[James Jaragosky]

Wayne....some charge nothing as it's their responsibility to get power to the meter base. That is how my utility company worked it with me. I had to provide the service entry and meter base with an appropriately sized pig tail coming out of the service entry (in my case overhead). The utility company ran the service drop to my pig tail; made the connection and installed the meter.

My Current line drop from the street is rated for 390 amps according to the duke engineer, which should be able to supply 325 max sustained amps, again according to the engineer. so I'm ok there. but if it had not been up to par they, do the drop for free. but the base is on my dime. just 15 mile south is a different power company and they even supply the base.
The panel came by fedx today, brand new just like they said. And it shipped in less than 24 hrs, dam that's fast.