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Johnny Kleso
08-25-2008, 5:43 PM
I just finished an order for screws for Ron Brese's new big infill planes nad thought I would share them with you all..

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-1-2.jpg

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-2-2.jpg

They have a 7/16-14 thread and then heads are 7/8" Dia. in the Norris Style...

Doug Shepard
08-25-2008, 6:00 PM
Nice work. They're going to love their new home. But did the specs change on his cap screws? Ron had told me they were 3/8-16. And maybe it's just the extreme closeup but is the chamfer on the top edge new (or larger)? It doesn't look as flat and I'm wondering if that's going to make inlaying and leveling the special edition versions harder.

Johnny Kleso
08-25-2008, 6:18 PM
This is the design Ron and I came up with..

He did say something about inlaying some, he could answer you better.. Should be here later as I sent him a link to see pics..

The larger thread was my idear...

I think he also wants some 3/8-16 screws and maybe those will get the inlay..

Bruce Page
08-25-2008, 6:45 PM
They look very nice, I like the angled knurl.
I don’t see any thread relief so obviously they were done on a cnc lathe.

Joel Goodman
08-25-2008, 6:54 PM
Beautiful as all your work is! Thanks again for the burnisher. I've saving up for one of Ron's masterpieces.

Ron Brese
08-25-2008, 7:05 PM
Doug,

In the very near future I will be changing over from the stainless screws that I've used in the past to these premium brass lever cap screws for all models and versions of the full size smoothers. However I still hope for you and I to complete the lever cap screw project with the special inlay that we've been conspiring about.(grin)

Johnny has done a wonderful job of creating these new parts and this was actually my first look at the completed screws. The design on these screws was much more of a collaboration than Johnny lets on.

Ron Brese

Doug Shepard
08-25-2008, 8:37 PM
Doug,

In the very near future I will be changing over from the stainless screws that I've used in the past to these premium brass lever cap screws for all models and versions of the full size smoothers. However I still hope for you and I to complete the lever cap screw project with the special inlay that we've been conspiring about.(grin)
...


Shhhhhhhh:D

Johnny Kleso
08-25-2008, 10:28 PM
Bruce,
They where made on a 9x36 South Bend
They are two piece as most folks make them..

I am making some 5/16-18 screws and think they will be one piece as the head is kind of small...

philip marcou
08-27-2008, 6:53 AM
Yes, very nice. But what are they doing on the bottom of the swimming pool/are they naval brass?:)

Brian Kent
08-27-2008, 11:09 AM
Did you make it with one of these new-fangled metal-working machines?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTsrf2OoBCk

Johnny Kleso
08-27-2008, 1:18 PM
Nope!
One of these :)

http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/img1.gif

Johnny Kleso
08-28-2008, 5:39 PM
I almost finished so more screws for Ron,these are 5/16-18 threads and one piece construction..

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-10.jpg

After taking posting images I noticed the surface finish isn't up to par.. You can see it has a mirror fnish in the image below right side but you also see the tool marks :(

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/screw/screw-11.jpg

Bruce Page
08-28-2008, 7:39 PM
"Bruce,
They where made on a 9x36 South Bend
They are two piece as most folks make them.."

I didn’t realize that they were 2 piece construction. How do you keep them from separating, Loctite?

Johnny Kleso
08-28-2008, 7:47 PM
RED Loctite and having the tap depth at least the same size as the thread 7/16"

Trust me it works well, 5mins after I put one together I wanted to take it apart, I would have had to trash both parts and even them it might not have..

Alan DuBoff
09-10-2008, 3:49 AM
They look very nice, I like the angled knurl.
I don’t see any thread relief so obviously they were done on a cnc lathe.
I was pondering over what you said here, trying to understand, and I think I understand what you were commenting on to Johnny...in that the relief you speak of would be at minimum, half the width of the cutter if the 60 degree tip is centered. At least that would get you to the center of thread, if the cutter is up against the screw cap, is that correct?

What I don't understand is that on the 2 piece screw it doesn't matter since it is not being cut on the lathe, but on the one piece screws that Johnny also pictured in this thread it appears that the thread is cut up close to the cap also, but my eyes are not good enough to tell in these pics, but a couple appear to have some relief that you mention above, but it is very small. I guess you could use a very small 60 degree cutter on the end of a boring bar. I have only cut threads with a standard 1/4" or 3/16" cutter and with one of those I think the thread can only be cut up to half the width of the cutter from the screw cap.

How would a cnc cut that any differently though? It would seem to have the same limitation, no?

John Smithe
04-10-2011, 10:12 PM
in a one piece screw a cnc can leave 1/2 the cutter width...most people cannot...as you have to pull out the cross slide and stop the feed simultaneously without hitting either the base of the head or over cutting the end of the thread and snapping your tool, a computers reflexes are a 'little' faster than most peoples, and are programed for repeatability to end the thread at the exact same spot... i know some machinist that are very good...but even they leave a little more room than a cnc needs

george wilson
04-10-2011, 11:40 PM
I grind V threading tools off center,with the tip being close to the left side of the operator's position. You don't have to make the depth of the threading tool any deeper than the maximum depth of thread on the left side. That will help you get closer to a shoulder. If you want to get right up to the shoulder,you can make a hand crank that is inserted into the outboard end of the lathe spindle,and turn the lathe by hand until the tool gets very close to the shoulder.

Another thing you can do is cut the thread till a threading die will fit it. Then,put the die into the stock backwards so it has no bevel towards the shoulder. Then,thread the die right up to the shoulder.

None of these methods will make a thread that is like one that threads right into the cap,though,which disappears right into the cap.

I never felt that having threads clear up to the shoulder was a requirement,though. I don't think the old ones were made threaded right up to the shoulder. Not if they were made from solid,which I believe they all were. The cap screw is never screwed in all the way up to the cap anyway.

Johnny Kleso
04-11-2011, 12:04 AM
Like George said the tool is not shharpened like a V but more like this |\ with a very small angle at the tip this way / so you can come close up to the shoulder..

For small er threads I use a Greenfield Lil Giant Die that is adjustable in size..
In fact I use three dies now and did use two..

I use the first with chamfers foward for easy cutting and set to cut an way over sized, then use one or two with chamfers backwards to cut size and full threads as close to shoulder as I can..

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/GREENFIELD-TAP-DIE-TapDie-Set-4ALF1?Pid=search

For Acme Threads I use a 1/8" parting tool with a full raidus to make a undercut for tool to safeley stop in..
With cutting threads with a tool bit (single pointing) you want the speed as fast as you can for small threads but as slow as you need so you can safley stop the tool before it crashs into the shoulder.. That mmeans beginners use the slowest speed the lathe has.. I only use 2nd speed after 30 years of experience :)

I'll try and post some photos tomorrow as I have some parts to finish.. I have been feeling prety well the last few days at last, Thanks God :)

Klaus Kretschmar
04-11-2011, 1:35 AM
Those screws look terriffic indeed. Great craftsmanship, classic design and flawlessly done - top notch as the planes are they will ornament.

Hmmm, looking at the pics closely I think that the lever cap screw on my Brese plane kit which I completed a few weeks ago, went through your hands, too.

191123

Klaus

Matt Evans
04-11-2011, 1:52 AM
This was a relatively new thread when I joined in 2008. . .nice to see that it still gets brought up. They do look terrific.

george wilson
04-11-2011, 9:29 AM
For my own work,I have used an acme type thread,because that is what was used on the old planes. I have made special taps to thread the holes they go into,though. It isn't a true Acme thread,but similar to one .I have seen them on the old planes,and use it myself.

The cap screws I have sent out have a regular V thread,so the recipient can manage to tap his holes with standard taps.

On my Hardinge HLVH,a great lathe for threading,there is a special quick withdrawal lever that jumps the compound right back as you near a shoulder. Also,there are adjustable feed stop rods that will stop the tool within .001" accuracy every time. I have used this when threading lids for round boxes,where the lid is only 1/4" deep. Or,in the past,on regular type lathes,I have threaded upside down and backwards to thread my way OUT of a shallow hole,while getting maximum possible thread depth,and still cutting a right hand thread.

I haven't done it myself,but making a crank and hand turning the lathe is about the simplest and surest way to thread to maximum possible length or depth. I have turned the lathe by hand,just using a chuck wrench,to cut some threads that didn't strain the chuck.

george wilson
04-11-2011, 12:57 PM
Another cap screw,but on a brass indexing head I made for my rotary table. Well,I see the cap is out of focus!! Here's a better one,but I can't get the bad image to leave.

Martin Shupe
04-16-2011, 1:51 PM
Beautiful work, as always, Johnny!

Johnny Kleso
04-17-2011, 1:35 PM
Klaus,
Yes I have made all of Ron''s screws as far as I know, except when he used store bought...

Your screw must have been the batch after this photo as it has a deeper knurl and not buffed to a polish..
Ron had told me he had to de-polish them as they where too shiny so I stopped the buffing..

When I felt better I made saw screws for several of starting saw makers on the net..
When I get time I'll make a video on how to if your ever intrested to make your own..

Johnny Kleso
04-17-2011, 1:54 PM
191792191791191790191789Here are some pics of them
191788
Drill Press is what I use to mmake screwdriver slot
These pics show screws when I milled square on, I know use a safe edge (face) 10" mill file and index lathe chuck by eye four times and file the round to square.. I use a Pot Chuck to hold nuts while slotting them on drill press

To make a pot chuck, I used a 6" long piece of round stock and hack sawed it down the middle 3"
I then counter bored a hole the OD of the saw nut and drilled a hole in center to clear when tapping..
I then drilled and tapped a hole vertical to the hack saw slot so when screw is tighten it squeezes making counter bore tighten..
I use this finture in the drill press to hole saw nut to add screwdriver slot and to tap holes in the lathe..

Klaus Kretschmar
04-17-2011, 2:59 PM
Hello Johnny,

when I saw those pics of lever the cap screws, I knew that mine came from you. It´s perfectly crafted for sure. Concerning the saw screws I´ll shoot you a PM!

Regards

george wilson
04-17-2011, 3:26 PM
That looks like a model B Southbend lathe,Johnny. Does it have the power crossfeed?

Johnny Kleso
04-18-2011, 12:38 AM
Hi George,
Yes I think its a Model A or C cant remember how the letter run but this has crossfeed..
Its the full feed model :) Getting old hehe

george wilson
04-18-2011, 8:42 AM
If it has the crossfeed,but not the quick change gearbox it must be the model B. Model A had everything,C had no power crossfeed,or quick change gear box.

Scott MacLEOD2
07-26-2011, 12:52 AM
Johnny. I looked at your drill press setup but must be missing something. Did you use a slitting saw or something similar to cut the slot?

thanks Scott

george wilson
07-26-2011, 8:58 AM
If he finished the threads with a threading die,you can just turn the die around backwards ,where there is no tapered entrance,and thread just about all the way to the shoulder,leaving a very short unthreaded area.

The magnified pictures will show up imperfections much larger than they really are. I'm sure they look just fine,Johnny.

Very neat knurling.

Johnny Kleso
07-26-2011, 12:34 PM
Johnny. I looked at your drill press setup but must be missing something. Did you use a slitting saw or something similar to cut the slot?

thanks Scott

Yes I have a 1/2" slitting saw arbor in a MT2-1/2" adapter and use the DP to cut the screw driver slots for Hand Saw Screws..

George,
Your right in the pic it is still a Model B I forgot to add I added the Quick Change Box to it a few years ago..

Pic of some new Acme 1/2-10 threads ready to ship tomorrow
203123

Johnny Kleso
07-27-2011, 1:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nHWCRAGUCw
Really bad videos on how to make lever cap screws, I hope to make a better version soon..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilfNKIijLnM
Cutting Acme Thread


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqyTw065mpI
Roughing stock to start threading

I hope to do a knurling video also..

ENJOY

george wilson
07-27-2011, 9:30 AM
Johnny, I'm glad to see you have a quick change gearbox. From another picture you put up,I thought you didn't. Never have owned a South Bend,though I did use one in high school in 1959. Actually,I did rebuild a S.B. 14" to sell back in the 1970's. After rebuilding some other lathes,I decided there were easier in the back ways to make money!!

george wilson
07-27-2011, 11:55 AM
So,Johnny,the lathe in post #25 has no QC gearbox. Do you have 2 S.B. lathes?

Johnny Kleso
07-27-2011, 12:54 PM
No George, I had to drill one hole in the bed ways to add the QC..
I got the gear box on eBay.. Lots of dealers break down SB's and part them out..
I bet they sell a few QC's ever week..

http://business.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=south+bend+lathe&_sacat=11804&_odkw=&_osacat=11804&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1311

george wilson
07-27-2011, 1:08 PM
Great!! Now you have a Model A,which has power cross feed and the QC box. I know that the QC box is making life for you a LOT easier.

Several years ago I had bought a nearly unused Logan 10" lathe without a QC box for my step father. At the time,in the 80's,very few machines came my way,so I was glad to get the lathe. This lathe still had the original abrasive marks from the factory on the knobs!! A metal spinner I knew had been keeping it for many years,but never used it,and decided it was too small (and probably too light) for his work.

After he died,I inherited it and,having no room for another lathe,sold it to a friend. By then,I was dealing regularly with a used machine dealer who wasn't around earlier. We found a Logan QC box. It was for a different model. We had to do some alterations that I can't recall,and got it on the lathe. It was a big difference.