Black Granite Lathe.. Variable Drill press

[John Thompson]

If you have seen the Popular WW site video on Steel City, you already know about the new granite bed on the jointer with helical heads. They also showed the black granite bottom drive wheel on the 14" deluxe BS. But there are a few other things they did not show.

A variable speed available on the already proven 17" drill press so both standard and variable are available.

A 16" portable (sort of) planer with a granite bed and helical cutters..

13" portable planer with helical heads..

A new 16" stationary planer with helical head and helical head available on the 20" stationary planer..

A new.. large cast iron lathe..

And last but not least... a black granite bed lathe (not a mini but not a full size) available in both standard and variable speed.

Just thought I would point these out as I have seen no mention or video on any WW mag site yet.

Ya;ll have a good day as I have to figure out how to get a 500 lb. TS off a pick-up by myself that took 5 to get it on. Any 5000 year old or older Egyptians that helped get those large stone up on the pyramids please PM me with advice. :)

Sarge..

[Frank Drew]

Interesting; is this solid granite or reconstituted in some form, like a granite version of particleboard or mdf?

I can see how it might be cheaper than cast iron but I'd be concerned about fragility and the possibility of a hidden flaw, if these are actually solid.

But certainly interesting, in any case.

[Wilbur Pan]

A new.. large cast iron lathe..

Any pictures/info on this?

[John Thompson]

The top is similar to the granite top for the tablesaw, Frank. 1 1/2" thick solid black granite water jet cut and ground to within .001 from one slab. Re-enforced with Stainless Steel bars that are expoxied in. Only black granite of high grade will do as grey granite can have streaks of grain that can crack.

I have been testing a granite jointer fence for a year that has been subjected on the back side to me hitting it pretty hard with a 7/8" metal wrench just to see if it would chip. It didn't then nor having run into it with 12' 12/4 stock ends I have swung and accidentally bumped as my jointer sits near my wood rack.

And... the TS top has been out more than a year. No breakages so far and they don't anticipate one. Much stress testing was done before it went to market over a year ago as when you have a 5 Year Warranty you don't want to put a product out that will put you out of business with come-backs. The granite has a 5 Year Warranty as all other Steel City tools and 5 Years mean 5 YEARS.. Simple as that!

I got in a hurry getting the pictures before the Show one morning and forgot to get a shot of the cast iron lathe. I can probably get some in a week or so and post. It is over 50" I believe between center (lathes are not my forte) and has a very smooth Nova head. The gentleman that owns Nova in New Zealand worked from the SC booth in the rear corner. Very nice and very knowledge-able about lathes.

Sorry I forgot to get the lathe...

Sarge..

[Jacob Mac]

It is a really intriguing idea, but I also wonder about the durability. I'm not implying that it isn't durable, just that I am not completely sold on the idea yet. But as I begin to buy tools that I hope will last me a very long time, I will definitely look into these.

[John Thompson]

I can't give you a picture of what the granite will do down the road Jacob as it has never been done. But.. it won't rust and it won't warp as Cast iron can from internal stresses. Even with the most scrutinized quality control making cast iron.. if the carbon is not dispersed evenly stress can lie under the surface that can cause cracking. Cast iron is not steel as many think of it. It is much softer.. much more prone to rust and much more prone to crack.

I wouldn't suggest hitting the granite with a ball peen hard... but on the other hand I certainly wouldn't reccomend hitting cast iron with a ball peen either. For those that might do that... I'm sure the manufacturer would hope that they purchase from someone else. :)

But... time will tell as it has a way of doing. With the cost of cast iron almost doubling over the last year... there may be a time that granite is much cheaper as it's price has remained stable. With the economy as it is... don't be surprised to see Manufacturer's raising prices in the near future as cast iron and the cost of shipping Conex containers have risen sharply along with domestic carrier prices.

Power-matic has already announced a price increase I believe in September... I suspect there will be more. Just my opinion based on some comments of the manufacturers I got to meet over the last week or so.

Sarge..

[John Thompson]

BTW... several ask me to look at a few things for them at IWF. I did but my notebook got lost in tear-down last Saturday. So.... I have no idea who ask what so......

Laguna Platinum TS.... Two models currently. One for around $1900 and the other $1500-$1600? I would forget the saw for less as it has a different lowering system with the more expensive using a dove-tail set up. The saws are both made in China.

Not a bad saw with a T-square type fence similar to a newer style Biesemeyer. 3 HP as most cabinets with splitters. So my over-all impression was not a bad saw for the money but not the saw you could get for the same amount.

I took home a 5 HP SC that has a fence like the older Biesemeyer design with a bolt on back that has a nylon pad that slides on the real rail to make it glide like silk. Larger one piece trunnions and the table is ground close to perfection along with other very heavy cast iron components well made in Taiwan as this saw is not made in their China factory.

So.. in comparison of the two saws... the Platinum is a good saw.... just not a great saw for the $$ being ask.

*****************

Shopfox 7 1/2 HP vs Shopfox 10 HP wide sanders.
Both machines have the basic same guts and those were good. The real difference in price comes from the 7 1/ HP and the 10 HP motors and the difference in the width they will handle.

Upon grilling the SF technician... the 10 HP has an air system and the 7 1/2 HP has a plastic eye. The eyes do get clogged easily with the air system not having any problems. So.. both are very good machines with HP.. width being the major difference the air system on the larger getting the nod over the plastic eye on the smaller.

Sarge..

[Frank Drew]

Thanks for all the additional information, John. And I like the rust free quality of the stone, although in my own limited experience I've noticed much better rust resistance with cast iron than with steel, even on the same tool -- e.g. the drill press cast table was rust free while the steel column rusted badly, and the same happened with some other tools in the same shop. Perhaps conditions particular to that environment, though.

[John Thompson]

Thanks for all the additional information, John. And I like the rust free quality of the stone, although in my own limited experience I've noticed much better rust resistance with cast iron than with steel, even on the same tool -- e.g. the drill press cast table was rust free while the steel column rusted badly, and the same happened with some other tools in the same shop. Perhaps conditions particular to that environment, though.

I have the same trouble with my DP column also, Frank. But I must add that the nature of it's design doesn't find me taking care of it as tables are much easier to access. I suppose that's as much my own fault as the steel rusting. The steel comparison was not on rust really... but the hardness in general as cast iron is much softer as you know and much more brittle.

BTW.. I have a Steel City 5 HP TS (with cast iron table) sitting on the back of my truck I brought home Saturday evening. 5 of us lifted it up there and just me with help coming to get it down in a day or so. It's under a tarp as we've gotten rain for several days with intermitten sunshine in between off TS Fay.

I re-coated with thick Boeshield yesterday with heavy rain last night and humidity today. I pulled the tarp back a few hours ago and 3 rust spots. I don't know if the tarp had tiny punctures or just the humidilty did it. I got it early and it came off. Then added about 1/4" of more Boeshield T 9 and I'm not kidding. I am going to check every 4 hours or so until I can get the help needed to get it down. :D

But... that's life and I live with reality... ha.. ha....

Sarge..

[Wilbur Pan]

Although I do think that granite is a great solution for things like machinery tables and fences, and that I don't think that bouncing things off of them will cause any significant damage or affect how they work, I do wonder about its durability in a lathe. If you've ever bounced a gouge off of a lathe or felt the impact of a rough blank on a turning tool as you're trying to knock the corners off of it, you'll know why. ;)

[John Thompson]

Again.. lathes aren't my forte. The head.. tail.. etc. are metal with the bed being the re-enforce granite and very thick. I don't have a lathe and would love to have one so consequently I would love to field test it to see just how well it does hold up as I did the jointer fence.

So.. once it is out I suggest you go to local distributor to see just how it is done. I can tell you the granite is much heavier than cast iron and it certainly held down any vibration issue from a bench top as we had it set on. We didn't even bolt it down.

But... time will tell and I will keep an open mind as you seem to be doing. I might just get one to try out... who knows at this point?

Regards...

Sarge..

[Kevin Groenke]

Any information on availability dates on this equipment John? I've been shopping for a new VS drill press for some time but have been reluctant to take the plunge on the PM or Delta. The SC would be an alternative well worth consideration.

-kg

[John Thompson]

The date they are shooting for is late fall Kevin. Of course this is a prototype that just arrived for the show. To get it OKed to produce will take place soon. But you have to educated quess on production time and time across the pond as shipping by boat means they might make other docks between here and there on the way,

The most difficult thing about getting Conex containers is the time on the water as who really knows how long before it hits a given ship with a given route determiined. It just boils back down to an enducated guess based on previous track records.

I will keep you posted on what I hear as I do check in often to get questions answered... I have a feeling the question you asked will be the most asked..

Regards...

Sarge..

[Brian Effinger]

Ooooohhhhhh a granite bed lathe...
95551

I'm drooling already :D

[Wilbur Pan]

But... time will tell and I will keep an open mind as you seem to be doing. I might just get one to try out... who knows at this point?

Oh, definitely I'm keeping an open mind. Maybe if I get one to try out as well....? ;)

Do you remember what the swing on the granite mini lathe was? 12", I hope?

[John Thompson]

Not exactly a mini (which they already have in cast iron) as I stated as the bed lenght is over 40" if I remember correctly. I slid the tail. etc. into the dovetail slot on that end and I think the head is attached to the granite. That is done by using a diamond drill to drill a hole then epoxy to bond the threaded metal insert you bolt into. But again.. going on memory.


On memory I do believe the swing is at least 10" and probably 12". But I will find out tomorrow and post it for you as my memory is not once what it was and after helping assemble that many machines... I was somewhat brain dead the week we assembled it. Once we did we re-crated it assembled to avoid snooping eyes. hee....

Regards...

Sarge..

[Dave Lehnert]

And... the TS top has been out more than a year. No breakages so far and they don't anticipate one.

The Popular Woodworking shop has a granite top cabinet saw that got chipped in shipping. Small but noticeable.

[Dave Lehnert]

I could be talked into a granite jointer fence or a Granite top table saw but not too sure I could pull the trigger on a bandsaw with a granite wheel. That I would have to see to believe.
I do give them credit for doing something different. May turn out to be the standard. In a few years we may be saying "don't buy a saw with cheap cast iron wheels" LOL!!!!!

[John Thompson]

Hey Dave.. I'll try to kill two birds with one stone. I was not aware of the Popular WW shop's talbe being chipped in shipping and there may be more that got that way in shipping as the truck guys generally couldn't qualify for a second job in a hospital maternity Ward. :D

I've seen a ton of Uni-saw trunnions damaged in shipping as "sometimes" the guys aren't so gentle on shipping dock. That's why Delta had so many factory re-conditions for sale. Once on a shop floor the problem was basically licked with the now older Uni-saw's weak left rear trunnion component as the trunnion was not a one piece as the new one is.

I was kind of referring to cracked or broken which could also happen in shipping and easily enough if you have ever worked at a freight carrier as I have many years ago. But.. I have a feeling the Popular WW guys (who I got to meet last week) bothered to call to report it. I bet they threw some epoxy in the chip.. smoothed it out after it dried and went about their business which is WW.

I would do the same in that case. If I had a damaged part that was fundamental to the machine operating properly.. I would report it to be replaced. But I would have just fixed the chip as mentioned and got on with it as I really care little about the cosmetic end. Even a dent in a base doesn't bother me as it won't hinder what I intend for it to do. :)

On the granite wheel.. Actually I wish my 18" SC BS had one. I got to use that 14" machine last week. The wheel is perfectly balanced.. weighs a ton and when it starts turning it produces some kind of torque as it it the drive wheel. So.. I will relate the torque to producing more HP than the motor is actually capable of delivering with a cast iron wheel as the granite is almost twice as heavy. Quite frankly I would have added a foot brake as it doesn't really want to quit turning.

I would love to have the granite table on my jointer with the existing granite fence as it was within .001 flat the lengh. But again if I could have only one piece of granite on my machines the granite BS wheel would be my first choice... the granite jointer fence a second.. etc.

Just my take as I am not trying to sell anyone granite or anything else. Just presenting what I saw.. what I know about it and what I have experienced using it. Each of us must draw our own conclussion of what we prefer and why.

And what you said about granite in the future was funny. But with the cost of cast iron almost doubling just this year and the price of granite staying stable at least at this point... the granite which was more expensive is not anymore.

Sarge..

[Robert Payne]

Hey Sarge, a great report on the new SC offerings. In your first post you mentioned that 5HP TS that you 'picked up' at the show and you wondered how you'd get it off the back of your truck -- I can think of two methods, one fast and the other more reliable. 1) Get a stout rope and tie it around the saw crate and tie the other end to a nearby tree. The tailgate needs to be down...he, he... and just drive away. Saw comes out of the truck bed el pronto, but it would be hard to blame the shipper for any damage, so try 2) Find 2-3 brain-dead neighbors and buy a 12-pack of their favorite suds. Use some 2x8 by 8-foot planks with ramp end kits (like these (http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(njp4cm55sea4baf4lse2xbui)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=998004647) from Ace Hardware that have pins in them to keep them from coming off the tailgate) and place a concrete block midway to support the load while the neighbors jockey the saw crate down to the ground. I've used a heavy hand cart to add wheels to the adventure, but it depends on the weight... Share the suds after the job is done. Hope you don't have a basement shop...

BTW -- it was good to meet you at the show!

[Dave Lehnert]

Hey Sarge, a great report on the new SC offerings. In your first post you mentioned that 5HP TS that you 'picked up' at the show and you wondered how you'd get it off the back of your truck -- I can think of two methods, one fast and the other more reliable. 1) Get a stout rope and tie it around the saw crate and tie the other end to a nearby tree. The tailgate needs to be down...he, he... and just drive away. Saw comes out of the truck bed el pronto, but it would be hard to blame the shipper for any damage, so try 2) Find 2-3 brain-dead neighbors and buy a 12-pack of their favorite suds. Use some 2x8 by 8-foot planks with ramp end kits (like these (http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/%28njp4cm55sea4baf4lse2xbui%29/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=998004647) from Ace Hardware that have pins in them to keep them from coming off the tailgate) and place a concrete block midway to support the load while the neighbors jockey the saw crate down to the ground. I've used a heavy hand cart to add wheels to the adventure, but it depends on the weight... Share the suds after the job is done. Hope you don't have a basement shop...

BTW -- it was good to meet you at the show!

They did say it was reported to SC but pw felt it was not that big of a deal to replace. I got the feeling they were interested is seeing if it was a problem down the road.

[Rick Fisher]

One way of getting it out of the truck is to call a local rental yard or lumberyard.
For a fee, they can have a small hiab drop by your house and lower it to the driveway.

Its quick, if you tell them to wait until they are in the area, it can be cheap.

[Bob Lang]

Just to set the record straight on the saw we have in the Popular Woodworking shop. The saw arrived with obvious shipping damage to the carton, enough to bend the steel cage the saw is shipped in. The far right corner of the saw (if you're standing in the operator's position) has a small chunk (less than an inch horizontally and less than half an inch up and down) that broke off from impact. Had we not swept the floor before putting the saw completely together we would have been able to find the chip and epoxy it back in place. There was no other discernable damage to the saw, and I have used it extensively the past few months without complaint.

This kind of thing happens when you ship by truck, and our normal procedure is to note it on the freight bill and accept the delivery. If the machine is usable, we use it. We also let the company know, but we don't ask for a replacement machine unless what we have is too damaged to use. Most of the time an ugly box contains a functional machine that may have a scratch on it.

As soon as we noticed the chunk out of the corner, I was on the phone to Steel City. I was told that our saw was one of three to sustain damage in shipping. As John notes, we were far more concerned with putting the saw to use than we were with standing around admiring a pristine top. Steel City offered to send us a new top, but I declined. I did not want to take the time to replace the entire top because the far corner looked a little ugly. Steel City offered to change it for us, or replace the saw. Again I declined. I would rather be woodworking than worrying about a small cosmetic issue. I realize that other people are different and concerned about something like this. To them I would point out that the damaged top was due to shipping, not normal use, and that Steel City was ready and willing to make it right.

I filled in the corner with some JB Weld the afternoon of a reader event. The repair was noticeable at that time because it wasn't completely dry, and hadn't been sanded smooth. Having several guys stick their fingers in it to ask "What's this?" called more attention to it. Now that it is dry and smooth, you would have to really look close to find it.

Bob Lang
Senior Editor, Popular Woodworking

[Randy Klein]

Any 5000 year old or older Egyptians that helped get those large stone up on the pyramids please PM me with advice. :)

Sarge..

Next best thing - link (http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/).

[Richard Magbanua]

Next best thing - link (http://www.theforgottentechnology.com/).

Not to change the subject, but thanks Randy, I just spent the last hour looking and studying that website! That was awesome! I'm thinking about getting that DVD. Much of his thinking can be related to woodworking, you think?

Ok, back to the original topic...

[John Thompson]

I did think about just backing down (30% grade) the driveway and slamming on the brakes with the tail-gate open Rob. :)

Problem is it is assembled and no shipping crate.
Problem is it's under a tarp and the remnants of Tropical Storm Fay are dumping much rain just after I got home late Saturday evening with it.
Problem is it weighs over 500 pounds and my BIL with a large engine hoist lives 65 miles away and I can't drive over with the TS in the rain to pick it up. He is a foreman with Delta AL's and can't come to me.
Problem is I could erect a swing support at the end of my driveway and use a cum-along to lift a few inches.. pull the truck forward and then lower to the mobile base. But I'm not standing in the rain digging foot-post holes in the rain and the concrete I would pour around them won't dry.

Lots of problems and few solutions at the moment as the much needed 4"-5" or so pf rain until late Thursday is helping our water table but not helping me get the big boy off the truck. We really need the rain but what perfect timing on it coming. :)

So... tarp.... about a 1/4" of Boeshield T 9 on cast iron top checked daily between outburst of rain and just wait. I would use an appliance hand-truck if the crate were still on but a hoist would be a better solution with it off.

I really don't mind scratches and even dents as long as the working components don't get damaged. Cosmetics are not an importand part of what I consider to be important in a machine so small mis-japs while getting if off are not really a concern to me.

So... I wait patiently and the good news is I am patient. ;)

My pleasure to meet you last week at the Show, Robert...

Sarge..

[John Thompson]

I want to thank Bob Lang from Popular WW mag for chiming in about the damage to the saw they recieved. I almost missed the post. I meet a few of the guys from Popular WW last week when they dropped by to do a photo shoot. I felt pretty sure that they would do as I mentioned and just fix the cosmetic and get on with it as cosmetics are not as significant to some as others as Bob mentioned.

I will plug Popular WW as the mag seems to be getting better like wine (they tell me anyway as I don't do wine) IMO. They have got some real WW on the staff that I can idenify with and that relates to articles, etc. that can benefit me even though after 37 years I have most of the kinks worked out.... but certainly not all of them.

Regards to the guys at PWW..

Sarge..

[John Thompson]

I just spoke with Jim Box at Steel City...

Kevin...
The expected date of release is mid to late fall on the granite lathe and 17" Variable Drill Press as I had mentioned..

Wilbur P...
12" Swing as we guessed and around Jim and I know over 40" on bed lengh. We both think we remember 42" but the lathe is on it's way back to Murfreesboro as it didn't leave the freight terminal in Atlanta until yesterday. He cannot measure to be sure now until the truck is unloaded.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Kurt Whitley]

The head.. tail.. etc. are metal with the bed being the re-enforce granite and very thick.

John,
I'm not sure about the tailstock, but the headstock was granite with a black metal door. I remember this because I looked at it with Brian (from Teknatool) and we looked at how you would replace the belt. Basically, the bearings are set into granite on the inboard and outboard sides.
I should also mention that the grip of the banjo to the granite bed was exceptional with little locking force. It may be that they custom tuned their "show lathe" or maybe granite is better in this regard...

Cheers,
Kurt

[John Eaton]

Hey Sarge,

Let me know if you need a hand getting that saw down - I'm in town this weekend if it takes you that long and I'm "working" from home on Wed and Fri. You should have my number. Saturday morning would be ideal for me and you might be able to line up a couple more hands.

You know we can always remove the table and/or motor to make things lighter...

-- John

[Eric Larsen]

With all the granite Steel City is going to use, they should license Fred Flintstone as a mascot.


http://inovis.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/flintstones.gif

"Steel City Tools, they'll yabba-dabba-doo the job."

[John Thompson]

And I stand corrected Kurt. You are absolutely correct as I remember helping lift it from the box and head was granite attached. And on several occassions I opened the door that hides the belts also. So a case of information overload as I saw so many things but did not pay special attention after we assembled it.

Nothing is show tuned by Steel City. Things come to the show stock in their packing crate. They take them out.. assemble and then tune as you normally would. Assure cast iron estentions are meshed to to TS tops with and engineers straight edge... fences square.. band saw guides set properly.. etc. etc.. The same thing you and I do when we un-crate a new machine to use in our shop.

The banjo was tight as I remember sliding it in the granite reciever. I don't remember if the reciever was all granite or had a SS insert but I believe all granite? It ran smooth as silk when I saw it run as I put my hand on the head. Lathes are definitely not my forte so I did not use it personally.

Enjoyed meeting you, sir... My pleasure....

Sarge..

[jim oakes]

I got this off the Steel City site:

Steel City Tool Work's standard five-year warranty and special 10 year warranty on granite components.
For Steel City's full line of woodworking machinery and accessories, visit our web site, www.steelcitytoolworks.com (http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com) or call 877-728-6651 for a dealer near you




10 years is a long time to stand behind a product, I bet they tested that granite thoroughly.

I wonder why they went to the trouble to bore all the holes in the bandsaw wheel. It would be heavier and less labor to use a plain disk with one center hole.

[John Thompson]

Hey Sarge,

Let me know if you need a hand getting that saw down - I'm in town this weekend if it takes you that long and I'm "working" from home on Wed and Fri. You should have my number. Saturday morning would be ideal for me and you might be able to line up a couple more hands.

You know we can always remove the table and/or motor to make things lighter...

-- John

With any luck I'm taking it off the pick-up tomorrow, John. But I appreciate the offer and if I don't I will call you as I have your cell #. I'm taking it off if the weather permits anyway as you know all so well about 13 miles away. :)

Hope to see ya a Gwinnett WW one of these Sat. mornings soon. You will have probably accumulated another 4000-5000 square foot warehouse full of bargain tools you seem to stumble across by then. :D

Regards from just up the road...

Sarge..

[John Thompson]

I got this off the Steel City site:

Steel City Tool Work's standard five-year warranty and special 10 year warranty on granite components.
For Steel City's full line of woodworking machinery and accessories, visit our web site, www.steelcitytoolworks.com (http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com) or call 877-728-6651 for a dealer near you




10 years is a long time to stand behind a product, I bet they tested that granite thoroughly.

I wonder why they went to the trouble to bore all the holes in the bandsaw wheel. It would be heavier and less labor to use a plain disk with one center hole.

I was not even aware of the 10 Year, Jim. We were so busy it was just not mentioned and was originally 5. There are definitely holes and I am not sure why other than it weighs a ton now. I will ask if I happen to catch Scott on the phone as he is here and there and everywhere.

Sarge..

[Wilbur Pan]

10 years is a long time to stand behind a product, I bet they tested that granite thoroughly.

I wonder why they went to the trouble to bore all the holes in the bandsaw wheel. It would be heavier and less labor to use a plain disk with one center hole.

10 years guarantee on the granite?!?!!? I'm not so worried about the impact issue on the granite lathe anymore.

My bet is that the holes were drilled more to aid in balancing the wheel, and because there might be a thing as a bandsaw wheel that's too heavy.

[Randy Klein]

I wonder why they went to the trouble to bore all the holes in the bandsaw wheel. It would be heavier and less labor to use a plain disk with one center hole.

The holes distribute the mass out towards the rim which is desireable for a flywheel.

[John Eaton]

If I only had a place to put all this stuff - as it is I'm going to start listing some stuff on CL shortly.

-- John

[John Thompson]

All that stuff you mention may (and and emphasis on MAY) fit in the Gwinnett Civic Center Arena. I'm sure they would be happy to rent it to you. :D

BTW.... no need for any help as I got tired of waiting on my son and went out and got a pair of those tailgate thingy's that Bob Payne metioned to make tail-gate ramps.. Two 2 x 8 SYP.. slid the 500 lb. monster to the rear and walked it down about 2-3" at a time on each side to the ground right onto the mobile base by myself. :cool:

The Steel City 5 HP has landed and none to soon as more rain is expected. :)

Thanks for the offer John. Total cost to get it down $21.95 as I keep SYP on hand for work-bench tops.

And thanks to Robert (Bob) P. for the tip on the tail-gate thingy's....

Sarge..