Tormek Setup

[Bernie Weishapl]

Well finally made it home Friday night after being on the road with my job. Next month is even going to be worse since it is the end of the fiscal year and performance check up time. Anyway got the little bench done and the two drawers done to hold my new Tormek T-7. One drawer holds the turning jigs and the other the hand tool jigs. I got the Tormek setup today and got to use it a little well maybe a lot. The LOML seemed to think since it cost $799 that the first things sharpened should be here kitchen knives and her (14 pair) of scissors. Yep I did them all and wow does it work well. Her knives will shave my arm after sharpening and honing. Her test to see if I got her scissors sharp enough was to cut some denium so they did with no problem. I also sharpened two of my cheapest bowl gouges that I got when I first started turning then took them to some pine just to try them. It is amazing the difference. Anyway happy to have it done and ready to go to work.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Wow Bernie - that's quite the setup! Hope the sharper tools make it easier to turn - at least that is what I plan on telling my wife!!! Hope you get some time to turn before you hit the road again. If you ever get up this way - would love to have you stop in if even for a little while!

[David Walser]

Bernie,

You've shamed me into fixing up my own Tormek station. Right now it sits on my bench when I'm turning, but it would be a lot more convenient if it had a permanent home.

Now, where did I put those plans for Norm's sharpening station?...

[Toney Robertson]

Bernie,

So now the 64,000 dollar question - does the tool stay sharp longer?

The argument seem to always be that the Tormek razor sharp edge will be gone in seconds.

What do you think?

Also how fast can you refresh th edge on the Tormek?

Nice looking setup.

Toney

[Wilbur Pan]

I can't speak for Bernie, but it takes me a quick 2 minutes or so to refresh the edge for my bowl gouge, including setting and mounting the jig and tool rest.

As far as the edge goes, I can turn a bowl from a 8" diameter cherry blank without resharpening, although I'll redo the edge for final finishing passes.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks for the kind words. Steve I would love nothing more than to stop and spend some time with you. I think we would have a blast making curlies.

Wilbur is right. I couldn't stand it so went out tonight and sharpened & honed my cheapest PSI 1/2" bowl gouge. I had a walnut bowl that was dry so trued up the tenon and went to work. I did the outside including Bill Grumbines vertical shear scrape. It made the prettiest angel hair curlies and what a smooth surface. I have never gotten angel hair like these. I took this bowl start to finish with this gouges. I must say I was impressed. I started sanding at 150 grit. So for one try it has exceeded my expectations and I am happy with the purchase. Oh by the way the LOML is really happy cause her kitchen knives now cut as they should and her scissors work. She said now she can stop buying scissors when the others are to dull to work. So with 14 pair she said I can now rotate sharpening them.:eek::cool::rolleyes:;)

So Toney to answer your question, yes I really do believe they stay sharp longer and it took me a minute and 1/2 to take it back and put a edge on it. Off the grinder I would have went back to the grinder at least once if not twice while turning this bowl.

[David Drickhamer]

Your going to love your new sharpener. I have to Jet and wouldn't be without it. It may take a little while for the initial sharpening but after the first time it only take a few minutes to touch them up on the hone.
Congrats on the new purchase.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thanks Dick. I do my shaping with the wolverine jig and grinder then take it to the tormek. Works pretty well that way. Yes so far I love the Tormek.

[Jeff Farris]

Bernie,

So now the 64,000 dollar question - does the tool stay sharp longer?

The argument seem to always be that the Tormek razor sharp edge will be gone in seconds.

What do you think?

Also how fast can you refresh th edge on the Tormek?

Nice looking setup.

Toney

Toney,

Here's a little anecdote regarding edge life. To improve my turning and see a little about how other turners work, I took a 4 day class at Craft Supplies USA in Provo. As luck would have it, three of the other students were Tormek owners, who were delighted that I was taking the class. Over the course of the next 4 days I noticed that once I had the Tormek group dialed in on how to use the system, we were going to the sharpening station once for every 3 trips the dry grinder students were making -- and getting better finished cuts, too.

The "the edge won't last" argument is conjecture by those that haven't tried it. Think about it...any abraded edge consists of peaks and valleys. Tall peaks and deep valleys give the turning stock an easy target to grab and break off. Tiny peaks and shallow valleys make for a stronger edge, as well as keener.

The validity of the argument against fine grinds on turning tools rests on how long it takes to create the grind. Granted, if it took ten minutes to hone an edge, it wouldn't be worth the effort -- the very best edge on a turning tool in most circumstances isn't going to last more the 20 or 30 minutes. Who wants to spend half to a third of their time sharpening? But, once you're dialed in on the Tormek, you can create an extremely fine edge in just a couple minutes.

[David Walser]

Allow me to add my perspective to Jeff's.

"The argument seem to always be that the Tormek razor sharp edge will be gone in seconds." To a certain extent that's true. Tormek's razor sharp edge will not survive it's first contact with the wood. No edge does. Your edge, no matter how it's been sharpened, will immediately begin to dull as soon as you start to cut with it.

My take is that the Tormek's edge not only start's out sharper than the edge from a dry grinder; it lasts longer, too. With 5 minutes of use, the Tormek's edge will most likely still be sharper than an edge fresh from a grinder.

More importantly, IMHO, a Tormek would be superior to a dry grinder even if both systems produced an equally sharp edge. Ever go to the grinder just to touch up the edge for your finish cut only to have the tool cut differently because the "touch up" changed the geometry of the tool just enough that you needed a slightly different angle of attack in order to get a good cut? That used to happen to me constantly with my dry grinder. It would take a cut or two before I was used to the tool's slightly different shape. What was supposed to be "one last cut" ended up being three, four, or more cuts. Worse, sometimes the altered shape resulted in a catch (it couldn't by MY fault) and a new design opportunity. For fear of these problems, I frequently avoided sharpening my tool and used my "sharp enough" gouge (a/k/a "dull") for that finish cut.

That kind of thing happens far less with a Tormek and it's jigs. Why? Because there is less play and room for error with the Tormek jigs than with the Wolverine jigs or the Woodcut Tru-Grind. Take sharpening a bowl gouge, for example. With the Wolverine jig (or the Tru-Grind), there are two points of contact -- the arm of the jig in a little cup (the "control point") and the tip of the tool on the wheel of the grinder. The two points of contact are 8" or so apart. Any slight changes in the position of the jig in it's cup is magnified by the distance between the control point and the tip of the tool. Slight changes in how the jig is held in it's cup result in changes in tool geometry. By contrast, the Tormek jig also has two points of contact, but the "arm" of the jig is only 3" or so from the wheel. The shorter distance between the two points lessens the impact of any changes in the relationship between the control point and the tip of the tool.

In addition, the relationship between jig and grinder is far more secure with a Tormek than with the other systems. With the Wolverine, the arm of the jig pivots in a cup and the user can easily move the tip of the arm out of or within the cup. Any movement slightly changes the grinding angle at the tip of the tool. (As discussed above, the greater the distance from this "control point" to the tip of the tool the greater the change in grinding angle.) The Tormek's jig's control point does not rest in a cup. Instead, the jig is attached to Tormek's tool support arm. The jig slides freely from side to side, but there is very little "play" in the relationship between jig and distance from the wheel. The end result is far more consistency in geometry of the tool.

[Gordon Seto]

Pardon me for hijacking this. I had the Tormek and went back to dry grinder because it took me too long to shape a 2060 steel skew on Tormek. I emailed Jeff, he gave me some tips on how to do it effectively couple months ago. Bernie's post persuaded me to give it another trial last night.
I didn't time it; it was not that bad. The shaping was slower than dry grinder; but dramatically shorter than the previous time.
Thanks, Jeff.
Thanks for sharing.

[Jeff Farris]

No problem, Gordon --- but you forgot to SHARE the tip! ;)

When shaping skews -- that is, changing either the skew angle or the bevel angle by a significant amount and/or removing damage, move the Universal Support to the vertical mount and work with the wheel turning into the cutting edge. The cutting pressure of the grindstone is significantly greater in the vertical mount. Also, use the coarse side of the stone grader every few minutes to keep the grindstone cutting efficiently.

This might also be a good time to mention one of our new product introductions for this fall. We're introducing an optional grindstone specifically formulated for high speed steel. The product code is SB-250 and it goes by the name Blackstone. No, it's not magical, it's almost jet black. It has significantly better wear characteristics than the standard SG-250 and makes tool shaping much less arduous. It's also great if you use your Tormek for planer blades. Oddly, though, it doesn't cut carbon steel as well as the SG-250, so I would keep my SG-250 around for chisels, plane irons, knives, scissors, etc. Any dealer that doesn't have them in stock can have one in a matter of days -- I have a warehouse full of them.

[Gordon Seto]

--- but you forgot to SHARE the tip! ;)


Jeff, I learned my lesson. It would be better for those who really know what they are talking give the advice - save you the trouble to correct what I misspeak.

These tips are helpful for new Tormek owners who are converting their dry grinder grinds to the wet system. There are some shaping to do from a 6" or 8" hollow grind to the 10".

[Rasmus Petersen]

Love the setup !! And i have to say that i have also stripped the pockets and gotte myself a T7 with almost all the trimmings... nad althoug i have been spendig a lot of time regrinding my skews (and it takes some time) i LOVE IT they are scary sharp!!

also anybody have the SB-250 wheel that Jeff talks about? and what do you think ?

And (im on a roll with the ? asking) lets se more solutions on grinding stations...

[Jack Mincey]

I've been using a tormek for around 8 years now and love it. I even sharpen 25" planner blades on it and they are so sharp. I find it much easier to use than a grinder with jigs. The only time I use my grinder for lathe tools is to touch up scraper's. I keep the factory rest on my old craftsman grinder set for the angle I like for scrapers.
Jack

[Chris Stolicky]

Yeah, I still have it sitting on my bench when I use it. It would be nice to have a dedicated location for it. Ah... another project.

I got my Tormek back in early September and absolutely it. I was actually able to sharpen my bowl gouge properly for the first time and it was a truly different experience. It took a while to reshape the damage on my 1" skew from the dry grinder, but the bowl gouge was reshaped (properly) in a matter of minutes.

I think I am just dry grinder challenged. I don't mind it for scrapers, but that's about it right now.

[Rasmus Petersen]

i also still use my dry grinder for scrapers. but i have feeling that´s going to change at some point...

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Hikacking thread.....

No one has a SB-250 blackstone wheel yet? I'm thinking of getting one, since I mostly sharpen gouges and skews....... I'd like to know if it's "worth it". But seeing as though Tormek stuff is always "worth it", I don't know why I'm waiting.... LOL

[Rasmus Petersen]

i do !! and OH MY GOD !!! once you go black you never go back...

i broke the tip on my very steep oval skew, i use it for small details. and had to regrind it on the old wheel to almost an entire day.. same job on the black stone... 20 mins... its more than worth it !

[Larry Edgerton]

I spent 6 hrs yesterday sharpening Japanese bench chisels with water stones, and today I have 4 plane irons to do. As I am finally going to start to play with my lathe, I am going to break down and buy a Tormek.

I was always going to machine/weld one up with a couple of different wheels, but I can see that is not going to happen. My to do list has started to overspan my life expectancy. :)

[Mike Spanbauer]

I can say that for flatwork it improved my sharpening stuff a ton. I've about 12 planes in the stable that are all users and have had a T-6 setup for years. Love it. Now I've got to pick up the jigs for the turning, but i'm looking forward to another positive experience.

No, the Tormek isn't cheap... yes, there are clones... however, I've used a couple of them and the T is the only machine that won't stop when you bear down on it (better motor and bearings) and the larger stone is of significant value as well.

Thanks for the tips on the jig locations also, a new learning curve for me here :)

mike