Computer Wiz Kids...

[Julie Wright]

Ok, time to update to update the ole system, I have pentium 4 1.7Ghz with 256mg sdram. video graphics card 16mb ATI Rage Ultra 4X AGP 40GB ATA-100, 7200RPM hard drive, Windows ME (arg...), V.90 56K PCI data/fax, copier modem, and 16x/10x/40x CD-RW drive.

1. I am planning on putting Windows XP (FULL Version) onto this system. What is the best way to go about this? :confused:

2. I am also planning on putting Studio MX onto this system. I know that I need to add more memory. :)

I want to get a new graphics card, my system hangs up after about 30 or so mins of looking at and leaving up 5+ webpages. I was looking at the RADEON 9200 128MB AGP 8X VIDADPT as a replacement. Lots of extra memory. :D

http://www.pagecomputers.com anyone purchased anything from this company? :confused:


Let me know what you all think. I have already contacted Dell and they gave me some links to read and said Good Luck.... :( Well, the links only pertained to spare parts that they sell, imagine that... :mad:

Thanks

Julie

[John Miliunas]

Julie, you're on the right track! ME....ME su.....Well, let's just say if that was Microsoft's first operating system, Mr. Gates would be in bankruptcy court right about now. :rolleyes:

First, do NOT take the "upgrade" path with the XP install. Backup any/all your important data and do a clean install of XP. This point is NOT open to discussion! Clean install or ditch the whole project!

RAM is still pretty cheap today. Considering you wish to do some heavier duty multimedia, 512MB would be good. You'll need to check to be sure what you have in there for open slots. You don't mention which Dell you have. If it has RDRAM (Rambus), that needs to be installed in pairs!

Nice upgrade vid card! You're right about the additional memory on it. Too many people figure a fast processor and lots of system memory is all they need, when in reality, for graphics-intense applications, the vid card plays an all-important role. For starters, modern-day vid cards typically have a processor on board, which is *faster* than the main processor on the PC itself!

Good luck with the upgrades, Julie. Feel free to drop me a line if you need assistance and I'll be happy to see if I can point you in the right direction! :cool:

[Jason Roehl]

Julie, just a small point FYI here. You can still do a clean install of the upgrade version of XP. Not too long ago, I bought a new hard drive myself, and decided to make it the master drive with a clean install of XP. XP wouldn't read my ME install disc (disc was in rough shape), so I ended up verifying that I had a previous version of Windows with a Windows95 install disc (original version--yes, I was one of the first victims). The only differences between the upgrade version of XP and the full version are the version verification I described above, and $100, which is not about the amount of software contained in the box, but about licensing, and rewarding Windows addicts. ;) Hope this helps, and happy upgrading!

[John Miliunas]

Jason, Julie. I hope you're not misunderstanding me. Taking the "upgrade path" is installing *on top* of a previous O/S install (such as 98 or ME). Jason, you're right in the fact that the "upgrade" version of XP will install either way. My point was only to be sure it ends up being a *clean* install and yes, all you need is a copy of a previous Windows version to let the installation routine to verify against. :cool:

[Jim Becker]

Yea, what they said--do a clean install including a reformat of the drive. 512M is the minimum RAM to go with, especially running MX and other graphics applications. I went with a Gig on this new computer. 128M on the video card is also a minimum I'd recommend. I really do notice a difference running Dreamweaver on this machine!

[Dan Mages]

I just finished building a new PC at home. It is an AMD Athlon 64 3000+ processor with 512 megs of ram. If you want some serious memory for your computer, I reccomend Corsair memory. They score at the top of the pack in every comparison they are put in. It can be a little pricey, but you are paying for performance. They can be found at www.corsairmemory.com. For the video card, I would also reccomend that you look at ATI's All-In-Wonder series of cards. For a few extra dollars, these cards will give you TV on your computer, TiVO like service for recording shows, DVD functionality, video editing, etc...

Good luck!!

Dan

[Michael Perata]

Julie

The P4 1.7 Mh can be upgraded to a 2.4 Mh chip (less than $90). There are three 2.4 chips, you want the one marked "A"

If you are going to use Studio MX (I have Studio and IMO Adobe is MUCH better BTW). Then populate your board with as much memory as it will hold. 2Gb of ram will be less than $200.

I have both a ATI Radeon 7500 64MB adapter - very good, and a NVidia GeForce MX200 32Mb - good, in my system (dual monitor). The 9200 has had some poor reviews. Since I have had good luck with the ATI I would recommend the brand again, but I think I would opt for the 9800 with 128Mb RAM ($250).

XP will slow you down with all of its bells and whistles. Get a copy of Windows 2000 Pro ($250). It is XP on steriods and without the cosmetics. It is easier to install and work with than XP. XP has the same kernel as 2000.

[John Weber]

Julie,

If you are going with a full new version of XP, I recommend purchasing a new hard drive and start fresh like John said. Hard drives are cheap and you can then transfer your old files and programs when you find the time. You also now have a backup hard drive and keep all your old files. I would check the prices and go 128 MB video card if the price was right. I'm running a XP Pro PIII 500 Mhz, 384 MB, and a 32 MB video card, and haven't had any problems watching multi media, although I don't any editing to speak of. I bet switching to XP will help a lot with your system hang ups. The best money I spent on PC stuff was a high end 19" Sony CRT monitor and broadband internet connection.

John

[Roger Myers]

I just did an XP upgrade over windows 98 this past weekend (I should have asked here first :( ) and everthing (finally) seems to be ok.... What did I lose or compromise by not doing the clean install? Should I still consider going that route? Does that mean reinstalling all of the program files, etc?
Things seem to be ok...I had to reinstall outlook, and reinstall my firewall, but otherwise everthing appears ok..
Roger

[Ken Garlock]

Julie, you are probably getting more help than you planned on, so I will add my recommendation also.

When it comes to memory, go with Crucial memory at Cruical Memory (http://www.crucial.com/) They are the retail outlet for Micron Memory up in Idaho. It is guaranteed and their website will walk you through the process of selecting just exactly what you machine requires, and you get next day delivery. I run 1 GB on my machine, and never touch the page dataset. Memory is cheap( $140 for 512MB,) so get as much as your machine can handle.

[John Miliunas]

I just did an XP upgrade over windows 98 this past weekend (I should have asked here first :( ) and everthing (finally) seems to be ok.... What did I lose or compromise by not doing the clean install? Should I still consider going that route? Does that mean reinstalling all of the program files, etc?
Things seem to be ok...I had to reinstall outlook, and reinstall my firewall, but otherwise everthing appears ok..
Roger

Roger, what you did WILL work BUT, we have found that those systems with a "clean" install of XP are more stable in the long-run. According to our Technologists, it's their belief that the two different "Registries" of each operating system start to "fight" each other. They did a side-by-side with identical boxes and, except for one being a 98 upgrade, ran identical software, etc. Invariably, the fresh install XP box performed better, faster and stayed more stable.

If you should decide to re-do your machine, yes, it would require re-installing all the apps. You would, of course, have backed up ALL your important data first!

BUT, having said all that, I would just concentrate on keeping all my data backed up as current as possible and just keep running the way you're running. Regardless of the probably advantages of doing clean installs, your box is running properly now. As much as I'd recommend doing a clean install, I'm equally, if not more so, a big proponent of: "Hey, if it works, don't fix it!" :) In other words, just keep doing backups and if something "blows up", then go ahead and setup for a clean install. :cool:

[Roger Myers]

BUT, having said all that, I would just concentrate on keeping all my data backed up as current as possible and just keep running the way you're running. Regardless of the probably advantages of doing clean installs, your box is running properly now. As much as I'd recommend doing a clean install, I'm equally, if not more so, a big proponent of: "Hey, if it works, don't fix it!" :) In other words, just keep doing backups and if something "blows up", then go ahead and setup for a clean install. :cool:

John,
Appreciate the advice...so far everything is good. Next project is a larger hard drive which I will back-up everything onto.... I know I've become too lazy in that area....

[Jim Becker]

Next project is a larger hard drive which I will back-up everything onto....
This is fine for incremental backup and easy to access storage, but you should be backing up important data files and documents to some form of removable media that is not part of your system. An attached storage device is still succeptable to things like virues, system crashes and other things that could destroy both your primary data and "backup data". I use a 750mb ZIP drive and/or CDR for this purpose and put a copy away "outside the house" monthly. "Stuff happens".

[Chuck Wintle]

From what I have read StudioMX places a big demand on memory and processing power. I just installed an ATI 9600 XT and like it a lot. You could upgrade the MoBo, add a new P4 processor and memory for not too much money. Add Win xp to that, in a clean install, and you could have a pretty fast computer.

[Julie Wright]

Time to do some more homework. New CPU or upgrade????

extra hard drive
memory
video card
new procesor
new mother board
etc etc etc.....

The current memory in my machine is 256 MB SDRAM, PC133, Non-Parity, Unbuffered and this machine only takes 512MB - OOPS big mistake when I bought this one :(

One more thing have any of you purchased anything from this site? http://www.abspc.com/app/search.asp?sp-q=memory&submit.x=0&submit.y=0


Anyway thanks again and I'll let you know whats happening, Better go turn more pens so I can get all the new stuff for my Computer :D :) :D :)

[Julie Wright]

I came Up with. :)

GeForce FX5500 AGP 8X 256MB DDR Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI

Corsair 256MB PC133 Value Select Memory

Maxtor Fireball 3 2F040L0 40GB Ultra ATA/133 5400RPM Hard Drive w/Fluid Dynamic Bearing Motors


https://www.zipzoomfly.com/
Total Price $234.00 free shipping :D


Thanks again for everyone's help.. :D

[Jim Becker]

Good choice on the video card...it's ready to work with the digital flatscreen that you'll end up with one of these days. DVI is incredible when combined with an LCD. Rock solid, bright, detailed. I would have never believed it until I got one on my desk.

[John Miliunas]

I came Up with. :)

GeForce FX5500 AGP 8X 256MB DDR Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI

Corsair 256MB PC133 Value Select Memory

Maxtor Fireball 3 2F040L0 40GB Ultra ATA/133 5400RPM Hard Drive w/Fluid Dynamic Bearing Motors


https://www.zipzoomfly.com/
Total Price $234.00 free shipping :D


Thanks again for everyone's help.. :D

Julie, I think you've come up with very reasonable upgrades. Too much more and you might as well just buy a whole new box. You mentioned something about Dell earlier, so I'm assuming this is a Dell unit, so a main systemboard upgrade is pretty much out of the picture, anyway. Now, once you get it all together and, depending on your environment, remember that one of the biggest enemies of any PC is heat. That new vid card will generate more heat, even if it has its own fan. The key here is to put the whole unit in as cool a spot as you can and be vigilant on blowing the inside of it out on a regular basis with some form of compressed air. This will also help from dust particles getting into the fan bearings, which even before complete failure, will slow them down enough to become ineffective and you'll fry a processor! :( Have fun with it! You've made some good choices! :cool:

[Byron Trantham]

I use a 750mb ZIP drive and/or CDR for this purpose and put a copy away "outside the house" monthly. "Stuff happens".

Jim,
What software do you use to accomplish backups with CDRs? Does the software allow spanning of disks? :confused:

[Jim Becker]

What software do you use to accomplish backups with CDRs? Does the software allow spanning of disks?
I've never tried to span disks...I only back up data files, not the whole system. If they will not fit on one disk, I'll use more than one and just split the files up. On my previous sytem, I was using Nero. I don't recall what's on this new one as I haven't used it yet; just the ZIP. That's not saying software will not do it...I just haven't looked for the feature!

[Julie Wright]

Found a better Hard Drive - Is this a good price?
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100703-315006-1

Sooooo If I buy this drive and load win XP and Studio MX what should I do with the other drive make it the Slave? Format it?? It is a 40GB..

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=323256 Here is the video card I am considering. Price ???

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

As long as your machine supports ATA 133 it should work great. You might consider loading the OS on the original drive and making the new drive your data drive. In any case, you'll want to reformat the old drive at the appropriate time to insure it's clean.

[Julie Wright]

You got me on that one, it looks like my current machine will only support ATA-66 or ATA-100. Glad I keep asking you folks these silly questions.
What is a solid hard drive? I always used Maxtor, of course today some one else is probably better.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=101205

Thanks

[Chuck Wintle]

The ata133 drive will work on your machine but check if the motherboard will recognize a drive that large. Due to the BIOS limitations on some older boards it might not see more than a certain number of gigabytes. Maxtor are good drives and the warranty on some models is 3 years. I RMA'd a drive to Maxtor and within 2 weeks I had my new drive back. Hitachi make very fast drives, probably the fastest consumer drives available. Seagate were bad for a while but have improved lately.

[Julie Wright]

How do I check what drive size the mother board will recognize?

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100578-1

[Chuck Wintle]

It should make some mention of drive size support in the motherboard manual. What kind of mobo is it? Generally the newer boards, 3 years or newer have large drive support.

[John Miliunas]

How do I check what drive size the mother board will recognize?

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100578-1

Julie, you shouldn't have a problem w/a 120gb drive, however, I would still go out to the Dell support site and plug in your 5 or 7 character "Service Tag" number and check the technical specs on your particular machine. Before doing an upgrade to XP, I would also check for a "BIOS Update" at the Dell site, too. If it's a newer version than what you have, it probably will have better support for XP, plus, if your orginal BIOS configuration didn't have larger drive support, that is often corrected in later BIOS updates. (You can see your BIOS version when you first boot your machine and it's going through the POST sequence. On a Dell, it will typically be something like: A02, A03, A04 or similar to one of those.) :cool:

[Julie Wright]

The BIOS is A02 I just went to Dell and looked for an update. I didnt see one. My computer was bought in Oct 2001. mother board type - good question, I'll get back with the answer .. THanks

[John Miliunas]

The BIOS is A02 I just went to Dell and looked for an update. I didnt see one. My computer was bought in Oct 2001. mother board type - good question, I'll get back with the answer .. THanks

A02? I'll bet there's an updated version. Check the "Downloads" section. Also, you won't know what motherboard it is, per se. It's most likely made for Dell, according to their specs. :cool:

[Julie Wright]

I did find update to A06, Now my question is can I just download 06 or do I have to download each update?

[John Miliunas]

I did find update to A06, Now my question is can I just download 06 or do I have to download each update?

Just the latest one, Julie. As the versions increment upwards, they are cumulative, so they're not dependant on the next previous version. Be sure to read the instructions on "how to", especially if you've never "flashed" a BIOS before. It's really pretty straightforward and takes but a couple minutes, including the reboot. :cool:

[Julie Wright]

http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/systems/dim4300/specs.htm#1101572

Here is the info for my computer. Thanks for all the help folks..

Julie :D :) :D :)

[Julie Wright]

Where did All the messages from yesterday 5-5-04 go ??? :confused:
Guess I needed more coffee this AM !! :D

[Chuck Wintle]

I don't know what the flash instructions say but usually its better to flash the BIOS in DOS. Dell may do it differently. Did Dell indicate what the BIOS upgrade was for? Sometimes its not necessary to flash the BIOS if everything is working well.For more info on harddrives you will find a lot at www.storagereview.com. The other thing was the memery type for your computer. In asking around I found that dell computers are "fussy" as to which type/brand of memory will work. Usually crucial or micron is good and you can check on the crucial website for a list of what memory will work in what computer.

[John Miliunas]

I don't know what the flash instructions say but usually its better to flash the BIOS in DOS. Dell may do it differently. Did Dell indicate what the BIOS upgrade was for? Sometimes its not necessary to flash the BIOS if everything is working well.For more info on harddrives you will find a lot at www.storagereview.com. The other thing was the memery type for your computer. In asking around I found that dell computers are "fussy" as to which type/brand of memory will work. Usually crucial or micron is good and you can check on the crucial website for a list of what memory will work in what computer.

Julie, I see the messages from yesterday (5/5/04)?

Charles, I know of NO flash for the main logic board BIOS which operates *outside* of DOS. I have seen where you are able to flash the EPROM on CD drives, Network cards, etc., but never for the MoBo BIOS. The Dell flash file includes a *.bin, which allows the user to easily create a bootable floppy, which you then boot from, so you never even hit the O/S to begin with. It even goes and checks to be sure it's the correct "old" BIOS for the upgrade being applied. Also (and this is NOT limited to Dell), you can't always tell all that was included in a BIOS upgrade. I've seen descriptions of what's been updated, but often, it's just highlights of all that's been done. Also, if you want to know more about the updates since your particular BIOS version, you need to go through ALL the documentation on previous updates, as well. Typically, the description for the latest update will only include what was changed on that particular revision. (I know...Bla, bla-bla, bla...But, just thought somebody might appreciate a bit more background info on these toys of destruction we have sitting in front of us! Sorry to ramble... :( )

As for the memory, Crucial IS Micron and Crucial happens to be what Dell uses in the first place, though the markings on the RAM sticks may not show it as such. You're right about Dell boxes being "fussy", but that was much more so with older generation Dell's. The old "Dimension ESP" boxes, in particular, come to mind, as well as a few Optiplex models and even some of the servers. With later generation boxes (3/4 yrs. or newer), we haven't really seen such issues. :)

BTW, for those wondering, NO, I do NOT work for Dell! It's just that Dell is the main computer OEM here at the UW campus and, being in the IT dept., we're authorized to do Dell warranty repairs. Needless to say, the bulk of everything we work on is Dell. :cool:

[Chuck Wintle]

John,
My new ASUS mobo has a utility that lets me flash while in windows. My old mobo (ABIT) did not have this capability. And Dell I have heard do not use a standard pinout on the power supply therfore you cannot swap in a new mobo of a different brand.

[Dan Mages]

John, my new MSI mobo has the ability of flashing the BIOS through windows. Julie, you should check to see if the video card you are purchasing will work in AGP2x and AGP4x modes. Your computer is a bit old to have AGP8x functionality.

Dan

[John Miliunas]

Charles, Dan...Wow! That's pretty incredible. Personally, I wish ALL the BIOS EPROMS had that ability, as it would make my life much simpler! :rolleyes: I had already thought it was pretty cool that you could do that for other EPROMS, much less the main BIOS! Thanks for the info! :cool:

[Byron Trantham]

I wasn't going to step into this because it is a complex issue - too many variables. However, for what it is worth, I recently installed a 200 gig drive in my Sony VAIO that's about 4 years old. I'm running XP Professional. The drive is a Maxtor. The OS won't run with that large a drive so Maxtor provided a utility that tweaks the registry and allows XP to handle the drive. The install was painless after I figured out I had to use the utility - you know, read the instructions! it went in fine. :D

[Dan Mages]

Now for the ultimate computer mod. What about a wood case for it? I am thinking a nice red case made of bloodwood or maybe a case from wenge? Oh! and dont forget the hinged door on the side with a glass window. :D

Dan

[Julie Wright]

What does flashing BIOS mean?? I thought I was downloading it...

Here is the Tech Specs of my system

http://docs.us.dell.com/docs/system...ecs.htm#1101572

OOPS that doesnt work ! :confused:

[Chuck Wintle]

To flash the BIOS means to replace the firmware that exists in the BIOS chip of the motherboard. Replacing the firmware to the most recent will mean that detected firmware bugs will be eliminated. You will need the flash program and the new BIOS fiirmware to accomplish the flash. I use a Win98 boot disk to boot into DOS environment. Then using the flash program, read the documentation of the program involved on how to do it, the BIOS is updated.

[Julie Wright]

Ok so I have this Dell 4300 Dimension system. Pent 4, 1.7Ghz
soon to have 512MB memory..
Looking at video cards..

Video controller = AGP 4X so will my computer support only a 4x card? or can I get a 4x/8x card ? I'd love to add 256MB card.

What are reliable video cards? There are quite a lot out there ? :confused:

Thanks
Julie

[Chuck Wintle]

An AGP 8x video card is backward compatible with AGP4x. You will not have the performance of an 8x AGP but it will still be acceptable. I am using an ATI video card and it works well.

[Julie Wright]

I Want To Thank All You Very Nice Folks Who Have Been Working With Me During This Upgrade. :) :)

Thanks Again :) :)

[Julie Wright]

Western Digital Caviar Special Edition WD800JB 80GB ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive w/8MB Buffer (Comes with 10 10-packs of 80-min 700MB Zipzoomfly 48X CD-R discs!)

I believe this is a replacement drive for Dell. Anyone know how this one holds up. For $88 I thought it is a good price.

Thanks again :D

[Chuck Wintle]

Western Digital have improved in the last couple of years. If the warranty is good then its a good deal with the discs and all.

[Dan Mages]

Western Digital makes great hard drives. I have a 7 gig drive on a computer at still works great after 6 years.

Dan

[Julie Wright]

A strange thing happens when you look up video cards,
they all have the same root name, just different manufacturers.
PNY ATI MSI CHAINTECH Gainward

Who are 3 stable manufactures. I'm sure I did not list the best. I want to know who you all prefer. I know the PC whiz kids know who has the best video cards

Thanks

[Waymon Campbell]

I did find update to A06, Now my question is can I just download 06 or do I have to download each update?

Just download the latest update. You then execute it and it makes a boot floppy with the BIOS update on it. You then boot to the floppy and it automatically applies the update. And don't worry, the update checks your system type, so you can't apply the wrong update.

[Jim Becker]

A strange thing happens when you look up video cards,
they all have the same root name, just different manufacturers.
PNY ATI MSI CHAINTECH Gainward
The common names are the result of using the same "chip set" of which there are a limited number of designs. Chip sets provide the features and characteristics of the adapter. Manufacturers buy the chip sets to implement their version of the video adapter. Usually, they use the drivers supplied by the chip set manufacturer these days so that the OS can just run with them, but there may be "tweeked" versions supplied with the card. I'm not sure there is a "best" manufacturer for the cards, although ATI has been around for a LONG time as have a few others.

[Julie Wright]

Here's what I ended up ordering... Oh what fun next week will be!! :D :)

CHAINTECH nVIDIA GeForce FX5200 Video Card, 128MB DDR, 64-bit,TV-Out, 8X AGP Model "LA-FX20-H" www.newegg.com


Western Digital Caviar Special Edition WD800JB 80GB ATA/100 7200RPM
Hard Drive w/8MB Buffer www.zipzoomfly.com


256MB 168-Pin DIMM 32Mx64 SDRAM Upgrade for a Dell Dimension 4300 Systems System http://www.crucial.com

$$ was a factor in my decisions, but I think I still did a pretty good job, should run a lot better, faster than it does now. I went back to the Dell tech spec page and looked at their upgrades then ordered the closest to what they were offering and saved quite a lot on $$

Thanks for all your Help :D :)

[John Miliunas]

Julie, good for you! Nice choices and I believe you'll end up with a pretty kick-a$$ system! :D You nailed all the points on a PC, which ultimately translate directly into added performance. Good job! Let us know how the whole conversion comes out. :cool: