Which new powder metal 5/8" bowl gouge???

[Nathan Hawkes]

Well, I'm tired of making frequent trips to the grinder, and I want a couple different profiles for 5/8" gouges anyway. I have a few different gouges, but my go-to gouge is a 1/2" "supa gouge" P&N now that actually measures 5/8" around, with a more or less "U" shaped flute, but I'm grinding to around 45deg., a pretty aggressive bowl gouge, I suppose. I grind it back when I need to reach the bottom of a deep bowl, or use sharp scrapers to refine the curve. I had been grinding more of a side grind with about a 55-60deg bevel until recently, when I started really going gung-ho with a lot of roughouts, and needed a lot more aggressive cut than it could give. I want a new gouge, with the best sharpness holding potential possible-I'm mostly ruling out the 2030 styles, because if I'm spending the money, I want the best edge possible-buy it once, without having to wonder if the extra edge of 2060 vs. 2030 was worth it. The difference in price seems to be negligible between the two, so I'm going for it, but I want some input, especially if you have used more than one different brand of the 2060 tools.

Point is, my lady wants to buy me a new gouge; she's a keeperhttp://familywoodworking.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gifhttp://familywoodworking.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gifhttp://familywoodworking.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif. I'm looking at a few different ones; Hamlet 5/8" 2060 ASP, the packard 2060 1/2" gouge, which is 5/8" around, the packard 2060 1/2" "side grind gouge, the crown pro-PM 1/2" ellsworth signature bowl gouge, and the SOLD OUT styles of Thompson tools. I'm leaving out the oneway because I want a wood handle on this one. I like the modular handles, but call me traditional. Money is always important, but I don't want the price to have any impact in choosing the right gouge. If the most expensive one is the best, so be it, the least, great. I don't care. I know gouges are really a matter of personal comfort, but I'm open to suggestions. I guess I'm looking for a general gouge that is good at both hogging and shearing, but you may change my mind and tell me to get a deep "V" and a "U" fluted PM gouge. Thanks for any suggestions folks.

Turning in VA,


Nate

[Bill Bolen]

Doug Thompson 5/8" solved for me the same problem you are having. I switched all my bowl gouges to Thompson and have never been happier!..Bill..

[Pete Jordan]

Thompson is worth the wait if it is sold out.

[Jerry Gerard]

I know your looking for a PM gouge but have you looked into the Ci1 easy rougher . There's a few videos of it in action here and on youtube.

[robert hainstock]

When you order from Doug, be specific as to 1/2" flute size, or 1/2"OD or whatever. I think his gauges are OD, and maybe smaller than you want. Mine was 1/2" and it is OD. Good luck. :):)
Bob

[Doug Thompson]

Nate, another batch will be sent out to be heat treated next Monday to restock the missing sizes, the heat treatment takes 8 to 10 days.

[Tom Steyer]

I have Thompson 5/8 and 1/2 bowl gouges. I love the 5/8 for roughing and quick inside removal, and I particularly like the "feel" for clean up and finishing cuts that I get with the 1/2 (diameter of the shafts). I also have a Crown ProPM 1/2 straight ground that I really like for the inside bottom of bowls. All of these tools hold an edge very well. With both of these brands, you get a long shaft with a long flute, so they will last a l-o-n-g time.

[Robert McGowen]

Okay, obvious subtle gloat, but the Thompson gouge even just looks good. 1/2" bowl gouge with custom (means I turned it) mesquite handle. There seems to be a common theme in your replies. :)

[Leo Van Der Loo]

You got some good suggestions here already, I just have a question, what's to prevent you from putting a wooden handle on the Oneway PM tools ??

[Nathan Hawkes]

Thanks for the replies, folks. Leo, I was under the impression that all the oneway tools were double ended. OOPS. Well, keep 'em comin' folks. I think I've made my decision, but we'll see. Thanks people.

[Nathan Hawkes]

I know your looking for a PM gouge but have you looked into the Ci1 easy rougher . There's a few videos of it in action here and on youtube.


I've seen them; its pretty impressive, but I'm more of a gouge person. I got to try one on a 1.5HP jet 1642 tonight, and could stall it pretty easily. I honestly don't know whether it was wired 120 or 240, in either case I'll be waiting 'til I wire up my salvaged 3HP motor to the VFD that is on the way.!!!:D:D:D

[Don Orr]

...I also like the Crown Pro PM series. I didn't think it was possible to get my Crowns out of my hands, but Doug did it easily with his superior tools. Well worth the small delay. I put mine in the Monster tool handles and could not be more pleased. I like wood handles but the heft and mass of Randy's Monster handles really helps with control and vibration. I think it is THE tool combination for the foreseeable future. I have a couple of Oneway's but the Thompson/Monster combo is just nicer overall. Thanks to Doug and Randy !

[Bill Blasic]

I have three Thompson 5/8 V gouges which allows me to turn all day and before I leave for the day I sharpen so they are ready for the next day. I have almost all of Doug's tools and they are the best I've seen and used. Well worth the wait!

[Jim Becker]

I own the Crown PM Ellsworth. It gives a little more edge life, but it's not "amazing". But I sharpen frequently, anyway, keeping the edge keen on my tools for best results. That frequency is anywhere between 30 seconds of cutting time on spalted material and 10-20 minutes on easy cutting stuff. I have three "identical" gouges and use them all to stretch the time actually going to the grinder. But mind you, this is for touch-up and doesn't remove much metal at all.

(Bill, I cannot imagine only sharpening once per day, unless I'm mis-reading your post. Unless it's a carbide tool, the edge just isn't going to stay usable that long no matter what kind of steel it's made of)

[Reed Gray]

Another vote for the Thompson gouges. If you want some serious hogging from your gouge, you will need to sweep the edges back a bit, as they come not very swept. How far back the sweep is, and how much torque your lathe has determines how big of a shaving you can remove. The factory grind on the Thompson gouges matched almost perfectly with my Ellsworth jig. For me, when I am roughing, I use a big heavy scraper. The shavings go up over my hand, not across the top of it. No more turning callus on my left pinky finger.
robo hippy

[Mike Minto]

I use the Crown Ellsworth PM signature gouge - it gets used more than all my other tools, combined. Mike

[Bruce Pennell]

For roughing bowls with no need to sharpen you can't beat Ci1, I do love my Doug Thompson gouges though....Bruce

[Bob Hallowell]

For roughing bowls with no need to sharpen you can't beat Ci1, I do love my Doug Thompson gouges though....Bruce
For the ci1 you can make one cheaply, just get 1/2 sq cold roll and either go to ebay and do a search for carbide inserts and find some that will work for a few bucks or look at the grizzly shelix jointer cutter head insert 10 for $20 I bet they would work also. For $20-30 you could have a tool that is close with extra cutters. All in all it is still just a scraper. I am getting ready to make a hunter style tool soon I allready bought the cutters for $4 dollars a peice on the bay.

Bob

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I always thought that the end result was the most important, not the name on the tool, I stop my lathe often to have look at the turning I'm working on, not being a production turner, I can afford the 5 or 6 seconds it takes to touch up my tool also, be it a Robert Sorby HSS or Oneway PM tool or a Crown tool, and by gosh :eek: it might be even a carbon steel tool, though that doesn't happen often :D
Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

[Bernie Weishapl]

Thompson 1/2" or 5/8" gouges. You won't look back and wonder.

[Dana Berenson]

For those of you waiting for Thompson tools, he just updated his site this weekend. Lots of the tools are now available. Since I ordered mine already, the rest of you can fight over the leftovers.

I spoke to a friend who knows a lot about metals and he said, "hands down, those tools are worth the price you pay."

[Frank Kobilsek]

I had this conversation with a well known production bowl turner and instructor a couple years ago. The engineer in me and the turner in me are still argueing with themselves over the topic. The conversation went that an HSS tool because of the course grain structure of the steel created a serated edge when sharpen that was functional in as a wet roughing gouge longer than the PM tools. The PM fine grain structure makes for a razor edge when taking the finish cut. His arguement was that both have their place but edge life when rough turning bowls was not a good arguement in his mind.

I have the ONEWAY 5/8 double ended PM Bowl gouge, Sorby 5/8 HSS and Henery Taylor 5/8 HSS. Each ground slightly different for different places on a bowl. The Oneway is the rougher at my house. I also tought the P&N Supra 1" bowl gouge was a good idea but I haven't been able to make it cut.

Frank

[Joshua Dinerstein]

So I went to Doug Thompson's website today looking at his tools. What can I say I want 1 of each! :D But sadly having just bought a mustard monster I just can't swing the price. So the question becomes which 1 do I want. :o

I was planning to get a 1/2" bowl gouge. But when I started looking at them I noticed that Doug has 2 flute profiles for his bowl gouges. A V and a U shape. Which do those of you that own them prefer?

So far I have just 1 bowl gouge. A Benjamin's Best from PSI. It has been a great tool to learn on but it suffers from the fact that well... it cost $16.95 brand new and that low prices is reflected in the quality of the steel etc...

Any strong preferences? And if so why?

Thanks,
Joshua

[Gary Max]

After reading the thread---kinda looks like one of those Ford / Chevy deals.
Just think if the price was about 1/2-------there would be a lot more folks driving the same thing.
Just my small 2 cents worth

[David Walser]

...

I was planning to get a 1/2" bowl gouge. But when I started looking at them I noticed that Doug has 2 flute profiles for his bowl gouges. A V and a U shape. Which do those of you that own them prefer?

...

Thanks,
Joshua

Joshua,

I prefer a U shaped flute to a V shaped flute:


I find the V shaped flute easier to grind. Even with a jig, the amount of "sweep" on the wings is controlled by the person standing at the grinder. With a V shaped flute, I too often end up with a tip that's too "beaky" (or pointed) in shape. This is just user error on my part, so you might want to ignore this reason for opting for a U shaped flute.
A U shaped flute allows more room for chips to clear. When roughing out a bowl from green wood, I found my V fluted bowl gouge would clog up. Not a big deal, but it is a difference.
A U shaped flute, at least in my hands, is friendlier and seems to have a wider sweet spot. Know how your spindle roughing gouge seems to be able to hold a cut almost wherever it contacts the wood? The handle could be anywhere from 45 to 90 degrees to the ways of the lathe and you can still get a good cut. You can hold the tool so the U of the roughing gouge is pointing up at the ceiling or roll it on its side so the U is facing the headstock (or the tail stock). This gives you a lot of flexibility in how you approach a cut. To a much lesser extent the same is true for a U fluted bowl gouge. The transition from tip to wing is more gradual than with a V fluted gouge. That gives you more flexibility in picking up a cut. It also makes it easier to transition the cut from the tip to the wing as you swing your gouge around the curve of your bowl.

As with most things, YMMV.

Good luck!

[Mike Ramsey]

Thanks for the replies, folks. Leo, I was under the impression that all the oneway tools were double ended. OOPS. Well, keep 'em comin' folks. I think I've made my decision, but we'll see. Thanks people.

I watched a demo by Clay Foster where he used the Oneway double
ended tools in a home made wooden handle, he drilled out the wood handle deep enough to accept the tool, to reverse it he used a screw
clamp or small hose clamp to compress the wood to hold it securely.

I have the Thompson tools & think they are far better than the Crown
Pro PM tools in my opinion, the tips of both my crown tools are terribly brittle & I have to sharpen every minute or so, not so with the Thompson tools.
I also have 2 double ended Oneway gouges & I love those also.

I really like the Thompsons because they were "FREE" -gifted to me last
Christmas by a member of my club.