Xenetech is now charging for phone tech support

[Keith Outten]

I got a letter from Xenetech the other day that informed me that they will no longer provide free telephone tech support for customers whose machines are out of warranty. Free email support is available or their customers may purchase an annual service contract or a per incident charge system is available.

The letter starts out by saying that Xenetech wants to thank us for being customers and for utilizing their customer support resources.

The letter is signed by Jimmy DuBose who is their Sales/Customer Service Manager.

Hey Jimmy, you have a very strange way of thanking your customers.
Smooth move Jimmy, very smooth move :(


I would have preferred that you fix your print driver so I wouldn't have to change printers every time I change drawing sizes and have your driver make inside vector cuts before your machine cuts the outside.

If you can't fix your print driver maybe you will offer to take your machine back and issue a full refund.

.

[Don Necaise]

Yes Keith i called last week and they let me know up front that this was the last time I could call without a fee.You are right that is a great way to treat your customer. HUH

[Bryan Cowan]

Yes Keith i called last week and they let me know up front that this was the last time I could call without a fee.You are right that is a great way to treat your customer. HUH

Nice to know for those in the market for a laser system. This puts Xenetech at the bottom of my list. Customer Support is huge on my list.

[Keith Outten]

The majority of the times I have had to call Xenetech over the last two years have been due to the bugs in their print driver. It seems unfair to charge customers for tech support when the fault is with the manufacturers software, its just salt on an already festering wound.

If your tech support center is swamped with calls maybe the problem is with your equipment Jimmy.

.

[David Fairfield]

Thats funny. You sell a product with a glitch that causes customers to call for help, what do you do?

a) hire a programmer to eliminate the glitch

b) leave the glitch and charge the customer for calling for help.

If b) its pretty obvious the company considers you, the customer, a bigger problem than software bugs! :mad:

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

Yep, in the market for a new machine...Xenetech just dropped to the bottom of my list. There's nothing I hate worse (as a practicing software engineer, to boot) than poorly written software that could be easily fixed with a few man-hours of time.

[Mark Winlund]

I got the same letter. It's not the same company since Jay died. It's sad to see a great company fall into ruin. This will be the silver spike through the heart.

Mark

[Scott Shepherd]

Doesn't surprise me one bit. Guy has been on this forum before and the arrogance towards their customers is off the charts.

It's the most arrogant laser company management I've seen in the business.

[Everett White]

I have just asked for an info packet from this company, but because of the feedback I am seeing, I may have to second guess considering this company as an option. I will purchase a laser in the future and am still gathering info.

I have already learned quite a bit from lurking here and I love the pictures and ideas everyone has.

Thank you Sawmill Creek!

[Scott Shepherd]

Let me see if I can guess the response....

"We understand your concern, but know that Xenetech makes the fastest machine on the market and our competitors don't have a fraction of the performance our machine offers."

[Ken Garlock]

While I am not a laser user, it irritates me when a company decides to give their customers the sign of international ill will.

They probably think they are in the laser engraving machine business, well they are flat wrong. The business any company is in is the CUSTOMER SERVICE BUSINESS. The product in this case is a laser driven machine.

It is customer service when you answer customer questions.
It is customer service when you sell the machine.
It is customer service when you do warranty service.
It is customer service when you answer the phone.

They need to wake up or they will have a warehouse of machines, and/or a large number of one-time customers.:eek:

[Bill Cunningham]

I can see the point of charging when someone has bought a $20.00 modem, can't be bothered reading the manual, and expects 'customer service' to make the education of his or her ignorance their lifes work, but not when you you are dealing with commercial equipment worth thousands.. It would seem that what they 'really' mean is "Thanks for the money, now don't bother us"

[Keith Outten]

Bill,

Eaxctly, and the price of the XLT-1325 60 watt was $35,000.00

I expect the other laser manufacturers are laughing at Xenetech right now.

.

[Bill Cunningham]

Ahhh and a skillfull edit there Keith :D
Sorry!!;)

[Rodne Gold]

I see they are still offering e-mail support for free.
What are they not offering , like if you have a problem with your machine in that it is doing something odd , they won't help over the phone unless you pay?
How much can phone support cost em anyway? Surely after a yr or 2 (dunno how long the warrantee is) most of their users don't need huge amounts of handholding? If something does go wrong with a laser they still gonna make money outa shipping spares , which the user would have to pay for anyway , considering the out of warrantee condition.
Do they run some huge and costly call centre?
I have started a new venture , a V8 mod shoppe , and can to some extent appreciate that calls for info are a pain in the a.s. I get a lot of calls asking for free info on jobs we havent done or guys that are doing it themselves..which IS a waste of our time as we werent responsible for the problem and that asking one of mechanics to answer IS expensive , especially since we gain NOTHING out of it. However if it is a job we have done or a car we worked on or a motor we sold etc , I would never dream of charging a customer for some info or advice if they had a problem..........mostly those enquiries result in MORE business for us cos we demonstrate our commitment to our work and products and the word of mouth advertising we garner leads to other customers.
The strength of reaction here to this policy should be ringing alarm bells for the Co , not one person has been at all sympathetic. Bearing in mind the fact that one of the most ubiquitous questions posted here is "what laser should I get?" and one of the most ubiquitous answers is"the one whose mnfgr gives you the best support" , this kind of miserlyness can cost the Co a lot more than they save.

[Jim Watkins]

Comprehensive Support—When you purchase a Xenetech laser you purchase the commitment of a U.S. manufacturer that has a 20 year track record of taking care of customers. Our distributors, customer service representatives, and technicians are experienced at quickly helping customers succeed. We provide several layers of applications and technical support to help you expand your knowledge and your business.

I guess they should update their website to correct this information which appears to be out of date...

[Keith Outten]

:)..........:)

[Jeanette Brewer]

At the risk of being "tarred & feathered" here, I thought I'd jump in the middle of this discussion to provide the details of Xenetech's new approach to tech support.

For what it's worth, I've heard from several customers (Engraving Concepts is a Xenetech distributor) that they never received the letter that Xenetech mailed last month (referenced in the opening post by Keith Outten). Additionally, if you're not a registered Xenetech owner (as in, a prospective Xenetech customer), you have likely not seen these details.

Email Support (to any/all registered Xenetech owners) is still free of charge.

New Knowledge Base on the website: 24/7 Free to all (owners, prospective owners, etc.). www.xenetech.com/kb (http://www.xenetech.com/kb)

Warranty & Extended Warranty Customers -- all support at no charge. All Xenetech systems (with the exception of the 912 system at one year) come with a 2 year warranty.

Phone Support - $35 per incident (incidents stay open until resolved) or $195 unlimited access for one year.

Other notes: Those that buy used equipment and pay the software license transfer fee have access to one year of phone support at no additional charge.

The factory has reported that our response time has improved from a previous average of 3-4 hours to "almost immediate" to less than one hour on phone support & 1-2 hours on email support.

The factory has been able to significantly improve the efficiency of providing technical information to all Xenetech owners (in warranty & out of warranty).

For those who might be interested, there are some positive emails that have been received by the factory re: this new system. I have copies of a few here at my office or, of course, you could email the factory directly for a couple of them.

[Scott Shepherd]

Jeanette, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but my problem isn't with the charging for tech support. Lot's of companies do that.

The problem, in my opinion, is when they deliver a product that has bugs in it, refuse to correct it, and then start a policy that basically says "If you call me on this problem one more time, you'll be paying for it".

In my opinion, and I have only my gut to rely on, but this was put into place BECAUSE of the large number of bugs that they refuse to fix. So it's the ultimate thumb in the eye to those who have machines and keep complaining.

Would I expect service levels to get better under this policy? Absolutely. Of course it would. It does because all the "problem children" who keep fighting to get their issues resolved that Xenetech won't fix will disappear because they won't pay to have the issues resolves. Instead, it'll make them stop calling and start living with the issues, which is what Xenetech has wanted all along.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to follow the trail. It's nothing but a ploy to shut up the people who keep calling. Sad reality is that someone can actually look at this event and rave about how great their service is now. Of course it's better, all the people with problems have stopped calling because you're charging them money for something they believe they shouldn't owe you for (a system with bugs).

Just my opinion, right, wrong, or indifferent.

[Steve Clarkson]

At the risk of being "tarred & feathered" here,

The factory has reported that our response time has improved from a previous average of 3-4 hours to "almost immediate" to less than one hour on phone support & 1-2 hours on email support.





Hmmmmmmm.........a response time of less than ONE HOUR on the phone, huh?

Yea, I'd be proud of THAT!

[Mike Null]

Scott

I think you're being unnecessarily harsh in your appraisal of this company. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have knowledge of only one problem with this company. That one problem is fairly high profile but it is one.

I get the impression from your posts if it ain't your brand it's no good.

I belong to another forum where this topic has had a fairly thorough airing. Many of the members have both types of Xenetech products and are generally very happy with their products.

The issue there, as it should be, is whether this company has made a contract relative to out of warranty support with current owners and whether they are honoring the contract.

I personally believe their decision is wrong both from a customer service and competitive standpoint. But certainly it is their right to make the change.

[Scott Shepherd]

Mike, if that's the impression you get from reading my posts, you need to reread my posts more carefully. I have constantly said that you should review all your needs before making any decisions and you shouldn't rely on a sales pitch to make that decision for you. I have spent countless hours typing posts about how you should consider many things before buying a laser. I have said that depending on your wants and needs, just about any laser might work for you. I posted extensively the details of the things I think should go into that buying decision without ever saying you should by a ULS machine and no other. I even spent plenty of time saying that a Chinese machine might be just right for you. Not sure how's that's saying that if you don't buy a ULS you are stupid. I've never said that and never will.

I think if you've missed that in my posts, then I can't control that. I have answered phone calls, emails, and PM's to me about brands. I have recommended Epilog, ULS, and Trotec to people, all within the last year. Yes, ALL of those brands. I haven't recommended other brands because I haven't seen them.

I'm not judging Xenetech from one issue at all. We own a Xenetech. We've dealt with them for about 8-10 years now. So I do think that allows me the ability to discuss the way WE were treated, coupled with the way others on this forum have been treated by Xenetech.

Despite all the requests by all the people, they have flat out refused to resolve issues with their equipment. Period. Not just the issue Keith mentioned, but on our equipment as well.

Before you come after me, please have your facts. Go read my posts. Do I spend time detailing my experience with ULS? Sure do. Why? Because few ULS or Trotec owners take the time to write detailed accounts of their dealings with these companies and I firmly believe that everyone who's looking for a system should see points of view on all machines, not just one brand.

Do I rant when I get poor customer service. You betcha. When I spend $30,000 on a piece of equipment to do a job it was sold to do, and it doesn't do it, and they won't correct the issue, you think I'm supposed to keep quiet and not recount my experiences for others who might be considering a machine? Well, if that's the case, then so be it, I'll keep my experiences to myself, and I'll let others go through the same problems we did.

We've done business with 3 major companies now. Two of them we had machine or driver issues, and neither of them fixed the issues. One of them, we've had no issues with at all. Should I keep that to myself? I guess I should.

[Steve Clarkson]

Scott,

I have benefited greatly from reading your posts and I would greatly appreciate it if you would continue to do so in the future. Reading about your experiences (and others) is the single most beneficial attribute of "The Creek".

Steve

[Mike Null]

Scott

If you've had personal experience to support your remarks about Xenetech you are cerainly entitled to voice your factual complaints and I stand corrected on that point.

I read nearly all the posts on this forum and have to say my opinion was formed by what I read. That's not to say you shouldn't be happy with your equipment and free to talk about it.

But there are two domestic laser manufacturers that you have just plain hammered.

[Scott Shepherd]

Mike, you are 100% correct.

Let me be crystal clear.

One manufacturer sold equipment with serious bugs in the software. When asked to help, we were told the only fix was a $6000 upgrade. Try running a job for 1 hour and when 5 minutes from finishing the job, it takes off to some imaginary place that's not in the graphic and destroys the job. Now try doing that about once a week or more. Any calls to tech support result in being told we need to spend $6000 to resolve the problem- a problem that wasn't mechanical. Sound fair to you? Machine was less than 1 year old.

Second manufacturer's machine had serious banding and shifting issues. So much so we couldn't run most of the jobs we bought the machine to run. After 6 months of replacing every part on the machine, we were told that there was no fix, they didn't know how to fix it, and they had no plans on giving us a time line for the fix. Couldn't even get anyone to stop by and look at the machine in action.

Now, fast forward past that and let me answer the phone, emails, and PM's by people about once a month (or more often) recounting almost the exact same issues and the exact same conversations. So it's not just me and my opinion of one machine, it's my experience of our dealings with the company as well as about one more person a month contacting us to see how we finally resolved our issues. There are certainly a handful of people on this forum who have the same issues, but they are in the middle of trying to get it all worked out, so they won't say anything publicly because they don't want to harm any possible resolution. I tried to do the same thing, but once the machine was gone, I felt it was acceptable to go public with part of our story. I left a lot out, a lot that would be quite damaging.

I'll continue to hold any and all manufacturers responsible for their service and support, as should we all. If our ULS takes a nose dive tomorrow (knock on wood) and we don't believe we get the service we should, then you better bet your paycheck we'll be standing right here talking about our experiences.

Take Barb's experience as an example. Do you think she'd be working towards a resolution if we didn't have a collective public outcry about her situation? All we have is each other, to hold manufacturers accountable. Our voice (and money) is a very powerful tool, and should be used when our voices are being ignored.

As a customer, I EXPECT to be treated the exact same way I treat our customers. I don't believe that's an unrealistic expectation when I stroke a check for the money I do for their equipment.

My only objective is to get people to look outside of one manufacturer when they shop for a machine. As as I have said before, you might be happy with a Chinese laser, or you might want a Trotec. I personally don't care what you buy, but I do care that you make an educated decision and I'll do my best to go as in depth as I can about the workings or our machines in order to help people understand more about how we use our machines. I love the "Z-Axis" feature, but I know people who never change the Z at all. So my opinion and accounts aren't meant to imply you should do as I do, they are meant to show how I do it, and if it applies to you, then so be it. If not, then that's okay too. My methods aren't right or wrong (well, probably more wrong than right),they are simply the things I do. I would imagine if we visit this thread in a year, I will be doing a lot of things different than I am today.

Hope that clears up my opinion.

[Keith Outten]

Jeanette and the folks at Engraving Concepts are knowledgeable about Xenetech's products so any input from them is valuable here. Roy has offered his opinion concerning the Xenetech print driver issue in a previous post here and as I recall he was disappointed in the problems they were having and had hopes that Xenetech would resolve the issue.

A couple of months ago when the President of Xenetech joined the conversation here about his print driver problems there was no resolution given or even a promise of resolving the print driver issue. If the top manager of a company won't promise to correct a problem it is likely it will never be resolved and it appears from my vantage point that Xenetech may decide to just move on to the next generation of their software and leave the existing problem unresolved.

I doubt there is any laser owner who wouldn't be sympathetic to how I feel about a problem that I have to face every single day knowing that it may never be resolved. I can't upgrade to Vista and use the new driver and the old driver with its nagging bugs may never be fixed. This is the nightmare that every laser owner dreads to think about, being stuck with a very expensive machine without a resolution to a problem. Needless to say it strains the relationship between customer and manufacturer and there is a loss of faith.

I have learned to judge people by what they do and not by what they say. This is a good policy and has served me well. Xenetech sold CNU an XLT1325-60 knowing full well that they had a bug in their software and did not disclose the issue to us before we placed the order. Their tech support staff admitted to me that they were aware of the problem months before we received our Xenetech laser engraver. This happens frequently with software but most of the time companies will do whatever it takes to resolve the problem, particularly when it is a serious issue.

Purchasing a laser engraver is much like a two sided coin where one side is pleasure and the other pain. Most of us are fortunate as the majority of these machines are a real joy to own and operate but the flip side of the situation can be painful beyond belief when you rely on a machine to feed your family and you end up trapped with hardware/software that is less than its specifications. I have seen both sides of this particular coin.

.

[martin g. boekers]

What I would recommend for a future laser purchaser is to ask the hard questions.

Talk upfront about support to each and every company you research. Then let them know how important it is for them to stand up for their product and support it. Then ask the harder question to put it in writing. So next year if they decide not to honor their commitment to their product line, you may have some recourse.

It took a long time for the automotive world to come up with the "lemon" law, 3 times and their out. These lasers cost every bit as much as a car and our lively hoods depend on them.

I haven't been on this forum too long, but I know certain manufactures monitor it. Why haven' they given a decent response?

As Keith pointed out, MR PRESIDENT, where are you we are here waiting to see how you will resolve this.

To me it speaks volumes when the president of a corporation doesn't
doesn't make right the product he sells.

I don't own the mentioned laser and I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I just see this type of response happen everyday, it doesn't matter where, the service station, grocery store, shopping center etc. People just don't seem to care anymore about the service they provide. It bugs me as I know I bend over backwords to make sure things happen.

Maybe the overseas laser manufacturers do have it right idea, disposable lasers, price them cheap enough that you won't worry about fixing it and buy a new one!

[lebowitz STILLMAN]

okay here's my question, if i call and pay for tech help and they cant solve my problem over the phone, do i still get charged????. well i let you know soon because my 1313 would not come on after the labor day weekend and when i finally was able to pay for help (cant blame them for the hurricane) they could NOT solve the problem over the phone and i still have to send it back (minimum 100.00 charge) as soon as i find out if they charge me the 35.00 telephone charge i will report back

Lee

2 universal lasers 1 xenetch laser and 13x13

[Jeanette Brewer]

Lee,

I can answer that one for you: The $35 will definitely be applied toward the $100 evaluation or repair fee.

[David Dustin]

I am quite opposed to censorship, but realize order needs to be maintained.
The problem arrises if there is no way to express our displeasure, we become greatly limited what we can do.

I have to admit Steve's (and others) opinions steered me away from the 2 manufacturers. That means I probably averted a major pitfall.
Steve I want to publicly thank you for speaking out. I will do the same with the products and equipment I buy and own.

It is good news that the manufacturers read this fourm.
WE are THEIR bread and butter. If they treat us poorly, we can amplify the impact of our voice by decrying it publicly (the keyboard is mightier than the sword).
There should be fair rebutal expected from the companies (although that rarely goes well in a public forum).

We need to be able to speak out, positive and negative.
We need to be responcible enough to admit when we are wrong too, and when the companies have really come through for us.

The golden rule applies here in a very tangible way...

Thanks,
David