start-up questions

[Margaret Turco]

Hi All!

I've been lurking here for a bit, considering starting up a laser-based business. I learned how to operate a 120 watt Universal X-660 at my current job which I would like to leave for various reasons. I think there is plenty of manufacturing work to be found in this area if potential customers are made aware of what a laser can do.

I have not had any problems with support from our local Universal rep, and also see good things here about support from Epilog. I'm just not sure I'm comfortable with the air assist on the Epilog keeping the optics as clean as the Universal does. We currently vector cut very dirty materials like rubber and foam and they make a lot of smoke.

In my prelimanary inquiries, I have also had several people looking for someone to cut shapes out of sheet metal, but not enough to consider investing in that type of machine. Do any of you currently have a working relationship with a waterjet cutter? Seems to me it would be best to farm out those jobs to somebody already set up to do it. I could then laser engrave the parts as needed.

I also need to find the quietest compressor I can. If I work in my garage I don't think the neighbors will be happy with a huge racket all the time. It happens that my garage came already wired with two 220 outlets, so I think I'm all set there. As for the exhaust, is there a way to filter it so I don't have a spew of debris outside my building? That would just be gross and probably kill the grass, too.

I'm panicking about quitting my current job, but I don't think I'll ever really get going on this unless I do. Any advice on other machinery I need to consider? How do you all cut your stock to fit your laser bed size, or do you order it pre-cut?

I would be happy for advice/encouragement. I've found a lot of information just reading past posts, thank you all very much!

Margaret

[Joe Pelonio]

Starting a laser business is a big step that's full of risk, you can read several previous threads on it.

The Epilog air-assist is not meant to keep the optics clean, but is there to blow debris off of the area as it's engraved and blow out flame when cutting.
I have not studied how it works on other brands, but I'd doubt that it could help keep optics clean, you just have to clean them regularly. You do have an advantage with Epilog in that their tech support (and factory) are fairly local to you.

I will cut stock on the table saw or with a circular saw when I have to but most of the time I have suppliers that cut free to 12"x24" which is my maximum laser size.

A nice quiet airbrush pump works fine, you don't need a loud compressor. A filter system can cost several thousand. The exhaust is pretty much debris free, it's mostly the fumes that are annoying or even dangerous. As long as you stick to recommended materials venting outside is fine as long as there's some distance between the outlet and any open windows of your shop or neighbors. When at a business park, I had several visits from the Fire Department due to reports of "burning plastic smell" though they never
made me change anything or stop. It will not hurt the grass or any other plants. The only debris is a fine sticky black dust that accumulates inside the duct system. Here at my home I have it vented to the side and am on a 1/3 acre corner lot so it's a good 50' to the nearest neighbor's window and after 1.5 years they have never noticed.

I have used one of the members here, Jack Harper for waterjet work, and was very happy with the price and quality of this logo, the smaller letters below I did on the laser.

http://members.aol.com/bisjoe/evowall.jpg

[Margaret Turco]

Thanks for your insight Joe! I will certainly continue looking up previous threads on this topic to get more information as well. :)

[Scott Shepherd]

An airbrush compressor will not run a Universal laser. It requires more CFM than the airbrush compressors can provide. The ULS system provides and air shield at each mirror, and with the computer controlled air assist, you can have the air turn on and off with each color, and vary the flow rate per color as well. It's a very different animal than the Epilog.

If you want quiet, you're looking in the $1500 range for one that will deliver the proper CFM quietly (near silent).

There are filtration system available and ULS offers one of the best out there, but it's expensive to say the least, not to mention the expense of filters.

[James Jaragosky]

I use a Fumex system for filtering my exhaust, it works well and only cost about $800.00 Vs thousands for some of the other options.
IT is not 100% but I can cut plastic in my shop and it only smells a little, and only very near the machine.
As far as quitting your job to start a laser business. I will tell you what I would tell a friend or family member that was considering the same thing.
Everything always looks greener on the side of the fence .
Keep in mind
You will need to support yourself and your business for several months before you will be able to have your business support you.
The #1 one reason most small business fail is under capitalization.
Do you have a well thought out and written business plan? I would highly recommend makeing one, it will help you in the long run.
Also many new would be business owners have no clue as to how to keep books and set pricing, it is not as straight forward or simple as it would seem. I would recommend a accountant or a good accounting program along the lines of quick books.

When you say you run a laser currently, do you do all the graphic and file work or just operate the machine? most of the real work is in all the computer time you spend setting up jobs, not in running them.

Owning your own small business can be very rewarding, but it can also be equally stressful even for someone with the best business plan.
I wish You success in what ever you decide to do.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Margaret,

If you are truely panicking about leaving your job, you aren't ready.

I would consider finding a job (at least for a year) with a company that does just about what you THINK you'd like to do, but that you won't later compete with directly. You'll need to work as a sub for them later... If you try and compete, their loyal clients will stay away from you.

When you ARE ready, you'll run for the door having a six-month $ cushion, a prospective client list, samples of your work, a catalog and price list, this list goes on and on.


"I think there is plenty of manufacturing work to be found in this area if potential customers are made aware of what a laser can do."

This will take a year, if not more to eventually keep a laser busy. The businesses who discover there's a new laser in town will need YOU to show them how to make money from your services or to switch from whoever they're using now. Lots of time, time, time.....

Setting up the laser is the last of your concerns. Don't do it until you know what you'll be feeding into it.

[Margaret Turco]

Thank you all for your replies so quickly! I am in the process of writing a business plan and I intend to make full use of the SMBC that is about three blocks from my house for assistance. My panic is due to the fact that I really want to get out of my current job because of the commute and the direction my position is changing, but I still have a lot to learn about business insurance, health insurance, zoning regulations for my area, etc. This is all difficult to do when I get a guilt trip at work if I want to take a couple of hours off. I do not do personal business on company time or equipment.

I have done all the work preporatory to actually cutting the designs as well as the cutting. I learned on AutoCad but have transferred most of that knowledge over to Corel. I never would have considered this as an opportunity if I didn't enjoy it so much. I don't really like the endless conversations with individual customers who don't know what they want though. That is time that could be better spent doing something else unless they are willing to pay for product development. We get a lot of entrepeneurs and I do like helping them succeed, but I don't think they should get 10-20 hours of my time for free, either with my current employer or otherwise. This can be everything from product design to material selection to manufacturing methods.

I currently also do job estimating and purchasing for my current employer (and for the past 15 years) so I have a good idea of how that works. I will have to learn Quickbooks for the accounting, but as a one-person shop I don't imagine it would be that complex.

I almost left the current job a couple of months ago but am holding on to build the nest egg a little more. I get a bit frustrated with management types who are unable to look up a phone number or upload a digital picture by themselves. Plus my boss spits a lot when he talks.

I have several contacts who are interested in the capabilities of the laser and I feel that after sharing some information and examples with them I could get orders. My current employer is not pushing that side of the business and I don't think is taking advantage of the possibilities out there. My job does not normally include customer contact but it happens once in a while anyway because the sales people don't know the right questions to ask new customers. Sigh. I'm getting cranky as I get older.

I am quite determined to do this unless something else magically comes along in the next month or so. Thanks for the opportunity to rant/vent. I will keep you posted.

[Bill Cunningham]

I have a 15 cfm piston compressor 20 feet away from the laser. The noise comes from the air intake(s), and simply venting the intakes outside with a air filter on the end(s) will make them very quiet... My neighbors house is less than 40 feet from the intakes, and he has no problem with them.. Just keep the air filters clean, as you would the air filter on your car..

[Brian Robison]

Margaret,
Have you thought about doing this part time?
If your as cleaver as I think you are you could probably
sub out the work you've lined up until you can get your own laser. Look at doing things in steps. First get the work if it doesn't interfere with your present work, you can do the drawings, and send off the order with the files to get lasered. Use this only to start the ball rolling. Next step, get the laser, supplies and other equipment. THEN, once everything is well, quite your job.

[Margaret Turco]

Thanks Bill and Brian. The thing about part time is that I can't figure out how to get the orders outside of the normal work day. I can't really tell people that they can only call me between 4:30 and 5 pm. I guess it would be different if I had another person available to take and make phone calls etc. during the day. I will consider it though, if I can find customers who I can contact by email and who are not time-critical.

[Jack Harper]

...I have used one of the members here, Jack Harper for waterjet work, and was very happy with the price and quality of this logo, the smaller letters below I did on the laser.



Thank you for the kind words Joe.

Margaret - Welcome to the board. As a fellow Coloradoan, I would pay particular attention to the zoning ordinances for Aurora. They usually only allow home businesses that are office based. The minute they get wind of any industrial activity they get testy. You could probably fly under the radar so long as the neighbors cooperate, but that is a big if in any neighborhood. Good luck.

[Belinda Barfield]

Margaret,

The others have given you sound advice. I would add one thing, if you have not previously owned your own business, talk to others in your area that have. You will be trading one set of headaches for another in some cases. Particularly in the beginning it is difficult to run the business, instead of the business running you. When you really need work you will find yourself working weekends, right up to the last minute during holidays, working 12, 14, 20, sometimes 24 hour days. If you are running this business from home be prepared, as Phyllis Meyer can attest, for customers to show up on your doorstep just any old time. It takes a person with a very strong will to keep business and home separated, especially when business is just steps away. You can't just walk away at 5:00 and let everything be someone else's problem. The paychecks won't just arrive by direct deposit. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are folks out there who haven't encountered any of these situations, but many of us have. Being self employed is a big step.

Having said all that, if you decide to take the plunge I'm sure you will do well as it sounds like you are doing your homework in advance.

[David Fairfield]

From your initial comment, it sounds like you're planning to laser a lot of rubber and foam. Rubber is the filthiest, most foul smelling substance I've ever cut, I would estimate rubber puts out at least 50x more soot than an equivalent amount of wood, plus it is toxic. A lot of unpleasant post-job cleanup is involved with rubber cutting orders.

So I think Jack's comments about zoning and downwind neighbors are a very important consideration. If you get a filter system, expect to change / clean it often, and definitely duct your exhaust to the outside, with the blower outside so you have vacuum pressure in your internal ducting, thus no fume leakage. Also expect to clean your machine often, regardless of the make.

Dave

[Charlie Bice]

A lot of good advice.

We started our business 3 yrs ago. It is a part time for me, full time for my wife and we still are not to the point where it would support us. Plan on at least a year (or two or three) to get established. That's why I am still working at another job.

Work hours. Part of the problem in a very small business is the overhead work hours. The number of hours for book keeping, customer interactions, ordering, packaging, shipping, etc is almost as much as the number of hours available for production. Since you only get 'paid' for the production hours it creates a problem in cash flow.

If we did not live in the county I would be very nervous about city ordnances. A fellow operator got in a bind when he mentioned that he would be painting and working with painted products. He finally removed that from his permit. When operating a factory I had to obey EPA specs and they are tight. Do you have 'burn' and 'no burn' days? You might find yourself not able to work in your house on 'no burn' days, especially if a neighbor mentions 'burning odors'.

Good luck on your venture.

charlie

[Mark Winlund]

Margaret: I'll be short and to the point.....

1) the air system on a ULS does keep the optics clean... by a factor of at least 20 to 1.

2) Don't quit your day job.

3) Have you considered trying to work things out with your boss? 15 years is a lot of experience for him to lose, not to mention training a potential competitor.

4) Don't quit your day job.

5) It will be far more expensive than you think.

6) Don't quit your day job.


Mark

[Mitchell Andrus]

Ditto on the air. Mine floods the lens area with fresh air forcing the debris away. I cut a lot of wood and never see dust on the lens.

Ditto on everything else.

[Margaret Turco]

Thanks a lot guys! I have to keep my day job, even with the spitting and all? I may see if they'll let me go to part time for a while so I can have some days free to work on this. I so do not intend to cut rubber or foam on my own. We have to do that sometimes at my current job so I know how nasty it is.

I'm seeing a lot of great ideas about how to keep things clean and quiet and I'm sure I can make some of these things work for me.

I'm thinking about the comments regarding how much time is spent doing things other than actual laser cutting and will have to estimate how that should impact my pricing. In my current estimating position we have established overhead rates but I had not really thought that through yet in my own case.

I learn a lot every time I log on here and I appreciate your consideration very much. Thanks to all for your comments!

[Larry Bratton]

Margaret:
I dunno about the ULS optic cleaning...But pay heed to what Mark said. It's a tough "row to hoe" right now in this economy.

Timing is everything in starting a new business and NOW AIN"T THE TIME.