Buying a 3hp shaper

[Steve Hooper]

HI Folks:

It’s been awhile since I had a line in your water.

I recently had a small windfall that I intend to put into my shop.

The intent is to buy a Powermatic 8” jointer. Then retire my old sears.

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I also intend to buy a 3hp shaper. The choices are: the Powermatic 25A, or Delta 43-445, or Jet JWS-25CS.

Do any of you know of a review done on shapers that include these three?

What are your opinions?

Thanks
Steve Hooper in rainy NC

[Bruce Page]

Steve,

If the 8" PM jointer is anything like the smaller 6" PM jointer that I have, then it's a well built machine. I can't help you on the shaper - those things scare me! :eek: :eek:

[nic obie]

Steve,

If the 8" PM jointer is anything like the smaller 6" PM jointer that I have, then it's a well built machine. I can't help you on the shaper - those things scare me! :eek: :eek:

I whole heartily agree!

[John Weber]

Steve,

I bought the Delta 3hp last year after initially thinking I could only afford an imported or used machine. Once I was able to see an imported shaper (General International much like the Jet) and the Delta side by side, the decision was easy. The Delta is a much more refined machine, smooth operation, nicer castings, all cast iron undercarriage vs. some stamped steel used it the General. The fence on the Delta is also vastly superior to the imports, very easy to adjust and excellent dust collection. The Delta also has the largest table, well engineered and refined drive system, and is still made in the USA with an American made motor by Marathon and US built controls, plus the finest control on spindle height adjustment of any competitive machine. This is extremely important in ease of setup - most people never think of it at first. Some other benefits of the Delta are excellent fit and finish and a 2 year warranty, Delta has a great package, you get router collets and a mobile fence for not much more then an import when all factors are considered. The better warranty and refinement of the Delta are well worth the extra cost. Of the imports the Sunhill (similar to the Powermatic 25a) seemed to offer the best value of large spindles, and overall very heavy duty construction. The imports seem to compete more on price, and you need to look for plastic parts, overall finish, and sheet metal vs cast iron under the top. I think the imports are a good value, but the Delta just offers the total package.

Right now Woodworkers Supply has the Limited Edition Shapers on sale, plus you can save another 10% if you are a new customer.

I just added a power feeder and the shaper is a dream to use.

John

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=43-437

[Steve Hooper]

Thanks for your input John:

What do you think with Depta vs Powermatic?

Steve

[John Weber]

Steve,

I would rate a Powermatic 26 or 27 shaper ahead of the Delta for heavy duty, but the Delta has a better fence. I would rate the 25a a step down from the Delta as the Asain motor and controls and well as overall refinement are typically not as good for the imported shapers, although I think it specs out a little heavier then the Delta. Given the price of a PM 26/27 the Delta is a great buy. WWS's package includes a mobile base and router collets if that is of interest to you. I used some 1/2" router panel bits with great success. Here is my setup. The Steff/Maggi feeders are great.

John

http://www.weberwoodworking.com/picsw04/powerfeedernew2.jpg

[Michael Perata]

Steve

You'll notice the power feeder John has on the shaper. That might be the best safety device made for the machine. I have a Delta 36-850 on my MiniMax shaper and got it on sale for about $450.

I would also recommend not bothering with a 1/2" spindle, and unless you are going to be doing production work, 1 would not invest in a lot of 1 1/4" tooling, there is more than enough good to high quality stuff out there for 3/4" shafts.

[Alan Turner]

John
Thanks for the info. I just picked up a used PM 26, from about 1980 or so, and a friend has ofdfered me a powerfeeder. It is a Delta, and I am not sure of the size yet. What is big enough? Will I have to drill the table to mount it? How do I do that? Perhaps rent a magnetic drill press? Mine has the 1" spindle cartridge, unmounted at present, and someone told me that the 3/4" spindle should be fine. I take it you would agree with that. Where should I be looking for shaper cutters? So many questions! This is my first shaper, and I intend to be quite careful.
Alan

[Richard McComas]

Steve, I haven't look at the new sharpers in a while but I have an older Delta and the shaper built in to my Felder Kf 700 saw/shaper. In my view the two main things to look at on a shaper, one is the motor (I like American or Euro made if possible). More importantly is the fence system on the shaper. A hard to adjust shaper fence or one that does not hold its setting can take all the fun out of using a shaper so make sure you research the fence on the shaper you choose.

Also budget for a power feeder.

[John Weber]

Alan,

The old PM's are sweet machines when in good condition. My feeder is a 1/2hp, I originally bought a 1/4 hp feeder, but it didn't have enough reach for how I wanted to mount it. The Steff 2033 is an awesome feeder much nicer then the Maggi 312-2 I upgraded from. I think a 1/2 hp feeder would be plenty for most home shops. If I were a pro I would likely get a 1 hp monster. I think you could get by with a 1/4 hp feeder, but they typically have a lot shorter reach then the larger feeders, making them more of a challenge to position. Most of the smaller feeders (less them 1 hp) are either made in Italy by Maggi (Steff, Felder) or in Taiwan by Co-Matic (Delta, Sunhill, King, etc...).

As for drilling cast iron, no problem just clamp the base in place as a guide, and use a little oil to make drilling easier.

Your 1" spindle will be fine, although cutters are easier to find in 3/4" and 1-1/4" size. You can use bushings with a larger bore cutter. Freeborn is one on the top names in cutters, Freud also makes a good cutter. For low cost, Grizzly sells a decent cutter. I bought a HSS replaceable cutter head from CMT with 13 profiles for around $170. Amanda makes a nice cutter head set as well. You can even grind your own cutters, but I haven't done it yet

I used my shaper a year before I bought the feeder, using it with the feeder is like night and day. I now feel comfortable using the shaper, almost like feeding a planer.

John

[Steven Wilson]

Besides Freeborn, CMT, Grizzly, etc. take a look at the tooling from Felder. Around Christmas time they have some decent prices on insert tool which can be good value for profiles that get used a lot (rebate cutters, slot cutters, etc).