New Holtey Plane No.982

[Johnny Kleso]

http://www.holteyplanes.com/index.htm

Made very much like Ron Brese's planes execpt for the dowel pins..

Karl milled the pins before on the No.98 fron solid stock of the base plate..

Seems now he is using custon screws..

I had an idea a few years back to just use flat head screws..

Anyway scheck out the adjuster, I think it's an awesome design with a ton of work..

[Shannon Vincent]

Wow,and it only costs $7,924.60 USD!:eek: :rolleyes:

[Jack Camillo]

Beautiful piece of work at a premium price. But really now, beneficial to better wood working? I think not. For show and bragging rights? Ooooh, yes.

[Steve Pirrelli]

Not crazy about the aesthetics. I thought the 98 was better looking. Don't like the way the front
knob is tilted forward. Just personal tastes. I like everything else he makes.

[Shannon Vincent]

I wasnt going to say anything else,but...For 8 grand..and its made out of hot rolled steel...:confused: It better be made of tungsten,some Turned ground and polished and Inconel for that kind of coin.(It would weigh alot more too).And the main attractions of an infill (for me) is the amount of more intricate metal work involved for the sides and base.(dovetailing)The time spent peening,flattening and polishing after assembly,And the exotic woodwork involved.A larger display of hand craftsmenship as a whole.That plane is much more production line machine workish.Just my opinion.(Maybe I have spent too many years in machine shops and sheetmetal shops to get past it I guess.Again,just my 2 cents.

[Larry Williams]

http://www.holteyplanes.com/index.htm

Made very much like Ron Brese's planes execpt for the dowel pins..

Karl milled the pins before on the No.98 fron solid stock of the base plate..

Seems now he is using custon screws..

I had an idea a few years back to just use flat head screws..

Anyway scheck out the adjuster, I think it's an awesome design with a ton of work..

Well, he finally got the pitch right for a hard wood finishing plane. It's only taken 250 years for folks to realize this was all figured out before.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I would like to know how many planes he moves in any given year.

[Bruce Page]

Extremely exquisite machining & design. He has some very accurate CNC equipment.
As a former R&D machinist, I get goose pimples looking at this level of craftsmanship.

[Frank Drew]

I'm with Bruce; the guy's workmanship is at such a high level. Personally, I prefer the look of his infill planes but I take his point about stability, etc.

I don't resent him the prices he charges -- he's inarguably one of the best in the world at what he does, and the work he's doing now is the culmination of a lifetime's working and learning.

Look at all the worthless, overpaid so-and-so's working on Wall Street, entertainment, etc.... :rolleyes:

[Shannon Vincent]

He has some very accurate CNC equipment.
My point, exactly.

[Bruce Page]

My point, exactly.
I hear you Shannon. My comments were directed more to the quality of machining and his fit & finish (it sure is purdy), rather than value. At his asking price, he should have at least made it out of some 17-4 or 15-5 stainless heat treated to about H1100.

[Derek Cohen]

You guys are so funny!!! :) :)

I have art hanging on my walls that cost (a lot) more than this plane, and I am sure that many of you have too.

Hands up all of you that are seriously considering buying this plane? Or even one that is even 1/10th the price?

Hats off to Karl Holtey for his superlative work. Does it matter whether he does 90% or 50% or 10% with machines? This man is the universally accepted master of toolmakers. He has about 3 decades or more of experience and expertise in his planes. He is a perfectionist and I suspect that you would be amazed at the time taken to build one of his planes to the level he does. You and I could not do it at twice the price. His prices reflect that HE has a demand in this price range. Otherwise he would starve as he does this full time. It is not a hobby.

You and I know that we would like one. Perhaps we can convince Karl to lower his prices for a group purchase? Who is in? :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Steve Pirrelli]

You guys are so funny!!! :) :)


You and I know that we would like one. Perhaps we can convince Karl to lower his prices for a group purchase? Who is in? :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

I'll contribute 2 bucks. That should be enough to make one shaving with.:)

I do like the idea that he takes the romance out of the wood infill in infill making. Many have written that
it is the combination of metal shell with exotic wood bed that makes infills great performers. He just seems to like
the wood as a handle or for aesthetics and prefers the blade bedded on more stable materials. I enjoy seeing
his products and love the idea that great craftsman can make a good living. This is the first one he's made that
doesn't make me drool.

[Johnny Kleso]

Why Karl is using Hot Rolled (has a thick rusty, crudey out side surface) vs Cold Rolled (nice clean surface almost ground looking)

The Hot Rolled is much more stable as it is rolled to size between rolls hot and not rolled colled which builds up stress...

I asked many years ago at a job why anyone would buy hot rolled over cold rolled other than it cost a little less.. You have to machine or grind the surface before you use it most times and is not to size either like colled roll comes most time -.007 to +.000

I too was suprised it was not SS like the No.98 he makes..

[Jack Camillo]

Sure, Derek, I don't think anyone would argue with anything you say. And my point is that it IS art. While certainly it would be an incredible joy to use, and one could not overstate the fine precision workmanship, etc., it's not at all necessary when working with wood. Hell, I'd love to have some of his tools, but not because it would do anything to boost the results of my woodworking. Or yours for that matter. Correct?

[Derek Cohen]

While certainly it would be an incredible joy to use, and one could not overstate the fine precision workmanship, etc., it's not at all necessary when working with wood. Hell, I'd love to have some of his tools, but not because it would do anything to boost the results of my woodworking. Or yours for that matter. Correct?

Hi Jack

I don't see it as a matter of correct or not. I understand and accept your point, but there really is no answer here. It is all relative.

First off, however, I would disagree with the assumption that Karl tends to view infill as ornament (not made by you Jack. Sorry, if it appears I am disagreeing with you - for I am not - I agree in principle with what you wrote. I am using your reply as a springboard to answer more generally). Reading his website info, as well as the couple of exchanges we have had via email, it is apparent that he is ever looking at a better and more improved construction of his planes for both performance and reliability.

For example, a few years ago Karl modified the bed construction of his infill planes so that, if (when) the wooden infill moved or shrunk over time (future generations?), then the performance of the plane would not be affected. What he did was to add brass "pillars" on which the blade would rest.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/HolteyNorrisadjuster2.jpg

One could argue that the wooden infill's main purpose to to provide damping properties, and that it is this that reduces chatter. Therfore the main focus in plane building should be to deal with this issue. How one does so is a choice, not a prescription.

Infill is not a prerequisite for superior performance. For example the best performer I have used to date is the Marcou, and it does this with high mass (very high mass!) ..

OK, the second and main issue ..

The cost of a tool, be it power or hand, is irrelevant. Who is to say that something is really worth the asking price? One WW could argue that anything above a simple Stanley is extravagence. Another might say that only planes of the performance of a LV, LN or C&W are worth having.

We don't need to spend much money on tools to do woodworking. I have a bunch of really wonderful, some quite expensive (for the "average" WW) tools, yet over this year I have only used a few, some quite basic ones as the remainder were packed away owing to building at home. Some were tools I made myself. That did not stop me woodworking, or even enjoying it. And some of the stuff I made came out quite well. Good enough to enter a WW competition and good enough to sell some of the things I made. A couple of hand saws, a few chisels and three or four inexpensive handplanes. The only power tool was a 14" bandsaw. Most of the wood I used started as either rough sawn or salvage.

I am now in the process of re-building the workshop. I spent yesterday building a stand for my Jet mini lathe out of a recycled pine roofing truss about 10" x 3" x 6', and I had to four-square it with a Stanley #5 1/2 alone. A Japanese rip saw and chisel, and a brace were all had. It can be done. ... However ... I cannot wait to get back to some order ..... and to have access to my "fine" tools. It is not because I need them, but because I enjoy them.

Does one need a Colen Clenton mitre square ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Other/Perth%20Wood%20Show%202008/ColenClentonmitre2.jpg

.. or a Chris Vesper sliding bevel gauge? ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Other/Perth%20Wood%20Show%202008/ChrisVesperslidingbevel3.jpg

.. or even a LN Boggs spokeshave? ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Other/Perth%20Wood%20Show%202008/LNspokeshave.jpg

:)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Steve Pirrelli]

I agree with much of what you said Derek. Except that having read some of Holtey's articles and opinions gives me
the impression that the infill(wood) is the part of the infill he trusts least regarding future plane performance. Which is
why he innovates designs that rely more on other stable materials. I believe some of his planes as well as other
modern makers have helped debunk the myth about wood helping reduce chatter. A well machined bed made of stable
material is where it's at.

[Steve Pirrelli]

To clarify I don't mean where it's at concerning the ultimate performers. My favorite smoother now is
probably my Krenov woody. And my Knight plane is a great performer. Just meant where it's at concerning
longterm performance and trouble free reliability.

[Doug Shepard]

...
I have art hanging on my walls that cost (a lot) more than this plane, and I am sure that many of you have too.
...


Naw. My velvet blacklight Elvis art didnt cost nowhere near that.:D But if I was to have a midlife crisis and the choice was between buying that plane and dating 20 year old bimbos in my new sports car, I'll take the plane. It would be a lot cheaper and more satisfying in the long run.

[Jack Camillo]

dunno, doug, tough call

[Doug Shepard]

Derek
That Chris Vesper bevel gauge looks interesting. I'd never heard of him. I've got a Stanley UK gauge (highland Hardware over here used to carry them) with a similar design and I prefer it over a couple others I have. But it's got one annoyance from a bit of slop between the blade slot and body. So unless you're really paying attention, it's easy to lock down an angle only to realize later that the blade edge is below the body slightly and your angle needs to be reset again. Is this something inherent in that style or does Mr Vespers version have that solved?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Doug

Chris makes beautiful tools. He is the new toolmaker on the block, the next Colen Clenton, and, while still young (compared to me!), he is getting recognition internationally. I met up with Chris at the recent Perth Wood Show (two weekends ago). Having managed to get through the whole weekend there (I was demonstrating handtool use for Lie-Nielsen Australia) without spending a cent on tools, I broke down and bought this sliding bevel (well Chris gave me a little discount).

It is really stunning, both in looks and in use. Very solid - quite heavy as it is mostly brass with a thick stainless steel blade. Compared to others that are built of wood, this one has a little wood as infill. The lock is solid. Absolutely no movement, and it is easy to apply. Chris told me that he has paid special attention to this area.

Here is his website: http://www.vespertools.com.au/

I had a rather special time at the Woodshow, coming away not only with the sliding bevel, but also the Boggs spokeshave (a gift from LN), and the Colen Clenton mitre square (above). Colen traded this with me for one of my marking knife sets. I know I came off best here! However I was thrilled that he thought highly enough of the knife and scratch awl I make.

Incidentally, there is an upgrade on the knife making tutorial on my website (end of article).

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/A%20Knife%20for%20Marking%20Dovetails.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Dave Anderson NH]

I don't know Derek, you must now have more really nice top of the line tools than about anyone I know. Your scores at the show are particularly great. Your output in homemade tools and in completed projects is amazing. Since you have a day job, I've always wondered how you find the time to work, work wood, make tools, and keep up your website. Are you one of those folks who gets by on 4 hours sleep a night? I'm truly impressed.

[Derek Cohen]

Dave

I have a time machine.

Regards from Perth

H G Wells

[Eddie Darby]

I like to use Holtey Planes as a good reason to buy LN and LV planes, since they suddenly look cheap in comparison, and hence a good buy!:D

This way even if I don't buy one, I still benefit from them being around.

Keep them coming!!!!