kitchen cabinet project questions

[Milan Kothari]

Here goes...my first post. I'm starting off on an ambitious kitchen cabinet project and have some questions and any advise for this newbie would be greatly appreciated.

1) Since all the cabinet boxes will not be seen due to face frames, outside panels, etc., can I go with Shop Grade A1 plywood which is about 1/2 the price as compared to the real good stuff?

2) Does it matter if I go with Red Birch or Maple plywood? Maybe I should use the same material I plan on using for the drawers so when opened, it all looks the same?

3) Do these boxes need to be finished on the inside? If so, any recommendations on what to use?

[steve reeves]

If this is a "budget" job you can use melamine or painted mdf for that matter.

I would not use any unfinished product though. Kitchen cabinets get things leaked and spilled on them which would cause some staining which would later prove near impossible to remove so you'd end up having to paint them after the fact.

I'd at least clear coat anything that's going on the inside.

Properly sealed and painted MDF can be made very water resistant and I've seen all manner of "hybrid" cabinet construction... plywood kick panels (to protect from wet floors) and plywood bottoms in the under sink cabinets with MDF everywhere else... etc. etc. etc.

While this is likely for your family's own use, frames, drawers and doors are what sell cabinets anyway.... most of the ladies of the house once getting the exterior "look" that they want their primary concern on the inside is how easy will it be to clean.... thus you need finished surfaces.

[Milan Kothari]

Thanks Steve. I am planning on using walnut for the exterior surfaces (doors, drawer fronts, face frames, etc.) so maybe I will consider using better grade plywood even though it won't be seen on the inside.

[Joe Chritz]

A1 is really good grade plywood and I have never seen it mentioned with "shop grade".

If you are looking to save some money then melamine is a good alternative to plywood for the sides. It is used extensively in cabinets with very good results.

I normally use B2 grade maple ply since I have a decent local supply for good quality stuff and it is less than A1 birch. Inside the cabs don't know the difference.

You won't see inside with the drawers opened. You will see the upper insides a little with the doors opened.

A few pointers I have learned.

Pre-finish everything possible. Use 1/2" for backs. Build the boxes 30.5 tall and use a seperate toe kick or a ledger and leg levelers. Remember to pre-drill for shelf supports (DOH!) and pocket screws if you are going to use them to attach the face frames, which I highly recommend. Label everything, twice.

Good luck it is a big project but worth it many times over.

Joe

[Milan Kothari]

Thanks Joe. Any suggestions on what product to use to prefinish the boxes and drawers, both inside and out? Something clear would be preferred.

[Jeff Duncan]

When your talking about doing a kitchen I think your bets bet is to spend a few extra bucks and buy yourself pre-finished maple ply. I just can't see any value in buying unfinished ply, sanding, and finishing. Too much time and labor.
good luck,
JeffD

[Rick Potter]

I agree with Jeff. The prefinished birch or maple ply costs about $45 where I am, and the best reason for me to use it on my upcoming kitchen is not so much the prefinished aspect, it is that the finish they use on it is almost bulletproof, much more durable than anything I could apply.

If cost is a big concern, I would go with the melamine, for the same reason.

Another consideration is that the plywood weighs much less than PB, and is easier to install for that reason.

Unless you plan on hardwood dovetailed drawers, I suggest 1/2" baltic birch. It is flat, doesn't warp, and is easy to work with.

Rick Potter

[Ed Peters]

I use 3/4" thick white melamine for nearly every kitchen I build and there have been a few. Sides, tops, shelves, bottoms and yes, backs also. I permanently locate the shelves for the uppers in dado's on each side and the back. They get their front edges banded with 1/4" thick solid stock after the face frame is attached. On the lower cabinet for the sink, all the seams are sealed after assembly with white silicone. Drawer boxes are all 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood, including the bottoms. Inside surfaces are sanded, sealed and then the joint is machined prior to assembly. Watching my installations may give some a heart attack. I employ a unified faceframe meaning it is an uninterupted assembly from end to end except where it turns the corner. There you will find a field constructed joint to allow for transportation to the job site. The boxes are all connected on the floor and then hoisted to a hanging rail that lines up with a dado plowed into the backs of the cabinets. Most kitchens will consist of two major lifts of uppers and then the standard installation of the lowers with the same format of the unified face frame. Strong back, weak mind and a brother/partner just like me.

Ed

[Milan Kothari]

Thank you guys. My first experience with this forum has been great. Appreciate your feedback!

Milan

[Peter Quinn]

Consider using melamine for the sink box, pre-finished maple ply elsewhere. The sink box takes the bulk of the leaks and is the first thing to look bad in most kitchens. Melamine is a hard wearing surface in a tough area. I personally would not spend money on A-1 for box interiors, probably would go B-2. I also would not use walnut faced ply for interiors as I like things light enough in color to see when I open a door, maple really brightens things up, and walnut ply is pretty pricey. Maybe if you have open shelving or doors with lites. Either way the interior should be finished. Lacquer is a favorite as it dries quick and is relatively tough. Check out Target coatings for water based options you can spray without a booth if you go that route.

Otherwise I don't like anything about melamine other than the price. Its heavy, its sharp when cut, its a general pain to work with, and it looks cheap. Please don't anyone try to change my mind by letting me know how many fancy kitchens it has been put in. It has the tactile comfort and visual appeal of a plastic milk jug. As a wood worker I find it offensive. Opinions do vary.

Pick your hardware first so you know how to size things like drawers, openings, overlays etc. Get some samples and some spec sheets for slides and hinges, get spec sheets on all new appliances in advance and measure any being reused. Get sheets on any new plumbing fixtures or electrical devices to be built in. It really sucks to stop and build a new box on the fly in the middle of an install with your old kitchen in a dumpster. It also sucks to make some beautiful dovetail drawers and find out they don't fit the opening due to slide clearance issues. Pick the hardware first, then build the kitchen.

You can out source as much or as little of a kitchen project as you require or desire these days. I'm not saying you need to, but realize that you can if you would like or need to. You can order all the plywood precut, dadoed, prefinished, on a palate if you want. You can get doors, drawers, even face frames if you wish. Or you can make it all. As an example I work in a shop that has three guys that know how to make dovetail drawers but not one of them wants to or can do it cheaper than a local drawer shop does. They come made to our specs, prefinished, perfect every time.

Good luck and have fun with it. I'm sure it will turn out well and give you a better product than most factory units as a reward for your hard work.

[fRED mCnEILL]

In ther kitchen that I built we installed drawers in ALL the lower cabinets with the exception of the sink box. Therefor I was able to use cheaper plywood because the insides are not seen.As my cazbinets were european design(no facevframe) all the edges had 1 inch hardwood.


On the uppers I used a hardwood cabinet grade and spray laquered the inside after they were constructed. Shelves are adjustable.

I also made sure all the cabinets were done and finished prior to demolition of the old kitchen .Total downtime was a little over a month and this included new hardwood floor that had to be sanded and finished.

Good luck

Fred

[Jim Becker]

I'm with Fred on the drawers...I did this when I renovated our kitchen back in 2003. Larger drawers on full extension slides are SO much easier to work with than cabinets with doors.

[James Phillips]

Pre finished Maple Ply is your friend when doing a kitchen