Accurate, yet reasonably priced, combo square...

[Michael Donahue]

Can you guys recommend an accurate, yet reasonably priced, combo square? I've tried an Empire model from the borg and a Craftsman, both under $15 and both ultimately let me down. I don't want to have to spend a fortune on one if I can avoid it, but I really need one that works. What good is a square that isn't really square, right?

Woodcraft has one for $25 that looks decent but I don't have any experience with it http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3064

Can anyone comment on that one or give me some other advice?

Thanks!

[Thomas Williams]

One of the WW mags did a test on the combo squares. They felt the Stanley contractor model was not too bad for the price. http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-46-123-12-Inch-Contractor-Combination/dp/B00002X2HE
I don't know about the Woodcraft version. I am sure they would guarantee it so you are not satisfied, they should take it back.
I know you did not ask, but buy a Starrett you will not regret it.

[Rick Gooden]

I had one of the Woodcraft combination squares for about a day and fortunately they took it back and I'm sure you will also be returning it if you decided to pick one up. No slam on Woodcraft as all of my dealings with them have been positive.

[Tom Esh]

Woodcraft has one for $25 that looks decent but I don't have any experience with it http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3064
Thanks!

Stay away from that one. I picked up one of those sets on sale once. I never got around to checking the accuracy because the mechanical quality was so bad as to make it unusable. I suspect this one would be a lot better: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=434
however I didn't try it. By that time I'd had it with wasting my time and $ with the cheapies. Finally got a Starret which I would have been money ahead to do in the first place. FWIW I'm not of the club that expects a combo to to serve as a machinist square - that's asking a bit much IMO. I just need it to be good enough to do layout work without surprises, mechanically sound, and have readable uncluttered scales.

[Jack Camillo]

i bought some rockler (chinese I think) p.o.c. once, AFTER I had a starrett. I'm still thinking about how to smash the rockler.

[Steve Clardy]

i bought some rockler (chinese I think) p.o.c. once, AFTER I had a starrett. I'm still thinking about how to smash the rockler.


Sledge Hammer. :D

[David Tiell]

If you do a search on the bay, you can find plenty of Starrett combos for as little as $60.

[Jeff Bratt]

The cheap one looks just like a set I unfortunately purchased. The rule was crooked, the 45° angle was off, and the "foot" of the protractor attachment was bowed. Plus all the heads were aluminum. It's not worth it... get a better set.

[Bruce Page]

Michael, “Accurate, yet reasonably priced” don’t always go together. If it were easy to produce a cheap and accurate combo square everyone would be making them.
As David suggested, look at eBay. Starrett, Brown & Sharp, Mitutoyo, Fowler, Lufkin, Scherr-Tumico all made/make excellent combo sets.

You can find some great deals on eBay but you can also buy somebody’s dropped or damaged item and not know it. For that reason, I like to buy these types of tools new.

[Phil Thien]

I already had a Starrett 12" when I decided I wanted a 6". I purchased a knock-off on eBay for $15, including shipping. Had a hardened head and rule. It was a little off when I received it, but it was easy to find tune it with a little diamond file. I check it against the Starrett from time to time and it hasn't varied from my original adjustments.

[Simon Dupay]

Theres other combo-sq. other then Starrett?:D

[Peter Quinn]

Knock off's, kinda of accurate, not to bad, almost good enough, good enough for me, reasonably priced yet accurate...almost. These are not the way I like to describe a combo square for fine wood working. I checked out a GROZ combi square at wood craft, and it may have come together at 90 degrees, but the mechanism was a bear to use and adjust, and the numbers were hard to read in the wrong light.

I suggest you get a starrett, treat it well and it will reciprocate. I use mine so much I cant imagine wood working with out it.Iit is one spendy tool i don't regret even for a second. If you find some cheap knock off that comes even vaguely close, let me know. I would love to have a back up.

[Dave Verstraete]

I purchased a Starrett combo square set when I was a 1st year apprentice as a diemaker in 1971. It is still accurate and not worn out. The 12" rule was replaced last year because my eyesight isn't what it used to be and the numbers were getting smaller. I use this square every time I am in my woodshop. I wouldn't be without it.

[Mike Cutler]

Michael

What specifically let you down with your current combination square? Almost all combination squares are "tunable", and even a Starrett can require some tuning.
If you remove the machine rule from the square and sight along the slot that the rule rides in. From the 45 degree angle you will notice that there is a slight ridge in the bottom of the groove. This ridge adjusts the angle of that machine rule to the square.

Gently, and I mean ever so gently, use a jewlers file and file that ridge, from the back, in the opposite direction of the error to bring the square into true.
Use a $5.00 Staedler drafting triangle from a Staples as a reference. It's not as hard, or arcane as it sounds.

Having said all that, Bruce is right. There is a reason that quality measuring tools, like Starrett, cost so much. they are much less "tools", and more so "instruments".

[John Schreiber]

One of the WW mags did a test on the combo squares. They felt the Stanley contractor model was not too bad for the price. http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-46-123-12-Inch-Contractor-Combination/dp/B00002X2HE
I've had a Stanley like that one for years. I did adjust it with a narrow file when I got it, and it's been good for me. I've never used a Starrett, so maybe I don't know what good really means.

[Tim Malyszko]

I too purchased the combo square at Woodcraft and also returned it after a day - it's really poorly made.

In all honesty, I've been using a $15 combo square from Lowe's for a number of years and it's been great and extremely accurate for my purposes. I can't remember the brand, but it's been one of the few good measuring tools I've purchased at the BORGs.

[Jim Becker]

If you do a search on the bay, you can find plenty of Starrett combos for as little as $60.

That's about what I paid for my Starrett from a Re-Tool store a few years ago. And I agree that ultimately, this is the best way to go. The lower end products have many shortcomings, both in accuracy and in readability of the scale.

[John Eaton]

I have several old Stanleys but end up using my cheap Empires the most - stainless steel rule doesn't rust. Find it on Amazon or, believe it or not my local HF stocks them. The 18" rule gets lousy reviews on Amazon, but mine is fine (as is the 12" I also own). If you decide to purchase any from the store do the perpendicular test before purchase (place on edge, draw a line, flip and see if the line matches) - if that's off everything else will also be off.

As a side note, I was in HF last week and they had this giant aluminum caliper which I coudn't resist buying - since then, I've been looking for things to use it on and it's actually come in rather handy.

-- John

[Clifford Mescher]

Why would anybody stock their shop with expensive woodworking tools and then go cheap on a square that I consider as the number one tool for checking your work and other tools? Clifford

[Dave Tinley]

Just a question about combo squares, and I know it may seem dumb to some.
But why dont they make a combo square that you can set the edge on zero?

I have mine set on the 1 inch mark but there have been times when I have laid stuff out, forgot about the one inch difference and cut a board too short,
:mad:

And BTW, I have a Starrett tape measure that is 1/16 off from all my other stuff, could that mean my other measuring tools are really off and the Starrett is correct :D:D:p

[Howard Acheson]

As already said, FWW found the Stanley 46-123 to be as accurate, legible and overall as good as the high priced Starrett's. At under $15 it's hard to go wrong.

I've had one for maybe five years not and just apply a coat of wax every so often.

Here is some other info that is relevent and may be of interest.

No matter how much you spend for a device, you still don't know if it is square. I ran a large tool and die shop and we purchased a number of Brown & Sharp and Starrett devices and some of them were not "square". We had "standards" that our quality department periodically had validated by an outside service that we then used to verify the worker's tools.

One day, one of our designers brought in two plastic drawing triangles he had purchased at a local art supply store. He had them compared to our standards and they were as accurate as the tools could measure. The triangle cost a couple of dollars each. They would certainly serve very well as the "standard" in any woodworking shop to validate and/or adjust other devices.

An excellent way to validate the accuracy of the plastic squares is to use two squares on a flat surface. Get a $10-12 plastic 30-60-90 drafting square. To prove it's exactly 90°, take two to a glass counter, put the shorter legs on the counter and face the longer legs away from each other and butt them together (like a teepee). If the legs exactly butt, you can assume you have two perfect 90° angles. Using one of the plastic squares, do the same thing using your other tools. Any that mismatch, means that the tool is not square. You can also take the plastic square with you whenever you go to purchase another tool. Keep your "standard" somewhere where it doesn't get banged up.

Finally, remember that the wood you are using will expand and contract a couple of thousands from one day to the other. It does't pay to get too uptight.

While we are at it, I also only purchase the cheapest of adjustable squares. If necessary, I would square them with my "standard" drafting triangle and an auger file until they are square across 10". And I own a Bridge City square that isn't that accurate. Stainless steel machinist's squares are only square until you drop them. I have had several over the years and each has found a away to drop to the floor.

The key is to NEVER use your best square or the "standard" drafting triangle for day to day measuring. Use it only as a reference tool to verify and adjust your day to day tools.

[Tom Godley]

Like others have said the Starrett is the way to go.

Although I have picked up some tools on e-bay made by Millers Falls that have been great and really good buys - but it can be hit or miss.

For any kind of fine layout you need some good measuring tools -- and you need them to check other tools.

I have an old Stanley and a couple of old Craftsman that I use all the time and are great for many jobs -- but I am always dropping them :(

Muck of the new stuff is just junk.

[Rob Blaustein]

I have a Starrett but like Howie have also marveled at how accurate the $5-10 plastic drafting squares are (or at least how well they match the Starrett at 45 and 90 deg). BTW, I have clear ones and wish they were tinted, it would make seeing things a bit easier. Your choice of square will also depend on what you want to use the square for--for general ww'ing, even including certain aspects of tool setup, the square I use most often by far is this 4" sliding square (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=44279&cat=1,42936) from LV. Awesome tool.

[Chris Friesen]

Just a question about combo squares, and I know it may seem dumb to some.
But why dont they make a combo square that you can set the edge on zero?


The usual way I use them is to set the edge at my measurement, and then knife a mark at the end of the rule.

[Sean Kinn]

Just curious about what failed with your Empire unit? I have the same one, and for the price it was great. At one point the mechanism would no longer locke the blade securely. I shot an email off to Empire, and they had a new one in the mail on it's way to me that day. Pretty amazing support for a $12 tool bought at a BORG. It's more than accurate enough for woodworking.

[Michael Panis]

I bought some engineering squares for machine setup at Rockler. Since they have Starrett squares, I asked if I could borrow one. I used it to verify the accuracy of the engineering squares. The first set wasn't all that square. The second set was dead on, so I bought it.
Then I bought a used Starrett square :)
---Mike

[jerry nazard]

Stanley 46-123 is very nice for $15. The other hardware store squares are usually not worth bothering with. I agree with most of the other posters that a Starrett at $60 is well worth the price.

[Clifford Mescher]

I purchased a Starrett combo square set when I was a 1st year apprentice as a diemaker in 1971. It is still accurate and not worn out. The 12" rule was replaced last year because my eyesight isn't what it used to be and the numbers were getting smaller. I use this square every time I am in my woodshop. I wouldn't be without it.
I have one I inherited from my father that is very old and still as square today. It sits next to my "new" (1980) Starrett in my tool box drawer.Clifford

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Starrett is the most reasonably priced one going.

There are some things about which the old expression "You get what you pay for" bears out in full.

[Dave Verstraete]

I have one I inherited from my father that is very old and still as square today. It sits next to my "new" (1980) Starrett in my tool box drawer.Clifford

Clifford
I should also mention that I inherited my father's Brown & Sharp square that He purchased during his Tool & Die apprenticeship. It also is still square!

[Stan Smith]

I've had some cheap ones trying to save a buck. Now I have a 12" Starrett and would buy another in a heartbeat if I ever need one. I'm careful with it since I value accurate measurements.

[James White]

Here you go. Take your pick. I have the Enco version and I am quite happy with it. I was pleasantly surpised by the heft and quality. The SPI looks like a good deal as well.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INLMK32?PARTPG=INSRAR2

James

[Dave Lehnert]

About 6 months ago I purchased every size (3) of the Craftsman. I check them with the Wixy box and draw a line, flip over etc..... Found them to be dead accurate. For woodworking anyway. I was surprised and am 100% happy.

[David Tiell]

Sent the OP a pm earlier to let him in on this deal, hope he got one. Anyway, for those of you looking, this one is tough to beat.
Starrett 12" new, w/square head only, on sale at amazon for $54, free shipping. Check the link, then come back and go through the Creek link to amazon to order.

http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-11H-12-4R-Combination-Square-Wrinkle/dp/B0002CSBNO/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1218661528&sr=1-11

Dave

[Lon Schleining]

Like a lot of other comments, I'm a big Starrett fan. Mine has been in daily use for 30 years and is still as accurate as the day I bought it.

The blade is satin chrome so you can always read it and never have to rub the tarnish off of it, it's hardened so it's almost impossible to bend (I've dropped mine from 15-20 feet a couple of times with no damage.)

I recommend the forged head as opposed to the cast iron head. The forged is smoothe, the cast iron has a crinkle finish. If you're spending this kind of money, a couple of bucks is well worth it.

I'm always surprised how reluctant woodworkers are to spend the money for a tool as useful as this one. I simply could not get through a day without my combinaton square. You'll use this tool for the rest of your life, you'll pass it on to generations in the future and they'll all use it for several lifetimes all together.

That's more than you can say for that fancy saw blade you bought for about the same amount of money.

[Ray Newman]

Either the 12" Starrett or the 12" Bridge City.

'Bout 25 years ago, I purchased the 12" Starret & have never looked back. A few years ago, I received the Bridge City as a gift. Both are my shop workhorses. Both are still "dead nuts on" after years of use.

Three years or so ago, I stupidly knocked the Bridge City off the bech while moving some material. I damaged the blade lock & for the princely sum of $5.00 or so, Bridge City reconditioned/repaired it. Starret will do the same.

http://www.bridgecitytools.com/Products/Combination+Squares/CS-12+Combination+Square+(English+Metric)

You may pay a few more dollars up front, but over the span of 25+ years the actuall purchase cost is very little....

[David Tiell]

Either the 12" Starrett or the 12" Bridge City.

'Bout 25 years ago, I purchased the 12" Starret & have never looked back. A few years ago, I received the Bridge City as a gift. Both are my shop workhorses. Both are still "dead nuts on" after years of use.

Three years or so ago, I stupidly knocked the Bridge City off the bech while moving some material. I damaged the blade lock & for the princely sum of $5.00 or so, Bridge City reconditioned/repaired it. Starret will do the same.

http://www.bridgecitytools.com/Products/Combination+Squares/CS-12+Combination+Square+(English+Metric)

You may pay a few more dollars up front, but over the span of 25+ years the actuall purchase cost is very little....

I am a HUGE Bridge City fan, and also own their 12" combo square. Wouldn't let go of it for anything. But when looking for "reasonably priced", Starrett fits the bill far better than Bridge City. Still, it's a beautiful and accurate tool, and as you said, if you want to view the cost over a lifespan, better than buying cheap ones every couple years.

[Kevin Groenke]

I picked up a couple of the Grizzly sets for student's use. For ~$20 they're a very good value, especially considering the inclusion of the centering and protractor heads. These were square out of the box, they would probably operate more smoothly if I knock ed the sharp corners off on a diamond stone.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-pc-Combination-Square-12-/G5726

I have and use new(ish) and old Starretts, Mititoyu (sp), my g-pas nice old Craftsman and an old Millers Falls. All are square and operate smoothly. Which one I use depends on where I am and what it's for. I think I grab ol' grandads most frequently at home. At work it's the newish Starrett.

I was given a Rockler branded one a while back for participating on a thing there. I haven't used it much, but it is square and it looks and feels like a quality piece.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10345

I believe PEC Tools makes/re-brands their squares for a number of vendors (inc Rockler).
http://www.productsengineering.com/tools/onlinecatalog/squares/combosquares.html

-kg

[Bruce Page]

I picked up a couple of the Grizzly sets for student's use. For ~$20 they're a very good value, especially considering the inclusion of the centering and protractor heads. These were square out of the box, they would probably operate more smoothly if I knock ed the sharp corners off on a diamond stone.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-pc-Combination-Square-12-/G5726



-kg
Kevin, Grizzly’s rather proud of their “Titanium Plated Square”, aren’t they. :eek: