PM vs Griz?

[alex penner]

i'm a newby hobbyist with many hundreds if not 1000's of BF of western maple i intend to turn into lumber.

What would the guys with the experience buy, the extreme series 15" Griz planer with the helical cutting head for $1400 or the PM 15S planer with the spiral head for $1800?

My PM 66 TS was made in the US. Is PM still made in the states?

your advice is appreciated

[Dennis Peacock]

Alex,

PM is not made in the U.S. any longer.
If you get a 15" PM planer? Get it with the helical or shelix cutter head. No NOT get it with the standard spiral knife cutter head. The knives won't hold an edge very long.

See this thread of my cutter head change out.... Here's the link. (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=90027)

Also Alex....take a look here (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=78281) to see my other post about the 15S. In short, once you go to a carbide shelix or helical cutter head? You'll be VERY glad you did.

[Lance Norris]

The Grizzly planer is a very well made machine. I have the 1021X which is the earlier version of the 1021X2. I would highly recommend it. I cant see where the PM would be much better, especially when you consider that the PM with the helical head is $2300. I would not buy the Powermatic with the spiral head, the knives are basically straight knives in a twist, so-to-speak.

[Rick Fisher]

The high end Grizzly product is very good stuff. These companies, Grizzly, Powermatic, General etc. are really importers of machinery made by others.

Powermatic and General tend to lean towards importing the better machines from better manufacturers. Grizzly seems to import everything :)

So if you buy a cheap Grizzly tool, you will get just that. If you buy an expensive Grizzly tool, all indications are that your getting the best machinery.

One of the best parts about Grizzly is that the President is very hands on. If you have a problem, he isnt hard to find :) He is pretty well respected for caring about his customers and his name.

The lousy thing about Grizzly is that he still hasnt opened the store in Canada. ..I guess nobody is perfect. :o

[Steve Nouis]

I just bought a PM 209HH with a Byrd shelix head, I can't see any more quality than my friends Griz 454. I'd say your just paying for the paint but by time I got mine it was only $200 difference with a dust collector. The Byrd head is nice, I've been planeing some knotty white oak and red cedar with very little chip out and it's quiet. And not haveing to sharpen will sure be nice. I sure would stay away from the 3 blade spiral cutter head, how do you sharpen them. If you want any planer to feed really good with little snipe get a sheet of uhmw plastic for the bed. I know you can adjust the bottom rollers a little higher to make them feed better but that makes more snipe and transmits every bump right to the cutterhead. Steve

[Rod Sheridan]

The high end Grizzly product is very good stuff. These companies, Grizzly, Powermatic, General etc. are really importers of machinery made by others.

Powermatic and General tend to lean towards importing the better machines from better manufacturers. Grizzly seems to import everything :)



. :o

Hi Rick, General equipment is not imported into North America, it is made in Canada in Drummondville Quebec. All General equipment has a Canadian flag decal on the machinery.

The General T square fence is also made in Canada, and carries a flag decal.

General International Equipment is made in Taiwan, and is imported into North America. It was designed to compete with all the other Taiwanese manufacturers (Delta, PM etc). It obviously does not carry a Canadian flag decal.

Unfortunately General chose to make their Canadian and imported equipment the same colour, which probably causes confusion, not to mention the name similarity.

It's too bad that Delta and Powermatic didn't change the names of their imported equipment, as that seems to cause confusion as well.

Regards, Rod.

[Steve Nouis]

Seems like the present management is using thier hard earned name to sell lower quality products to make money NOW. I wonder how long thier name will be any good, I've sure lost respect for a lot of them. Steve

[Rod Sheridan]

Steve, I agree, it seems many get caught up in a race to the bottom, however that race is fuelled by consumers.

Manufacturers produce what consumers will purchase, and many purchase on price alone. I don't think anyone would equate Grizzly for example with General, Felder etc, yet they have filled a need/price point and seem to have done it well, based upon things I read in this forum.

That doesn't mean that there isn't a market for General, Felder, Hammer and all the other higher end products, as many posts in this forum will support.

Oneida in the USA make a great product, I'm sure there are many others in the US who also make a great product, you just have to pay for it.

Material and fuel costs may help level the field a bit with respect to importation.

Regards, Rod.

[Shawn Walker]

Hi Rick, General equipment is not imported into North America, it is made in Canada in Drummondville Quebec. All General equipment has a Canadian flag decal on the machinery.

The General T square fence is also made in Canada, and carries a flag decal.

General International Equipment is made in Taiwan, and is imported into North America. It was designed to compete with all the other Taiwanese manufacturers (Delta, PM etc). It obviously does not carry a Canadian flag decal.

Unfortunately General chose to make their Canadian and imported equipment the same colour, which probably causes confusion, not to mention the name similarity.

It's too bad that Delta and Powermatic didn't change the names of their imported equipment, as that seems to cause confusion as well.

Regards, Rod.

I'm sure Rick was refering to GI..... And... Point of fact... Some GI equipment is made in taiwan, and some is made in China.
I think GI'S higher price is the main distinction between them and Grizzly, etc.

[Rick Fisher]

My bad. I was referring to the GI line.

[Dennis Peacock]

I sure would stay away from the 3 blade spiral cutter head, how do you sharpen them. Steve

You can't. The knives have to be "replaced" and not sharpened. They are considered "disposable". When I bought my planer they were $109 street price for 1 set of spiral knives. The never lasted more than about 300 bd ft of planing in good hardwood. I sharpened mine once on my Tormek (with the planer/jointer knife jig) and put a fresh edge on them. Done pretty well with it, but talk about time consuming.!!! :eek:


3 set of knives later? I've moved on to a real cutterhead with carbide cutters. :)

[alex penner]

I ended up with a used PM 15S for $1000. Upgrading to a Shelix head will cost an addtional $800 with a grand total around just under 1900 including fuel to pick it. It was in excellent shape but could use new knives. I hear sunhill has the best proces for the spiral knife. Any info on where to purcahse the knives would be apprecited.

I'm going to try the spiral knives first before upgrading.

Grizzly won't ship to Canada so i have to pay the Wa state sales tax as well as the canadian taxes. The grizzly would have cost me ~ $1700 fuel included.

Sad how we now have to include fuel costs in these types of decisions.

The seller lives near Seattle and has a brand new PM66 TS and PM shaper both 5 hp, for sale for $2200 each.

The good times are just beginning

[Peter Quinn]

I ended up with a used PM 15S for $1000. Upgrading to a Shelix head will cost an addtional $800 with a grand total around just under 1900 including fuel to pick it. It was in excellent shape but could use new knives. I hear sunhill has the best proces for the spiral knife. Any info on where to purcahse the knives would be apprecited.

I'm going to try the spiral knives first before upgrading.

Grizzly won't ship to Canada so i have to pay the Wa state sales tax as well as the canadian taxes. The grizzly would have cost me ~ $1700 fuel included.

Sad how we now have to include fuel costs in these types of decisions.

The seller lives near Seattle and has a brand new PM66 TS and PM shaper both 5 hp, for sale for $2200 each.

The good times are just beginning

Unless that seller is offering a warranty than neither tool is actually brand new, but actually previously owned, never run, and those prices are a tad high without warranty IME.

Good score on the planer. I haven't any experience with the WMH spiral knives, but I use a 24" Casadei planer with the flexible spiral knives at work. When fresh they are a sight to behold. They leave the best finish I have seen period, and that includes shelix heads. However, that glory is typically short lived as they don't stay fresh very long, the slightest spec of debris on the lumber starts the downward spiral until they produce lumber that looks as if it has been scraped with a butter knife rather than planed. And those knives aren't cheap. We usually run them long after we should and just leave everything .040" over then pass it all through the wide belt sander, which may not be an option for you. Don't be surprised if you start off liking that head and end up hating it over time.

By all means inspect your lumber with a fine tooth comb and a wire brush. It doesn't take much to achieve the butter knife effect!:D