Direct Metal Marking

[Brian Robison]

I saw that Universal advertises it can mark directly on metal using a H....lens, Epilog has the fiber laser and Trotec has a combo laser. What are the pro's and cons to these systems?

[Bryan Cowan]

I can only speak for Epilog's FiberMark because we use it every day, but it is simply amazing.

We mark on aluminum (bare and anodized), brass, steel, and stainless steel. Brass is the best material to work with because we can really speed the machine up and still produce very dark marks. Stainless steel requires us to slow down the machine, but still produces very dark marks.

No need for surface treating any metal with CerMark or the like. I just wish it could do more (similar to a CO2 system).

[Brian Robison]

Thanks Bryan, that's why I'm wondering about the CO2 marking one Universal is offering. I'd need the flexibility.

[Mike Null]

Brian

I can mark stainless with a standard 2" lens with my 45 watt Trotec. It's not fast but the mark is pretty good. It can be rastered or vectored.

Non magnetic stainless does not mark well with a co2 laser.

[Bryan Cowan]

Thanks Bryan, that's why I'm wondering about the CO2 marking one Universal is offering. I'd need the flexibility.

I'm not quite sure how a lens would be able to manipulate the laser into directly marking on metal. It's the wavelength of the laser that determines what it can/cannot mark on (or so I'm led to believe, correct me if I'm wrong). I'd like to learn more about that if that is infact true.

[Peck Sidara]

Brian,

For true metal marking one should use a Fiber/YAG/YV04 wavelength (approx. 1062nm) laser. This wavelength of light is ideal for all metals as well as certain engineered plastics. Unlike the C02 (10,600nm), the Fiber won't typically mark on the same materials a C02 would.

Using ANY mid to high power C02 (45-120W) system with the proper optics (smaller focal length, collimated), you can anneal (changing the surface color to blues/purples/blacks) steel/stainless. Con here is slow speed and no depth.

Some companies offer a combo laser as you have stated; Pro is that its an all in one machine for all your marking & cutting needs. Con is cost, for the price of one of these lasers, you could purchase a Fiber/YAG/YV04 and a C02, have both working simultaneously and not be limited to using one source or another at any given time.

HTH,

[Mike Null]

Brian

Here is a Zippo letter opener I was messing around with. The photo isn't good of my name but it looks pretty good.

both were rastered.

[Bryan Cowan]

Brian

Here is a Zippo letter opener I was messing around with. The photo isn't good of my name but it looks pretty good.

both were rastered.

Any type of coating prior to marking?

[Mike Null]

No, this is just bare metal.

As Peck says, it's slow but you can get paid for it as long as you're not interested in high volume jobs.

[Charlie Bice]

I assume that's the coloring from a spot anneal type of process?

If you rub it with 0000 steel wool does it rub off?

charlie

[Bill Cunningham]

I am doing a little testing on a job I sort of inherited from Vicky Orsini another member here who is local to me, and apparently closing her business, so she sent this customer to me.. These are a pewter dog tag (woof dog tag, not military dog tag) They have been clear coated by the manuf. so before I could cermark them, I had to either burn or sandblast the coating off the area to be marked. But, I did discover that if I run 100% power, at 2% speed @ 600 dpi, the text goes pure black on the coated pewter without cermark, and without removing the coating. However, If I don't put a clear coat on them afterwards, I can rub off the text.. Once the clear coat is nice and dry.. The mark seems pretty rugged... So far!! Too bad about losing a creeker though.. If your lurking and reading this Vicky Thank you for the referral, I have not shown these to the customer yet, but she can choose between cermark and 'brute force marking' from the samples..

[Brian Robison]

Bill,
What's the wattage of your laser?

[Scott Shepherd]

The High Density Optics package is less than a $3000 option that can be added to any of the new ULS systems. Hardly the cost of buying two laser systems.

[Bill Cunningham]

Bill,
What's the wattage of your laser?

Well Thats a good question!! When I bought it, it was supposed to be a 35 watt. I replaced the tube last month, and now the laser has 'at least' 30-40% more power than it ever had, even when new!.. I'm wondering if they shipped me a 45 watt tube as a replacement, or I just got a exceptional tube.. For example, engraving rubber stamp polymer used to be done at 100% power, and 8% speed, I now have to speed up the machine to 15%, and it cuts as deep as it did at 8% when the machine was new..

[Rodne Gold]

AFAIK , most laser tube mnfgrs will spec a tube at the "minimum" wattage , ie a 25 W tube will deliver AT LEAST 25 w.
You can be lucky and get an overpowered tube , some of our 30w machines deliver at least 38w+ on the table.
Oddly enough , we find that a 25 Synrad tube delivers way more "apparent power" than a 30 Coherent.....The watt meter says it doesnt , but our settings enable faster and deeper cuts. I think it has a lot to do with beam quality and spot size as the wattage a tube puts out is spread over an area , 25 watts of power on a spot 2/3rds of the size of another tube would result in a far higher power density. We have a competitor with a 200w laser and our 30 watters cut better , thicker and faster than theirs does on the same material....... Go figure.
We looked at the dual purpose Trotec , but felt that considering it was still a flying optic and not a galvo laser , we could see very little advantage over using cerdec apart from being able to engrave much bigger areas without coatings (galvos are limited to areas)
I can also mark bare metal with a 1.5" lens with the 3 of the 30w lasers I have that have built in collimators , it is way way too slow to be truly useable and the range of materials is sorely limited (only does certain types of stainless)

We also find that by far the biggest market for direct metal marking is the promotional industry (some technical applications as well , but these arent the big jobs) and the promotional industry is a minefield. Non payment is a big issue , fly by nighters as well , but we find that there is NO loyalty in the industry , if the promo co's can get it for 1c cheaper elsewhere , poof they are gone , no matter how good your service or how you have helped them out the doo-doo prior to that. So we have let all the new guys in the laser field fight for their share of that industry and concentrate on real high profit jobs like fabricating point of sale items and so forth.
The one thing we have realised is that to be a do it all to all and sundry is a vERY expensive business strategy , requiring significant investment in specialised tooling for very little return. Yes , you might really "need" that YAG to fully service all the ppl that come to you or enquire about a laser service , but are you really going to make money out of it , cos along with the tool , comes a huge commitment to actually marketing it , even to exisiting customers.

[Bill Cunningham]

Yup agree 100% Rodney.. There is not enough money or flexablity available in putting out the bucks for a machine specifically for marking metal. The fibermark from epilog seems like a nice machine, but the only people I have seen buying it as yet, are industrial users that need it to mark 'their' products and parts, and their not usually interested in doing outside work.. I think I lucked out on this tube replacement, and the tube was the only thing replaced.. Had to do a very minor tweak on the alignment, and replaced one mirror. I was told the tube Epilog sent, was the correct one, matched to their records for the Ser# of machine I have.. These tags I'm marking have a very small area, (.25" x 1") so even at a speed of 2-3% @ 600 dpi for extra overlap and 'burn in', they still go pretty quick if their set up in vertical columns to keep down the head travel..

[Steve Clarkson]

concentrate on real high profit jobs like fabricating point of sale items and so forth.


Rodney, when you say "fabricating point of sale items"......can you give me some idea of specific things you do? I'm still trying to research and identify my niche products. Thanks.

[Mike Null]

Steve

google point of sale displays and you'll get some idea. At least one of our members is in this business. think about all the acrylic items you see when you go into a bank, dept store or grocery.

http://www.displays2go.com/

[Steve Clarkson]

Thanks Mike.....yea, even if fabricating point of sale items is a high profit business...that's definiitely not for me!