face frame widths - built in oven next to pantry

[Roger Jensen]

Hi All,

I am replacing my kitchen cabinets and building two carcasses, one for the built in oven and one for the pantry. They are going to be next to each other and the faces will be even with each other.

My question is how to handle the face frame widths. I am using inset drawers and doors on the cabinets. Should I have a single face frame that covers the front of both cabinets, or should each of them have their own face frame (so make them narrower than normal)? I am planning to have face frames that are 1 3/4 or 2 inches wide. I think it single one would look better, but it would be too bulky to build them with a single face frame and carry them in, so I'd have to screw on the face frame in the kitchen.

Let me know if I should provide more details on my situation.

BTW - any particular books anyone would recommend? I find the book by Bob Lang pretty good, but I'm always interested in other sources.

Thanks,

Roger

[David DeCristoforo]

A "typical" solution is to build one cabinet with a "single width" stile that overhangs the cabinet side. Then build the adjacent cabinet with no stile and the rails "held back" so that the end of the carcase can be "buried" behind the overhanging stile of the other cabinet when the two are butted together. You can use dowels to join or pre-drill pocket screw holes in the rail ends.

[Roger Jensen]

Thanks David.

Just to make sure I understand (assuming the oven is on the left side of the pantry when you are standing in front of it):

1. I build the oven carcase with a two inch faceframe on all four sides (top rail, bottom rail, left stile, right stile).
2. The right stile extends past the side of the cabinet one inch.
2. I build the pantry carcase faceframe with no left stile, and the top and bottom rails ending one inch from the left edge of the pantry carcase.
4. After I put the pantry and oven carcases together I attach the top and bottom rails of the pantry to the right stile of the oven carcase.

Please let me know if I'm missing something.

Thanks again,

Roger

[James Hart]

It's pretty late, I hope I'm reading everything right. The approach David suggested works as described only if the 2 cabinets are the same height, correct?
is that the case?

[Roger Jensen]

Yes, they are both floor to ceiling units (as close as can be so that I can tilt them up, of course).

I had not previously seen this technique of connecting a rail into another cabinet's stile during final assembly.


Thanks,

Roger

[Jim Becker]

Roger, the last sets of cabinets I built kept the carcasses separate from the face frames. I installed the former first and then applied the face frames for a more continuous look. I also use a design technique whereas the carcasses are spaced so that the walls are flush with the face frame openings, allowing me to use hinges designed for Euro boxes, rather than the special face frame versions. The additional benefit is that you don't need to use spacers for drawer slides and there is no "dead" space behind the face frames to collect debris as the cabinet is used.

[Roger Jensen]

Thanks Jim.

So if you used 1 3/4" faceframes you had 1/4" spacers between the cabinets?

How did you fastent the faceframes to the cabinets ones you got them in, pocket screws from the inside of the cabinet?

I have watched Norm's kitchen cabinet series and he glues the faceframes on while they are in the shop, and then assembles them with face frames on them. BTW - I liked his series last year, but he could have thrown in another episodes on designing faceframe overhang and installing the boxes. Everyone seems to gloss over the details on faceframe design.

Since I'm using prefinished pw for the cabinets, using your technique would allow me to paint the faceframes before attaching to the cabinets. I am going to try milk paint and then spray on a water based finish to protect it.

Thanks!

Roger

[Jim Becker]

Roger, I've used a number of different methods for attaching the face frames including pocket screws. Most recently, I used a few biscuits for vertical alignment and then some 23 gage pins to hold things in place while the glue dries. The pins are virtually invisible and if the tiny, tiny holes do bother, a quick hit with a colored filler pencil takes care of them.