$5000 to spend on machinery.....what would YOU do?? [Archive]

Matt Sollars

08-05-2008, 10:30 PM

i see what you are all saying...about opinions varying, etc.

one of the things i failed to mention....

i'm looking for things that can be portable. i.e. rolled on a cement floor.

currently the shop would be in the basement and my main interests lie in furniture. upcoming cribs, tables, chairs, tv stands, beds, etc.

i'll eventually have some dedicated space (a workshop building)...but for now i'm limited to about a 20ft x 30ft area of the basement.

so the consensus is the following...
Table Saw
Band Saw
Joiner
Planer
Router Table
Dust Collection
Drill Press

honestly...the only thing i've looked at is the table saw. i really like what people have to say about the Grizzly 1023 line.
have yet to look at the other tools, specific brands or otherwise. i guess i've been talked into the table saw as being the first big deal in the shop. though i'll be purchasing a few machines at once...i feel like for furniture...the table saw can do most of what i'm looking for.

any additional thoughts?? also.....please.....give some specifics...they're only opinions....i understand that, but i'm asking for them.

keeping the budget in mind....what specific machines, brand and model, would YOU suggest. i really appreciate it.

thanks
matt

Jamie Buxton

08-05-2008, 10:32 PM

Rather than buying tools, and then seeing what you can build with them, I'd do it the other way around. Ask yourself what you want to make, and acquire tools which help you make that.

One other bit of advice is to buy used. In my area, I fairly regularly see good solid machines (eg 10-year-old Unisaw) for half the new price. It takes some patience, but you save a bunch of money.

Peter Quadarella

08-05-2008, 10:43 PM

Clancy Courtney

08-05-2008, 10:58 PM

Buy a Powermatic 3520B lathe. Jump in head first!
Great opportunity, listen to other advice about what kind of projects you are interested in.

Matt Sollars

08-06-2008, 2:10 AM

i'll have to pass on the lathe. maybe a lathe for the shop though. if i can find a cheap/good one.

Rob Russell

08-06-2008, 6:19 AM

For $5K, with some careful shopping, you could get a good used european combination machine like a Felder or Minimax.

Rich Engelhardt

08-06-2008, 6:45 AM

Hello,
$5K goes quick. Real quick.
A quality 10" blade for a table saw is going to set you back ~ $100.00 alone. Router bits, at anywhere for $25.00 to $200.00 a pop, chew up a lot of money also. I won't even begin to delve into the incidentals like fasteners & assorted hardware (hinges & knobs).

My wife put the brakes on tool buying this past May & limited me to only the barest of necessities. I still managed to go through nearly $700.00 between May and now. Honestly - I really did keep it down to the most basic of the basic.

Right off the bat/out of the gate, IMHO and also IMHExperience the most basic decisions you need to make:
- Are you going to run a 120V shop or a 220V shop?
- Spray apply finishes or not?
- How much are you going employ the use of sheet goods?
- What joint or joints to you plan on using for your projects?
- It's in a basement, will sound be a factor? If you have the pitter patter of little feet in the future, will that change?

Tim Thomas

08-06-2008, 6:56 AM

Matt, I was in your position about a year ago. About the same amount of budget and the same desire to be able to move the tools around. I have been happy with my setup and tools, so I'll just list what I have...

Tablesaw - Shop Fox W1726 (2 hp, contractor style, left tilt)
Jointer - Ridgid 6 inch jointer (I got this used from a yard sale and cleaned it)
Planer - Ridgid 13 inch thickness planer
Drill Press - Delta 17-950L
Dust Collector - Jet DC-1100CK
Air Filter - Jet AFS 1000B

With just that list of tools you can make an awful lot of stuff. If you bought all of these tools new it would run to only about half of your budget. BUT, you still have to buy a lot of other stuff. I also have a Bosch router kit that cost me about $200 as well as various drills, hand sanders, router bits, drill bits, saw blades, a miter saw, miter saw stand, dust collection hose, hose clamps, blast gates, hose fittings and a huge pile of clamps. Not to mention a healthy heap of non-powered hand tools that you need to adjust and set up all of your power tools. And then you have your consumables like glue, sandpaper, stains, various chemicals, rags, paintbrushes, etc. Then you are going to want to probably buy or make shelving/storage and create work tables. And I also bought mobile bases for all of these large tools at about $50 a pop. Setting up a shop takes a lot more tools than just the big ones, and a lot more time than you think. I'm still working on setting up my shop, and I've been at this for well over a year. (Of course, I've been making a few projects along the way too...)

So I guess if I could caution you about how you spend your money I would say this: Don't spend all of your budget on just the big power tools, or you will wind up with a shop that is frustrating to work in. A big table saw is a great tool, but at the end of the day all it can do is cut wood. It can't make it smooth, hold it together while glue dries, provide storage, apply stain, or buff out a coat of wax. In the end, if your $5000 budget is a hard target, I would recommend that you spend about half of it to get the big, basic tools and then buy all of the dozens and dozens of "accessories" to get your shop outfitted in proper working condition. If after that you still have enough money left over to buy another large tool or two, go for it.

Enjoy working on your shop, and prepare yourself mentally for the fact that you will probably do a LOT of work to get it set up before you really "make" anything. But I assure you that the journey is worth it. I've just about finished getting my shop set up, and all the hard work is starting to pay off. Have fun. :D

Matthew Voss

08-06-2008, 8:18 AM

Rather than buying tools, and then seeing what you can build with them, I'd do it the other way around. Ask yourself what you want to make, and acquire tools which help you make that.

Sage advice.

Prashun Patel

08-06-2008, 8:42 AM

I bought a Jet Proshop Tsaw which is all the saw and fence I need, but I almost pulled the trigger on the 1023.

In your budget, account for running 220v power to key locations.

I'd also budget for killer accessories. You can spend a good $1500 on stuff like:

good dado stack
Freud Fusion tsaw blade (or a good ripping, and cross cutting blade)
Freud router bit set
Kreg Miter gauge
Kreg Master Pockethole kit
4x24" Bessey K clamps
4x50" Bessey K clamps
Toggle clamps and t tracks and UHMW strips for jigs.
Mast-R-Router lift insert (Rockler)
Shark guard
GRRRipper push block or board buddies holddowns.

Put all yr stuff on mobile bases. You might be able to save some $$ by making your own. Wood Magazine had good plans for mobile bases: http://www.binkyswoodworking.com/TblSawCab.html

Yr gonna need good dust collection in a basement shop. You might get a cyclone.

The tablesaw is one thing it's possible to spend 'too much' on (IMHO). The features of the more expensive saws are fantastic, but can be overkill and can be overcome on 'smaller' saws with good jigs and cheap after-market upgrades and a good blade. The ONLY reason to buy a bigger saw IMHO is if you're routinely cutting thick large stock and need that power. But saw north of 1.5hp will be good for 90% of the ops you'll do as a hobbyist (I had a 1hp saw that served extremely well).

You might also like a good compound miter saw. I'd get the Makita 10" sliding compound miter saw and build a good stand for it. For crosscutting long stock and trim, there's no beating a good chop saw.

I also highly recommend the Bosch 1617EVS plunge/fixed router combo with a good table.

The Grizzly G0555 bandsaw is probably the best value 14" bandsaw out there, but if you can spend more, you might get the G0555x or jump to a 17".

Oh yeah, get 2 Makita LiIon Compact 18v cordless drills. I'd buy a new set and then get a 2nd drill body on ebay.

glenn bradley

08-06-2008, 8:45 AM

I would read this along with all the good advice here: http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011153068.pdf

Jim Becker

08-06-2008, 9:30 AM

The best advise given so far is to consider what you want to do. It's not just about power tools, either...there are a lot of other things to consider.

The "big three", IMHO, are the TS, Jointer and Planer...essential power tools in my book for machining lumber from rough to project components. Any other stationary power tools are more task specific and if your initial projects don't require them, you might consider putting more of the money toward hand tools, both human and electrically powered as well as things like clamps, work surfaces, tooling, etc.

And dust collection needs to be a priority.

Ed Sallee

08-06-2008, 9:33 AM

I would take a big chunk of that and get some good quality wood stock. Can never have enough!

Mike Shields

08-06-2008, 10:20 AM

What Jamie said. Seriously, if I were you, I would pick a project and then buy the tools I needed to make it. You can more thoroughly research your purchases, and take more time learning each machine.

If I were to start from scratch again, as you are, I would definately heed this advice from Peter.

I've wasted ALOT of money on un-necessaries. And had I waited to buy some tools, I would have had a acquired more funds to spend (AND time to research), and bought better tools.

Lots of regrets on bad (un-timely) tool purchases, and now I have to live with those decisions.

Wayne Cannon

08-06-2008, 10:57 AM

I agree with Peter. Don't make the same mistake I (and apparently many others) made starting out:

Have an overall plan for what you want to do, based on the kinds of things you expect to make.
Don't forget key hand tools and accessories in the process -- chisels, plane, saw, rolling bases, table-saw outfeed table, workbench, sharpening kit, storage, lighting, etc.
Purchase your tools only as you need them.

Your desires will change, technology changes, your learn more, your skills increase, etc. It's easy to wind up with tools that sounded good when you first equipped your shop, and for which you later wish you had waited and purchased something different that better meets you needs.
You quickly learn that router bits can quickly add up to more than a router, that turning tools can easily add up to more than a lathe, and that adding jigs for your existing tools is often more useful than a new tool. You may find it desirable to spend a bit more on tools that form the base for a more extensive setup -- e.g., a nice router table -- whose cost will fade next to the bits and jigs you use with it.

If you decide you want a table saw, a good fence is probably the most valuable feature, whether you get a contractor saw or a cabinet saw. I found that a cabinet saw with a good fence was only slightly more expensive than adding a good fence to a contractor saw. Today, many manufacturers have great "hybrid" saws.
A table saw is important if you are working with sheet goods, but many argue that a bandsaw and jointer are great without a table saw for working solid woods for "furniture", as opposed to "cabinet work".

Larry James

08-06-2008, 10:58 AM

What Jamie said. Seriously, if I were you, I would pick a project and then buy the tools I needed to make it. You can more thoroughly research your purchases, and take more time learning each machine.

You may even find yourself with a slightly unorthodox shop - for example you could find that based on your work some type of sander would be more helpful than a jointer, or maybe you make all bandsaw boxes and don't need a table saw - just some examples. Or worse yet, you end up with a lathe :eek:

If I were to start from scratch again, as you are, I would definately heed this advice from Peter.

I've wasted ALOT of money on un-necessaries. And had I waited to buy some tools, I would have had a acquired more funds to spend (AND time to research), and bought better tools.

Lots of regrets on bad (un-timely) tool purchases, and now I have to live with those decisions.

Drool on WW catalogs at first, and then take Peter and Mike's advise.

Matt Hutchinson

08-06-2008, 11:04 AM

With a 20' x 30' area, I don't think you really need to worry about rolling things. That's assuming you can dedicate it to the workshop only.

I am in the 'buy used' camp. I have been able to but together a shop of high quality tools, better than what I could afford new. I have gotten a Unisaw, 8" Delta jointer, 15" Makita planer, 14" Delta bandsaw, and huge industrial Rockwell radial arm saw for only $1710. After doing minor repairs, purchasing top quality blades, and getting a phase converter I will be spending about $3000 total. That's a nicely equipped shop with several commercial/industrial quality tools. I couldn't even get a new tablesaw and jointer of the same quality for $3000!!

If you could manage something similar, you would have a chunk of change left over for a DC, accessories, lumber, and any other tool that you didn't think you would need.

Hutch

Matt Day

08-06-2008, 11:33 AM

First off I would suggest buying used if you can, you can save a bundle. I would only spend about half to 2/3 of your budget on large tools, and the rest you'll use up buying all the smaller accessories other have mentioned, along with wood of course!

New:
Table saw: $1000
8" Jointer: $800
12.5" planer: $400
14" Bandsaw: $600
Drill Press: $400
Dust Collector: $300
Plunge/Fixed Base Router: $175

Total $3675

Used you sould be able to get all that for about $2500.

Starting from almost scratch, there are sooooo many general accessories to buy as well as project specific things that will add up faster than you can imagine. I'd like to think I'm slowing down a bit, but I still order a few hundred dollars worth of accesories/tools each month.

You'll need chisels, ROS, sandpaper (not the junk you find at the BORG), layout tools, featherboards, a shopvac, dust collection fittings, jig parts, maybe a tenon jig for the TS, a real miter gauge (not the piece of junk that comes with the TS), blades, bits

And maybe you'll want a grinder (and a sharpening jig), or a benchtop mortiser, a veneer press, and a compressor for the press, spray equipment, etc. These are far from necessities, but you see where I'm going.

Tool that are project specific are the way to go. I was given a Table Saw and I bought a router and a few hand tools for my first project, and now I've got pretty much a full shop (I don't know how many thousands of dollars later!).

Remember to look used on your regional Craigslist pages, your local want ads, and here on SMC and other online places with classifieds.

Good luck, and have fun!

jerry nazard

08-06-2008, 12:50 PM

I was in a similar situation about 20 years ago setting up a new commercial shop. I decided on Powermatic for my major stationary tools and bought them all from the same dealer at the same time. Great price and service.

If I was in a similar situation, and did not need all the tools at one time, I would shop for used commercial grade machines.

You were very smart and asked for advice and feedback on this forum. Now you just need to assimilate the information and buy, buy, buy!

Best of luck!

-Jerry

jim oakes

08-06-2008, 1:37 PM

I hate to put a damper on your plans. I just built a house full of very modern custom furniture and cabinets. I built custom because I had the shop and experience. It was the only way to get what we wanted(much of it is built in).

I would recommend that you price the materials to build cribs, tables, chairs, tv stands and beds you need first. Include hardware and finishes. Then go to a few furniture stores to get ideas and prices. Wood chairs are time consuming to build and CHEAP to buy.

In many cases you can buy good furniture for what the materials would cost you, not including your labor or the costs to equip (and run) a small shop!

mike wacker

08-06-2008, 3:08 PM

Keep an open mind. Make a list of tools you'd like to have. Make a loose budget for each one. Then be patient. Lurk on Craigslist and similar sites. You have to be patient (did I say that already?). You're in the cat-bird seat if you have the cash in hand. I wouldn't get hyped up on any particular brand. Who cares if you have a PM table saw, a Delta Jointer, a Jet thickness palner, etc. Look at price and quality and buy the best older iron you can find.

So far I've got the $3000 table saw for $700 (PM66) the $2200 jointer for $600 (DJ20). If I had $5000 cash in my hand I wouldn't have missed as many similar deals as I have. Both these machines needed wax to be fully functional. The PM66 has had another $150 thrown at it. Mobile base, table between the 52 in rails, New Fence tube, and Factory Blade guard. I got the Blade gard from fellow (very cool) creeker for next to nothing, the rest I got at Woodcraft and Rockler on closeouts/sales.

Matt Benton

08-06-2008, 3:39 PM

Especially for a basement shop, buy more dust collection than you need, then get everything else used...

Eric DeSilva

08-06-2008, 5:03 PM

In many cases you can buy good furniture for what the materials would cost you, not including your labor or the costs to equip (and run) a small shop!

My first hall table probably cost me $10K by that math. It's the joy of building it that is important.

Then again, if I realized at the start it was going to cost me $10K, I prolly woulda scrapped the whole idea and just gone skiing for a month in Vail.

Bill Wyko

08-06-2008, 5:05 PM

More Festool please.;)

Bob Slater

08-06-2008, 5:12 PM

I'd be patient and hunt for high quality used North American tools. They will hold their value if you want to resell them, they are nice to use and look at, and for the most part made better than today's stuff. The $5000 should go a long way if you like to hunt for bargains.

Chuck Tringo

08-06-2008, 5:17 PM

I agree that in a basement shop, dust collection needs to be factored in; not just in the dust collector, but also your table saw; I saw a few recommendations for contractor saw; I would say definitely not. At least spring for a hybrid to improve your dust collection. Also an ambient Air Cleaner. If you read Bill Pentz's website you'll gain a whole new appreciation for dust collection, especially if your like me and have a family member with asthma who may visit your shop ever. It can still be done reasonably tho. I would also look at Grizzly or Jets 12 inch Jointer planer combos. For about 2k you get 2 great machines in one, a wider jointer than you'll ever need and a small footprint; add about 100 for a good heavy duty mobile base. You can get the powermatic 14 inch bandsaw on Amazon now for under 1k and skip all the extras you'll likely buy in the future (quick release, carter guides, riser block, etc). Shop for a sale and you can get a good hybrid for $600 or so (I got my proshop delivered in the door for 490ish brand new) $800 is quite reasonable tho. That would still leave $1200 for dust collection and a drill press. My 2 cents.

Art Mulder

08-06-2008, 5:40 PM

Matt I'm not at all clear on your level of experience, or how "sure" you are about ww'ing as a hobby.

...

Personally, I'd really like to get myself a Sawstop TS. If that isn't possible, then I would look for a TS that has a real riving knife. (ie: it goes up and down with the blade, and tilts with it as well -- a real riving knife, not just a curved splitter.)

If I was starting fresh with a bare basement, I'd also like to put some money into a wooden floor - lay down a bunch of dricore tiles, or something similar. Some soundproofing for the ceiling as well, perhaps.

Oh yeah, and get a decent DC system -- at minimum a 2HP unit with upgraded filter bags.

...art

Chris Kennedy

08-06-2008, 6:11 PM

I've been near woodworking for a long time and thoroughly enjoy it myself.
I am a new homeowner...with a large basement. I'm also going to be selling a motorcycle soon....approx. value: $5000.00.

So, without sounding abrasive, avoiding all of the 'life lesson' type responses...

what would you spend the money on?
i'm looking for specifics....

brand and model of table saw......brand and model of jointer.....brand and model of planer.....etc.

i have quite a few of the necessary hand tools....clamps....portables (circ. saw, jigsaw, etc.

so....set up a basement shop with $5000 budget.

thanks for the suggestions ahead of time guys.

matt sollars

Well, since you asked . . .

A Craftsman 22124 hybrid or the Steel City equivalent, upgraded with a JessEm miter gauge. If you are going to run 220, look a cabinet saws (I couldn't run 220, so I went the hybrid route -- haven't looked back).

A Lee Valley low angle jack plane and a Lee Valley medium shoulder plane. If you are so inclined, either a no. 4 smoother, either LV or Lie-Nielsen. I don't think you can go wrong (I have the LN and love it, but all my other planes are LV and they are wonderful). Whether you go the total power route or start down the neanderthal path, these planes will be incredibly useful.

A good router and router table. I have the PC 890 dual base system with a Rockler table. It is a nice balance of power against cost, and the table is very good value. Spend some money on a good set of bits.

Buy some good cabinet clamps -- either Bessey K-bodies or the JET equivalents (I prefer the JET's, but you cannot go wrong with the Besseys).

Get Rockler, Woodcraft, and Lee Valley catalogues and look through for things that look cool to you and get some. I would recommend Clamp-It squares, some good marking tools (marking knife, a good square), as well as sharpening equipment if you think you are likely to go into the hand tool arena.

That should leave a fair amount of your initial money in tact. At that point, start making stuff and see what you want or need.

I am going to go against some of the advice here, not because I think it is bad advice, but because I don't think it is the way to start, for a non-obvious reason. Don't spend your initial money on things that you will not have issues spending money on later. Deciding to spend 800 or 3000 on a saw is a decision to make, and you can decide whether to be practical or splurge. On the other hand, you will quickly realize that spending some money on dust collection is necessary, and you will find/save for it. Dropping 200 or 300 on a hand plane or 1000 or 3000 on a table saw . . . much harder to sell yourself (and the LOYL :D) on.

If this 5000 is your only investment and you are going to completely outfit your shop, you have a lot of work and arithmetic to do. If this is your getting started money, and you are going to invest a little from time to time as your hobby grows, go for those things that the capital outlay would cause you to balk later.

Cheers,

Chris

eric auer

08-06-2008, 6:53 PM

Id go on vacation to the caribbean for a few weeks, I love woodworking but everyone needs a week of beaches and booze every now and then. :)

Eric

Chuck Tringo

08-06-2008, 8:14 PM

Id go on vacation to the caribbean for a few weeks, I love woodworking but everyone needs a week of beaches and booze every now and then. :)

Eric

thats the best idea Ive heard yet :p

Matt Sollars

08-06-2008, 8:33 PM

guys, i appreciate all of the comments.

i'm just reading and reading....keep the coming.

this is a ''start'' to something that i'll be doing for a long time. a lifelong thing for me.

matt

Prashun Patel

08-06-2008, 9:53 PM

More Festool please.;)

Festool is a great recommendation. For $5000, you can get a great systainer (empty) and you might have enough left over for a hat. :)

Bill Wyko

08-06-2008, 10:16 PM

Festool is a great recommendation. For $5000, you can get a great systainer (empty) and you might have enough left over for a hat. :)
The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten. You get your moneys worth with out a doubt. Trust me.

Brian Penning

08-06-2008, 10:32 PM

I'd get a SawStop for sure. With the amount left over you would still have enough to get a good planer, jointer and some of the other tools you'll need as the projects you do demand.

Ron Bontz

08-06-2008, 11:17 PM

Well the dust collection needs to go hand in hand with the table saw so.
(1) Cabinet saw and dust collector (shop around for a deal)
(2) Air cleaner, for that lung killing fine stuff being sucked up into the rest of your house. A saw dust free house may help keep you out of the dog house you will be building from making all that noise umm music in the basement.
(3) Planer 12" to 15". To get all those boards the same thickness. Each batch of wood from a mill may vary causing you great head aches and a lot of dusty as well as time consuming sanding.
(4) Router table and cabinet with a 3 hp router and router lift. (poor mans shaper) Opens up a whole new world of possibilities and accuracy. Don't buy the cheapy router bits unless you plan to throw them away. Perhaps incorporate it into your cabinet saw. Saves space and you can use the cabinet saw fence for cutting dados. Auxillary fence for edge routing.
(5) Jointer A good cabinet saw fence and straight edge jig goes along way to straighten an edge but the jointer sure makes things nicer.
(6) Drill Press (as money allows). Don't sweat this one.
(7) Band saws are handy but patients and a jig saw go a long way.
Remember all those quality hand tools you'll need don't come cheap. But worth every penny.
And "that's all I have to say about that". For now.:)

Jim Becker

08-07-2008, 9:11 AM

Ron, on your number 5, keep in mind that straightening an edge is a minor duty of the jointer. The real work is getting one face flat so that when you do straighten the edge it will be perfectly perpendicular to the flat face. ;) I'm not saying this specifically to you, but to insure that concept is included in the discussion.

Cliff Rohrabacher

08-07-2008, 1:50 PM

Get yourself a slider.

Dan Lautner

08-07-2008, 4:48 PM

1. General 650 w/ RK $2900

2. Domino $850

3. Makita planer $450 (later add a 15 or 20)

4. 8" Jointer $900 griz or equiv. (later sell and upgrade.)

This is what I have done and I'm very happy so far.

Dan

Jack Camillo

08-07-2008, 6:04 PM

Matt
I haven't read all the posts that you stirred up here, but don't fail to get a few quality handtools. No project can be done without them. For example, you'll need a block plane, and a larger plane, like a number 4 1/2 or 5. Easiest for beginners and experienced alike is a low angle/bevel up plane. Look at Lee Valley/Veritas and Lie Nielson, if you want to get something ready out of the box that you'll never need to upgrade. You'll need some nice chisels as well, and a couple small saws (rip/dovetail, and crosscut) at least. What I'm getting at is set aside probably 700 give or take 1-2 hundred for essential, but nice handtools, read posts/magazines about them and make your selection. Every once and a while a magazine will come out with something along the lines of "essential handtools." Ask the forums here what they think, etc., but again, have a budget set aside if you're looking to put together a work-ready shop in a short amount of time.

Curt Harms

08-07-2008, 6:43 PM

The best choices depend somewhat on the size of your shop. I have the Jet Jointer/Planer and think combo machines are a good choice for non-production shops. As Jim B. alluded to face jointing is the reason for wide jointers. Separate jointers & planers are more convenient and big jointers have longer beds. I think longer jointer beds matter more if jointing long stock-rule of thumb is a jointer will joint stock 1.5 to 2 times bed length. I don't have the need to joint long stock so the 55 1/2" beds are fine for me. Really flat & square stock was a revelation-things suddenly fit SO much nicer:D.I have a Grizzly 1023 with 30" fence on a mobil base and haven't missed the huge table/fence. If you plan on using plywood for cabinetry, take a look at the guided saw systems like E-Z or Festool.

HTH

Curt

Rick Fisher

08-07-2008, 8:28 PM

I would take it slow. $5000.00 is a good chunk of money but can be gone in a flash.

I would buy good used equipment. A used Cabinet Saw is a better buy than a new Contractor or Hybrid. IMO
Buy a good used cabinet saw and a good new Freud blade?

You can pick up a used 14" Band saw, and buy a new Tri-Master Blade?

Take it slow. The USA is in tough shape right now and there are great used deals around.

Remember, they will be used after you buy them either way.

Jack Camillo

08-08-2008, 3:39 AM

you can pick and choose from a list like this, too.

Workshop Inventory
Christopher Schwarz
October 2007

Critical Machinery:
1. 14” band saw, ½ hp motor, cast-iron frame, no riser block
2. 8” jointer, 2 hp motor
3. 15” planer, 3 hp motor
4. 10” table saw, 30” rails, aftermarket sliding crosscut table
5. Hollow-chisel mortiser
6. Two portable dust collection units, one shop vacuum
7. Floor-model drill press

Critical hand-held power tools:
1. 12-volt cordless drill, 3/8” chuck, two speeds
2. 1-1/2 hp fixed-base router, used hand-held and mounted in portable router table
3. DeWalt 621 plunge router
4. 18-gauge brad nailer and small 5-gallon compressor
5. 23-gauge pinner
6. HVLP turbine and spray gun
7. Circular saw with quality carbide blades for cutting plywood
8. Variable-speed jigsaw
9. 10” sliding compound miter saw

Router bits:
1. Beading bit
2. Roundover (three sizes)
3. Pattern bits, a wide variety of diameters
4. Straight bits, spiral bits
5. Chamfer bits (three sizes)
6. Cope-and-stick bits (chamfer-edge profile)
7. Ogee bits (two sizes)

Hand planes:
1. No. 8 jointer plane
2. No. 4 smoothing plane
3. No. 5 jack plane
4. Low-angle block plane
5. 1-1/4” shoulder plane
6. Large router plane
7. Small router plane
8. Record 044 plow plane
9. Moulding planes: 1 pair hollow and rounds
10. Moulding plane, 5/16” beading plane
11. Moving fillister plane
12. Small scraping plane, Stanley 212 size
13. Bevel-up jack plane for shooting
14. Card scrapers, about 10
15. Spokeshaves, flat sole and round; large and small

Saws
1. Dovetail saw, 15 ppi, filed rip
2. Carcase saw, 14 ppi, filed crosscut
3. Tenon saw, 10 ppi, filed fip
4. Handsaw, 7 ppi, filed crosscut
5. Ripsaw, 4 ppi, filed rip
6 Lee Valley Japanese flush-cut saw
7. Modelmaker’s saw
8. Coping saw
9. Jeweler’s saw, equipped with scrollsaw blades
10. Hacksaw
11. Fine Japanese saw, filed crosscut, for detail cuts
12. Two sawbenches
13. 8” dado stack
14. 24-tooth rip blade
15. 40-tooth combination blade

Chisels
1. Bevel-edge chisels: 1/8” to 1” in 1/8” increments
2. Mortise chisels, ¼”, 5/16”, 3/8”
3. Mallet
3. Paring chisel, 2” wide
4. Skew chisels, left and right
5. Set of small-scale carving chisels
6. Corner chisel, 3/8”

Layout tools
1. 6” 4R rule
2. 6” and 12” combination squares
3. 8” try square
4. Miter square
5. Sliding T-bevel
6. 12’ tape
7. Saddle square
8. Dovetail square
9. Tite-Mark marking gauge
10. Blue Spruce marking knife
11. Awls, scratch and bird-cage
12. Two dividers
13. Set of three French curves
14. Compass
15. Protractor and center-finder for combination square
16. 24” aluminum straightedge and 32” wooden straightedge
17. Levels, 18” and 48”
18. 5mm-lead mechanical pencil
19. Dial caliper

Percussive tools
1. 22 oz. wooden mallet
2. 16 oz. hammer
3. Plane-iron hammer
4. Warrington-style hammer
5. Nail pullers, Japanese and Western style
6. Dead-blow mallet

Boring
1. Brace, 8”, 10” and 12”
2. Augers, full set of 13
3. Auger bit file
4. Forstners, ¼” to 1”
5. Brad-points, complete set by 1/64s up to ½”
6. Instybits, pilot and countersink bits, set from No. 6 to No. 10 screws
7. Countersink
8. Set of spade bits

Clamps
1. Two 12” F-style
2. Six 4” F-style
3. Eight 12” parallel jaw
4. Fourteen 26” parallel jaw
5. Four 40” parallel jaw
6. Four handscrews, large size
7. Four quick-release plastic clamps
8. Eight spring clamps

Shaping
1. Cabinet rasps and files
2. Floats, ¼” mortising float, bed float
3. File card
Screwdriving
1. Complete set of screwdrivers, Phillips, straight, Robertson
2. Set of index bit and driver for drill/driver

Sharpening
1. Eclipse honing guide
2. Duo-Sharp Diamond stone (x-coarse and coarse)
3. Sharpening stones, waterstones, 1,000, 4,000 and 8,000
4. Plant mister
5. Hand blocks (medium and fine)
6. Oil and oil-soaked rag
7. Mill file
8. Burnisher
9. Cheap 6” stainless ruler
10. Kell honing guide
11. 6” grinder

Miscellaneous
1. Detail carving knives, used for a wide variety of tasks
2. Sloyd shop knife
3. Sanding disk for table saw
4. Paraffin
5. Bench brush
6. Needlenose pliers, locking pliers
7. Putty knife
8. First aid kit
9. Two drawbore pins
10. Spray gun cleaning kit
11. Wide and varied collection of screws, nails, bolts, nuts, hardware
12. Hemp string, for measuring diagonals

Paul Johnstone

08-08-2008, 9:46 AM

I've been near woodworking for a long time and thoroughly enjoy it myself.
I am a new homeowner...with a large basement. I'm also going to be selling a motorcycle soon....approx. value: $5000.00.

Cyclone and ductwork (check out Clearvue and Oneida).. roughly $1500
but money well spent to protect your health.

I would just get a hybrid or contractor's table saw with a good fence.
Then an 8" jointer, Kreg pocket hole jig, a bunch of K bodies (I think they are still on sale at woodcraft) or Jet clamps.

If you have money left over and you know you will do this hobby for a long time, get a floor standing planer. Otherwise, a portable is fine.

Drill press can wait. Most of the time, I just use mine for Euro hinges. But if you still have money, get one.

Bandsaw can also wait. Jigsaw can cut curves. You probably won't be resawing stuff right away.

It's better to get the core tools.. Cyclone, table saw, jointer, planer. Get quality there.

Also, don't forget good dust mask, as well as eye and ear protection.

Joe Cunningham

08-08-2008, 10:06 AM

Wow, you all really spend a lot of money on this hobby.

I spent $300 for used hand tools and can go from rough cut lumber to finished product without need for ear protection, dust collector, or electricity.

Might take me longer to do things, but I still get great satisfaction out of my hobby.

After a year of doing it this way, I am thinking of buying my first piece of power equipment--a bandsaw. I've re-sawed lumber by hand and while I can do it for small projects, it sure isn't a whole lot of fun. Don't mind planing rough lumber by hand, and the wood shavings are saved for fire starter.

I figure in a few years I might get a drill press to cut down on hand-chopping mortises, and maybe an EZ system for cutting sheet goods.

I think if I had $5K to burn, I'd get a full set of hollows and rounds from Clark & Williams and a nice set of Wenzloff & Sons saws.

I'll crawl back to my Neadertal cave now...

Tim Marks

08-09-2008, 7:59 AM

You have probably figured out by now that everyone here has an additional hobby.... spending the new guy's money....

Don't blow your $5000 in one shot.... make sure you are going to enjoy what you are doing. I would add one tool at a time, adding the next tool when you find you need it. And if you have a basement, sizing of tools might be important (you can get a 6" jointer down the steps easily, for example, but an 8" jointer takes a crew). My basement stairs severly dictated what I was going to buy. Now that I have a ground level "shop", I am much happier.

If you buy everything at once, most of it will still be in the box in a month or so, because this stuff takes some time to set up. You will enjoy yourself more if you concentrate on one machine at a time, and buy the next as you find your self needing it.

I would purchase tools in the following order (one at a time):

1. Hybrid TS (like the new Grizzly G0661 with riving knife... it is not a contractor saw, despite the name).
2. Lots of clamps (I like the Bessey tradesman bar clamps... I have alot of the Bessey K clamps, but they are heavy and awkward and I don't use them except where I really need them).
3. Router (I like my DW625 and PC892, in that order).
3. Oscillating palm sander.
4. 6" or 8" jointer and 15" planer (don't buy a lunchbox planer)... these are like peanut butter and jelly, can't buy one without the other.
5. Dust collection of some sort (something with a canister, a cyclone can wait for a while until you get a full workshop and permanent DC trunk lines installed... search for "cyclone" and "dust collection", and you will find alot of arguements about this. none of which need to be reiterated here). You will find that you really need this for the first time when you start running a planer.
---The above is the minimum, from here on down, you might not find them important for quite awhile.
6. Drill press
7. 16-18" BS (depending on your basement steps). Buy a good one; my favorite tool (but I would still get the TS first).
8. Stationary sanders.... my choices are a 12" disc and an edge sander (my Grizzly G0563 is great), but YMMV.
9. CUT (compact utility tractor)... forklift attachment makes moving machinery easy ;>

Matt Sollars

08-09-2008, 10:33 AM

i really appreciate all of the advice guys.
through reading all o the posts, i've started to head to the camp that says the following:

1. buy used when possible.
2. spend about half on machines...for now...use the rest wisely to get started.

#1 is sound advice, but the more i look, the more i realize i can't tell a good old tool from a bad old tool.
which brings me to #2.

#2 If i were to cut the budget in half....and look for:
Table Saw
Planer
Jointer
What recommendations do you all have for these?? specifics on these three.

i'll pick up a random orbit sander and router, etc....also.....but this is just for those three machines.

thanks guys.
matt

sidenote. my uncle has about 1100 acres in southern missouri (tons of cedar down there). if you cut a tree down....how long from initial cut down.....to dried enough for woodworking (8%-12% or whatever it is)

Jim O'Dell

08-09-2008, 11:56 AM

I think you are wise to consider spending 1/2 now on core items, and have money to get things you need as you need.
Sounds like you want or feel you need the Table saw. I have a contractor saw, and it works well for now, but I want a Cabinet saw bad. For the TS, I'd vote for the Griz 1023. Get the one with the cast iron router table and you'll have 2 tools in one to start with. When you feel you need a different set up for the router table later, the CI one will still work great for the extension table. 1200.00 shipped
Sounds like you will be working with raw wood. Jointer and planer will be a must. Find the best deal you can for these. Lots of people like the Griz 4090 8". Usually priced around 942.00 shipped. That wouldn't leave much room for a planer except for a lunchbox unit. Lots of people like the DeWalts and the Delta. I got the Delta unit on a great sale at Lowes a few years back. Never been plugged in. I'm building a mobile cabinet for it now. Those three items will put you at 2500.00. Note, I don't own any of the Griz tools at this point. My suggestions are from what I've read from owners who are happy with them. I am considering a 1023 myself if something used doesn't appear around the time I'm ready to upgrade. And there is nothing wrong with other brands for these items. Griz just seems to offer a lot of bang for the buck, and a good rep on their newer tools.

One thing I will add is to get some good set up tools. No matter what you spend on the core tools, they won't be worth squat if you can't set them up right. You need to get a good dial indicator and a good set up square, minimum. I just recently purchased these, and setting up the equipment right is all the difference in the world.

Good luck! Watch the Craigs list, Ebay for tools in your area you can go look at, the classifieds here and on other wood forums. If you purchase in the near future, many people are getting some nice rebates from Microsoft for using the buy now option on qualified purchases. If inclined, look at some government auctions in your area. I know there were some here in TX recently. Houston and San Antonio. Schools that were getting rid of some woodworking equipment. Might find a good deal there. And keep an eye out in the local paper even. Like you, I'm not real comfortable purchasing used, in case I miss something that is a problem. If you can make friends with a local woodworker that has an eye for these things, he/she might be willing to help if you find something interesting. Jim.

Art Mulder

08-09-2008, 12:17 PM

#2 If i were to cut the budget in half....and look for:
Table Saw
Planer
Jointer
What recommendations do you all have for these?? specifics on these three.
...
sidenote. my uncle has about 1100 acres in southern missouri (tons of cedar down there). if you cut a tree down....how long from initial cut down.....to dried enough for woodworking (8%-12% or whatever it is)

Sorry, Matt, but I disagree. If you're going to be WW'ing in your basement, then I think you are going to need a DC right away. Especially, if you are putting the planer down there. I used to keep my (portable) Planer in the garage and use it only out on the driveway before I had a DC. No way I'd use a planer indoors, in my house, without a good DC hooked up to it.

The standard answer on air-dried lumber (piled outside) is 1 year for each inch of thickness. Dunno if that is different for cedar or not. You can speed that up by piling it inside, using a dehumidifier and blowing a fan on the stack. Either way you'll want to add a Moisture Meter to your shopping list.

Ron Bontz

08-09-2008, 7:54 PM

Ah yes if you are using rough cut lumber especially. I used s3s lumber for probably 12 years or so before I was able to purchase a jointer. I would rip the lumber almost to the width I needed then pass it through the planner with very light passes to get any cup out. (Delta DC 380) I also rarely glued up boards more than about 6" wide. Before I had a planner I would also use a 6"x6" x 24" sanding block on glued up tops. ( A little bit of Neanderthal work) Didn't have any money in those days and lived in a tar paper shack. Still don't have any money and live in a slightly bigger tar paper shack but I have lots more tools. :D

Ron Bontz

08-09-2008, 8:21 PM

Well Matt, asking about specific brands is a loaded question with lots of opinions. Make no mistake though. Without a dust collector and air cleaner you will have fine dust every where. Upstairs and down.
As far as the rest of the tools I think these days it's a tougher choice. I don't really own any but I think Grizzly has come a very long way in the last 10 years. Otherwise I think Jim had some excellent points. Some of the best craftsman I have ever met know how to use those hand tools well. I have my own book case in my shop full of wood working and construction books. You might consider asking the guys in the "Neanderthal" section about hand tools for starters. Power tools are impressive. But don't make the craftsman. Best of luck.:)

Jason White

08-16-2008, 6:07 PM

1. Festool plunge-cut saw
2. contractor-type tablesaw or used cabinet saw
3. all Festool sanders and CT22 or larger dust collector
4. Bosch, DeWalt or Festool plunge routers
5. Bench Dog cast-iron router table insert (for the tablesaw)
6. Lie Nielsen low angle block plane
7. Hitachi, Bosch or Festool miter saw (a slider)

I've been near woodworking for a long time and thoroughly enjoy it myself.
I am a new homeowner...with a large basement. I'm also going to be selling a motorcycle soon....approx. value: $5000.00.

So, without sounding abrasive, avoiding all of the 'life lesson' type responses...

what would you spend the money on?
i'm looking for specifics....

brand and model of table saw......brand and model of jointer.....brand and model of planer.....etc.

i have quite a few of the necessary hand tools....clamps....portables (circ. saw, jigsaw, etc.

so....set up a basement shop with $5000 budget.

thanks for the suggestions ahead of time guys.

matt sollars

Peter Quadarella

08-16-2008, 8:46 PM

Well, I can't help you with the table saw because I don't have one, but when thinking about a planer and jointer, I thought about 2 different ways to go. I came close to getting the jointer planer combo from Jet. But in the end I decided to go the cheaper router for now and get just a Ridgid planer and for jointing I use either a sled with my planer or some hand planes which I purchased.

Eric Larsen

08-17-2008, 6:50 PM

My $5000 list:

Buy used whenever possible, but know how to spot a lemon or bring someone who can.

1) A late-model Bosch jigsaw ($100 used). You'll be amazed how often you reach for this tool once you have one.
1a) A decent 14" bandsaw with riser block ($400 new). If you know in your heart you will never resaw lumber, you can skip this.
2) Jointer -- at least 8", 220v, 3hp+. There is no such thing as "too big" here. ($750 used)
3) 13"+ floor-standing planer. ($400 used) 15" or 20" would be better. A planer/jointer combo would save space and $$$ at the expense of increased setup time for every project you make.
4) About $500 worth of bessey/jet/etc clamps. I usually reach for the 18" and 36" clamps. But I have four 6' Bessey bar clamps that have paid for themselves 100 times over.
5) Just about any dust collection system -- preferably the kind you attach a 30-gallon metal trash can inline as a chip collector ($200 used).
6) A really good router and bits matched to whatever it is you're building ($400 or so)
7) If you don't have them: eye, ear and lung protection.
8) A really good fire extinguisher if you don't have one on each floor of your house already.

Total: $2,750 -- and if you scour craigslist, you can do even better than that. I found all of the above plus a cabinet saw for about $2500, but it took me 6 months, and most of the tools needed repairs.

Spend the rest on wood, sandpaper and finishing supplies. Wood should be your largest purchase. Build a workbench first. That will give you an idea of what other tools you'll want to buy.