Possible tool gloat... but mostly a cry for opinions from everyone...

[Joshua Dinerstein]

So here is the situation. I have been frustrated with my lathe a few times lately. It is the "larger" Harbor Freight lathe with the nice cast iron ways etc... But I have been turning some bigger bowls, the most recent one was a 12" blank. And even with the 9" ones before that I have found that when I put the bowl gouge to them I can stop the piece entirely. Not with a catch but rather just with the friction of the cutting itself. The speed I have the lathe set to doesn't seem to make any difference on that.

So I guess the first question is has anyone else experienced this with that lathe and can it be fixed? i.e. I wonder if something might need to be tightened or ??? I ask this one mostly so that I can justify the next part of this.

So here is the interesting part... I got the local classifieds and I found a Powermatic 3520b lathe. Very lightly used and for sale at what would seem to be a great price. It was used in a demo by the local turning-mecca store Craft Supplies, i.e. woodturnerscatalog.com, and then sold to this guy who used it twice and now wants to sell it. The intresting part he added the extension bed which adds another 18" to the length of the bed. The current price $2300 and it is local.

(However the same place has Rikon lathes, the 70-500 woodfast, which is very similar and the same basic price.)

So anyway the question put to those who are also looking to upgrade and those who have would you buy it?

Ah crap it just got worse. I just got a reply email from Toolnut and they will sell me one for $2599. So it is $300 for a used one, though it does have the bed extension.

So anyone? Anyone? What would you do? ;)

Thanks,
Joshua

[John Shuk]

If it is local I might opt for the used lathe. $300 is $300 and the bed extension if you wind up thinking you don't need it could fetch a few more bucks.

I have not heard of ANYONE who isn't happy with their Powermatics.

[Bruce Pennell]

Joshua after turning for only 3 months I took the plunge and bought a 3520b from Shawn at Toolnut. He was great to do business with. You will love the 2hp and variable speed. I know its a lot of money ( I think its the best money I ever spent). My wife gave me a piece of advice when I wanted to upgrade..."why buy some ones junk, just get what you want" (I have a great wife.) The 3520b is a great machine, I didn't buy the extension. (yet), I love the sliding head stock, its like having 2 lathes in one. Hope this helps...Bruce

[John Sheets]

Joshua,
I wouldn't think that the used one had received several hundred dollars' worth of wear. I know the bed extension is pretty pricey, (I didn't get one for my 3520B), and you're also saving a few hundred off the Toolnut price. You might even be able to negotiate with CS for a little more off!
I think I'd take a hard look at the local one. JS

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Joshua,

I have the PM3520B with the bed extension. Depending on who you buy it from that bed extension can be $300-600.

I'd take a careful look at the local one. I mean go look at it. Check to insure that the point on the drive center lines up exactly with the point on the live center when both the headstock and the tailstock are locked down. Check to make sure it runs smoothly. Open the door and look at the drive belt. See it there is any indication of unusual wear. Run the motor and make sure there are no unusual noises.

Then, I'd call Toolnut and see what they want for the lathe and the bed extension.

You could be saving more than $300 by buying the used one locally. It would certainly be worth looking at it carefully.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Joshua,

I agree with everything Ken just stated but also you should consider warranty. How old is the used lathe and is it still under warranty? While you hope nothing ever happens to the lathe - sometimes parts are faulty. Just something else for you to think about! Either way - a powermatic would be one heck of an upgrade! Hope to see photos of your new lathe real soon!

[Robert McGowen]

No one mentioned shipping. I am guessing that the Toolnut price does not include shipping. Also, everyone seems to sing the Toolnut praises, but I personally have got the run around from them when trying to buy something, as I had a lower price somewhere else that they would not match. It sounds like with the shipping and the extension, you might be $600-$800 ahead with the used one.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Robert,

If Toolnut is like most dealers, it's a factory drop ship and the shipping is free, if it's not a residential delivery requiring a lift gate.


BTW I agree with Steve about considering the warrantee. That's the very reason I suggested looking at it CAREFULLY.

[Reed Gray]

At that price it won't last long. It will keep its value very well, and it is doubtful that there is anything wrong with it as it is a very good lathe. I had a 3520A model for 8 years and stepped up to a Robust. I did replace the headstock bearings once, and the on/off switch, and the variable speed knob. I abused it severly, and used it a lot, maybe 5,000 bowls, and a host of other turnings. I could stall it with a big scraper on a medium bowl, but I am very agressive.
robo hippy

[robert hainstock]

If you can upgrade to a3520B you should. As to the low torque on the HF, pull the belt gaurd and see if the motor pulley is stuck in the open position. this has happened to mine several times, andit is easily taken care of bu tapping the pulley closed with a large screwdriver tip/hammer. a little lube, and you're good to go. If you get the 3520B you will want to keep the cheappo for small jobs. Good luck with your choice. :eek::eek::):)
Bob

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Joshua after turning for only 3 months I took the plunge and bought a 3520b from Shawn at Toolnut.
They do have some really great prices. The difference in cost is notable but not extreme. Here in SLC there was a Powermatic lathe a 4224 that was going for $2200. At that much of a discount it was a no-brainer, though I missed my chance on that one, but at the closer price on this one I am just kind of waffling more than I had thought I would be. If that makes any sense at all.


My wife gave me a piece of advice when I wanted to upgrade..."why buy some ones junk, just get what you want" (I have a great wife.)
See that is one of my thoughts as well. Buy it new and not inherit any damage or problems. Doesn't guarantee being problem free but it could really minimize that whole side of things.

Thanks,
Joshua

[Joshua Dinerstein]

and you're also saving a few hundred off the Toolnut price. You might even be able to negotiate with CS for a little more off!
I didn't quite get what CS equals? Classifieds? I did talk to him and the price is now down to $2200 for it all. So the without the extension bed the discount is now $400.

It would just be nice if the toolnut new price was a bit cheaper. Then it it would be easier to just go for that one. :) Plus there is that "shiny-new-out-of-the-box" feeling that one doesn't get with a used tool. hehehe

Thanks,
Joshua

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Hi Ken,


I'd take a careful look at the local one. I mean go look at it.

Ok I did this. I went out and spent about 45 minutes looking it over. I noticed a few things but I am not sure what they all add up too.

1-
Check to insure that the point on the drive center lines up exactly with the point on the live center when both the headstock and the tailstock are locked down.This I did. I looked it over carefully and at first they were off pretty visibly and I thought "Well... so much for that!". Then I locked both down and they sealed down nicely and are very much a direct line up between the 2 points. They were seriously dead on. so that isn't a problem.

2-
Check to make sure it runs smoothly.I wanted to do that but there was no power in this storage shed. So I was unable to see it run at all or turn it on in anyway. I don't like the thought of that. So much could be wrong that I just can't "see" without being able to turn it on.

3-
Open the door and look at the drive belt. See it there is any indication of unusual wear.There was no wear on it at all. But the belt actually looked seriously brand new. No cracks, no wear, no build of anything (lubricants, dust, corrosion, anything...)

4-
Run the motor and make sure there are no unusual noises.Again I couldn't and given that you mentioned it twice in various ways it begins to look like a must-do before I plunk down any hard earned cash.

And now for what I noticed when I went out to look at it.

5- There was a small bump where the extension bed met the ways of the lathe. It was off just ever so slightly. The tail stock slid over it with almost no hesitation several times and the one time actually bumped into it. With it being that far out I couldn't tell if it was lining up nicely with the drive center or not. So I just wonder, especially if anyone has one, is that normal or a sign of a problem or perhaps just a sign that it should be tweaked a bit to get it perfectly lined up?

6- There was a bit of "gunk" on the top of the ways. This the owner explained away as the packing/shipping protectant it originally came in. My current lathe, a Harbor Freight special, came covered in a nasty shipping oil so that wouldn't be much of a surprise. But it was pretty seriously gummy at this point and I worried about cleaning it off and if there would be any lasting issues as a result. Anyone know?

7- There was visible but not deep rust on the threads and block of the drive spindle and drive center. It was not pitted by any means but it was red and rough. There in front of me he pulled out a wire brush and scrubbed it just for a second or 2 and where he had been working it was clean and new looking. So I don't think it was much of a problem but I don't know. My lathe has never sat around long enough to corrode in anyway way. So I don't know if it is a problem or not. I don't want it to get lose when using chucks and what not but I also don't want things to freeze up on me should it return. I think a year in a storage shed was just not completely kind to the thing.

8- There was one ripped off leveling foot. Apparently when moving it to the shed it got caught and the nylon pad and metal disc above were both ripped off. So it would need to be repaired, which is improbable given the weight of the thing, or replaced. This one could impact it's short-term use until a suitable replacement could be obtained.

9- There were a few scratches and quarter size dings in the paint on the bed and legs. The kind of thing you would expect if it has be strapped down in a truck and driven out to a storage shed etc... I didn't consider these anything more that cosmetic.

So that was pretty much what I observed when I was looking at it. Any comments? Anyone?

I did ask him and the lathe is about 2 1/2 years old. He did not think there was a warranty but I think I will try calling Powermatic directly and see if I can found out if it is transferable etc...

Thanks to one and all for all the great responses. It has been very helpful to think my way through it all.

Thanks,
Joshua

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Steve,


but also you should consider warranty. How old is the used lathe and is it still under warranty?

I just called him and it is 2 1/2 years old. He didn't think there was a warranty on it but didn't know. Suddenly saving a few hundred dollars doesn't seem like quite as good an idea. :confused:

That was one I didn't even think to ask about when I was there looking around.

Joshua

[Bruce Pennell]

Joshua its not a real bad spot your in either way you jump you end up with a PM 3520b! How bad can it be? Have fun and good luck....Bruce

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Joshua its not a real bad spot your in either way you jump you end up with a PM 3520b! How bad can it be? Have fun and good luck....Bruce
A very good point.

Thanks Bruce!

Joshua

[Wilbur Pan]

Ok I did this. I went out and spent about 45 minutes looking it over. I noticed a few things but I am not sure what they all add up too.

Hi Josh,

All of the machinery I have bought used, including my lathe. In addition, my machinery dates back to the 1940s. In getting them tuned up (including a teardown of the headstock of the lathe -- don't ask), I think that I have a pretty good handle now on what things can be dealt with in dealing with used machinery.

The small bump where the extension bed lines up with the ways of the lathe is negligible. At that distance, you are going to have more problems with runout based on the alignment of the head and tailstocks (unavoidable at a distance of 34" or so) and vibration from the length of the piece you're working on than the bump you are talking about. If it really bothers you, some work with a file will take care of it.

The gunk can be cleaned, and it shouldn't have any effect on the lathe. I've cleaned worse stuff off of old machinery.

The superficial rust on the drive spindle is negligible, based on your description.

The levelling foot issue is easily fixed. I would just replace it. In the short term, you can put a wedge under that leg.

If I followed this thread correctly, you can get this lathe with the bed extension for $2300. New, it looks like the price for the two is about $3500. Paying 65% of list price for a used piece of machinery in nearly new condition seems pretty good to me.

The two things I would think about is the warranty issue, if you want that extra security, and the motor. The thing is, you'll eventually get to a point that you'll need to tune/fix the lathe on your own anyway. And a motor is replaceable for a few hundred. You're still coming out ahead in a sense if the motor is DOA. Perhaps the seller can give you some sort of motor guarantee if it's making bad noises when you get it hooked up to power. Or find some way to get it started up before you buy.

Plus, you can take the money that you saved and get a Tormek. ;)

[Bill Bolen]

When I gought my lathe it too was used but in great shape. I had a minor problem with it after about 6 months, e mailed jet (same support as pm ?) and they told me my warranty was good and would run for 5 years! I bet they do the same for you...Bill..

[Jim Becker]

Local with the bed extension would be my first choice...

[Hilel Salomon]

Joshua,

Someone near my Central Virginia club advertised a PM w/bed extension for 2500 and I thought that was overpriced. 2200 dollars sounds OK, but you haven't discovered whether or not it runs!!! At 2.5 years, it should still have some warranty, but ..... Personally, I would need to know for certain that the motor is ok and that the 3phase converter is OK. If either of them isn't working, then the few hundred dollars you have saved will be blown away immediately.
Lathes don't depreciate too much, so a working lathe for 2200 dollars or less would be ok...... but I would absolutely have to have a guarantee that the motor and converter work.
My 2 cents, worth almost every penny.
Regards, Hilel.

[Chris Barnett]

My understanding is that the 5 year warranty on my new 3520B applies to the original buyer only. I did not purchase my lathe from the ToolNut but would have if I had known that I could; I did however buy my PM209HH from there. Doubt you will get a better deal or faster service [:D]anywhere.
What I do not understand is how they can sell a new 3520B for about $2500 when the prices went up from $2500 [last years price?] and going up again. Wish the little Jet was the same price as last year [$250]....would buy one in a heartbeat.

[Johnny Kleso]

First sounds like your belt is slipping..

You not stalling the motor (Loud buzzing sound) are you???

You are in low speed ?

If your not stalling the motor pour or wipe Brake Fluid on the belt to clean and help it get greater traction...