Can you spell "DO NOT TOP LOAD"?

[Todd Burch]

Felder delivery was made late yesterday afternoon. Another un-stellar showing of the delivery companies' competency. The AD751, (combo jointer/planer) on a huge pallet, 4'+ x 7', and almost around 4½' tall, clearly marked on EVERY visible side "DO NOT TOP LOAD", was top loaded. They crushed the overarm blade guard and it will have to be replaced. I think the table and cutterhead are fine... but I don't know for sure yet. Talk about a let-down... Ugggggggggg. While the cutterhead guard took the brunt of the load, the table itself took some abuse too...

The dust collector & power feeder came through unscathed. The open 2X4 crate for the FD250 mortiser pretty much fell apart during shipment through extremely rough handling.

And what did the driver say "Hey man, I'm just the delivery guy." NO MAN - you ARE the delivery company.

I noted the paperwork, took lots of pictures, and made the delivery guy wait around until I was satisfied that all obvious damage was accounted for. Felder is working on new replacement items.

I'll get back to it this evening. For now, it off-to-work-I-go.

Todd

[Tim Morton]

What a drag....itrs amazing how some things can come thru the delivery process better t han they left, yet sometimes the stuff looks like it went through Iraq on the way. Hope it all ends up OK for you.

[Bruce Page]

Man, I’d be really really PO! This ain’t chicken feed! :mad:

Although Felder did not cause the damage, I would also give them a piece of my mind for selecting such an incompetent delivery service.


Hang in there!

[Russell Svenningsen]

"Although Felder did not cause the damage, I would also give them a piece of my mind for selecting such an incompetent delivery service."

Amen, amen, and again I say, amen! This must be infuriating for you!

Why must this happen? Again, and again, delivery services creating problems where they don't need to occur!

"Hey man, I'm just the delivery guy." Typical customer service attitude these days!

Hang in there, can't wait to see pictures of everything when it's been recitified and is up and running!

Best,
Russell

[Lee Schierer]

I feel your pain, bu tthe fault lies as much with Felder as it does with the shipping companies. I deal with freight shipments all the time where I work and see all sorts of damge caused by inadequate packaging.

Several rules the people shipping thisgs should be aware of:

1. Gravity does not exist in the back of a truck. If it isn't firmly fastened down, it won't be in the same position when it arrives.

2. the only way to prevent top loading is to make the crate in a shape that can't accomodate anything on top.

3. If it will rust, then take steps to protect it, there is no such thing as a dry truck.

4. If it cannot with stand a drop of 3 feet, it isn't packed well enough.

5. If you don't want other things to poke it or rub on it, then put it on a large skid and enclose it with framing. Full plywood sides are even better.

6. If it isn't itemized on the shipping papers, it won't be there on the other end when it is delivered.

[Chris Padilla]

Sorry for all this, Todd. What a PITA and you are dropping some serious cash on some serious equipment...what's another couple bucks to ensure it is delivered well?? Good grief.... :( :mad:

[Michael Perata]

I'm with Lee on this. When I got my MiniMax stuff I couldn't believe how badly it had be crated (hah! what crating.) for sea shipment.

Fortunately my equipment did not have any damage, but you would have thought it got dropped into the cargo hold of some tramp steamer the way it looked coming off the back of the delivery truck.

[Michael Ballent]

Oh man that stinks!!!! The delivery companies just do not seem to care any more, and it seems that the more the thing weighs the worse they treat the item... Good luck on getting it resolved, but I am curious as to why you did not refuse delivery? I know that it is exciting to get a new toy, but God nows what other things may happen with the jointer, due to the rough handling.

-Michael

[Wes Bischel]

Todd, I would also agree with Lee. Felder picked the carrier - most likely based on price. They determined the packaging required to ship it etc. If you made your purchase based on price (like something from Harbor Freight) then this type of customer service is expected. Felder products by their very nature are not purchased based on the cheapest price - therefore the customer service associated with this purchase should be commensurate. They need to keep their good name, and blaming it on the carrier won't cut it. I would lean on them a bit - if nothing else to get the message across that they need to correct the poor "service" (shipping) in the future.
Naturally this doesn't help your situation (unless they refund the shipping costs), but it may help others.

Hopefully this will be a distant memory and you will be enjoying your new equipment sooner rather than later.

Good luck, Wes

[Mark Angle]

Todd,

Good luck on getting the replacements. Once I ordered a 25 ft fiberglass flagpole. Since it was coming by trailer I had it delivered to my brother's business. Nobody noticed, even myself when I got it home, a tire scuff mark on the side of the packing tube. Guess what, the pole was crushed on one side about 4 feet from the bottom. Got NO WHERE with the shipping company since it wasn't noted on the shipping invoice. However, the company I ordered from backed it up 100%. Got a new pole in just a couple of days. So if you need a flag pole contact Patriot Supply. I always wonder what these shipping/drivers stuff looks like at home. Picture them bringing in the groceries, talk about smashed bread. Anyway, good luck and hang in there.

Mark

PS. To be fair I've had some great drivers that went well above the call of duty. THANKS TO THOSE GUYS!!!

[John Leech]

I feel your pain. A buddy of mine had a similar thing happen to an order of queen bees. Despite numerous labelings the box was totally destroyed, the attendant bees were able to escape, but the queens were not so lucky. $400 gone in one fell swoop. He's currently dealing with the supplier and delivery company

[Chuck Wintle]

What a let down to have your new Felder smashed in shipment. The delivery man's comment is typical of a "never take any responsibility" attitude that has permeated a lot of business's. Hope you get the new parts in good condition and everything works as it should. You said that the table took some abuse? Is there a sure way to verify if there is no hidden damage...that would be my concern after the obvious is noted.

[Greg Heppeard]

Being on the receiving end of the retail tool market, I deal with this kind of damage almost daily. Is it any wonder that prices are soaring out of site? Somebody has to make up for crashed pallets of tools. It always rolls down to the consumer and the retailer gets the blame most of the time. The major companies, like Jet, Delta, etc. raise their prices to the distributor to cover their losses and the freight companies also raise theirs. Most companies have a minimum order amount and offer "free" shipping if you meet their minimums. Over all, somebody has to pay for the shipping I can guaranty that it won't be the vendors. They just raise the price to the distributor and we have to raise ours too. Retailers get a bad rap from all of this. The Amazons and Tool Cribs don't have to even see the product, so they don't have to deal with it. I see every tool that I sell, either in the box or on the floor. I still deal with damaged product. I take care of calling the vendor and dealing with the freight companies. That's the main reason that my prices are a little higher than the on-line companies that are so impersonal. Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now.

[Dan Bussiere]

Hey Todd,
At least the guy spoke English!
Dan

[Richard McComas]

Felder delivery was made late yesterday afternoon. Another un-stellar showing of the delivery companies' competency. The AD751, (combo jointer/planer) on a huge pallet, 4'+ x 7', and almost around 4½' tall, clearly marked on EVERY visible side "DO NOT TOP LOAD", was top loaded. They crushed the overarm blade guard and it will have to be replaced. I think the table and cutterhead are fine... but I don't know for sure yet. Talk about a let-down... Ugggggggggg. While the cutterhead guard took the brunt of the load, the table itself took some abuse too...

The dust collector & power feeder came through unscathed. The open 2X4 crate for the FD250 mortiser pretty much fell apart during shipment through extremely rough handling.

And what did the driver say "Hey man, I'm just the delivery guy." NO MAN - you ARE the delivery company.

I noted the paperwork, took lots of pictures, and made the delivery guy wait around until I was satisfied that all obvious damage was accounted for. Felder is working on new replacement items.

I'll get back to it this evening. For now, it off-to-work-I-go.

Todd


Todd, didn't you know when one applies for a job in the freight moving business the first question they ask is "can you read?", if you answer yes you don't get the job.

[Alan Turner]

Todd,
I was just thinking about your new toys, when I noticed your post. Bummer!
I can now appreciate the shipment of my Agazzani, from Eagle Tools. Jesse uncrates and sets up the saw, including for drift on the fence, and then builds a proper crate. Mine arrived from the Left Coast to the East Coast, with zero damage (I think he owns stock in a stapler company.)
I am sure Felder will probably air freight your parts to you.
But, since the shipping company screwed up so badly, I think I would ask for a refund of the shipping costs, probably from Felder since it was to Felder that you paid the shipping I would guess. Your time in dealing with their errors has value, which is probably greater than the shipping cost.
Alan

[Frank Pellow]

Todd, did you consider refusing delivery? I have done so for less expensive (much less expensive) damaged items. If more people refused delivery, maybe the shipping companies would smarten up.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Why does the bad stuff always happen to nice people? I'm sorry for all your frustration but it will all be worth it in the end. Just keep your eye on your final wanted end result: some very cool new machinery in your shop. Although this must be driving you nuts now, this will seem like just a bump in the road when you look back. Hang in there Todd. Alan in Md.

[Todd Burch]

Thank you all for your moral support, suggestions, advice and wisdom.

Refusing delivery might have made me feel good for the time, kind of a "I'll show you", but the damage, while disheartening and frustrating, can be resolved without much pain.

Felder's attitude is very good in this, and they will get me the parts I need and worry about shipping claims later.

As I sort through all these boxes and play detective for where all these loose parts go... :)... the order is mostly correct. They did ship a couple extra parts that will need to be shipped back (duplicates). One accessory was missing (the powerfeed bracket for the jointer), and more detective work shows it inadvertantly got dropped from the order sheet after the first of 3 rounds of working out my order back in January.

Lots of work to do in the shop - reroute dust collection plumbing, get 3-phase wiring done, doing a little machine and cabinet/bench relocating, and such. A wiser man would have had all this done between "order time" and "delivery", but not me!! (I think I was busy working for a living....) Now, I'm forced to do it all now, while trying to keep up production. Woe is me!!

Anyway, enough on this thread. I'll start another post with pictures and descriptions tonight. This stuff is REALLY heavy duty. Can't wait to get 'em running.

Tomorrow, I pick up the new narrow-spread pallet jack - thanks to Rob Russell for the suggestion on that one. Felder mobility kit for jointer/planer was $319. Narrow spread pallet jack - $330, and I can use it for my compressor, this jointer/planer and the wide belt sander and who knows what else - maybe even slalom time trials down the driveway.

[Chris Padilla]

Hmm, lil' more info on that narrow-spread pallet jack, Todd. :) Please! :)

[Jesse Marquez]

Todd,

I share your pain. Went through similar situation with my Unisaw. Something to consider, see if they will discount or wave the shipping charges. Since this now has inconvienced you and delays any future work. I'm not a lawyer ( I just play one on TV ha..) just trying to breakup your bad day. Let us know how this plays out.

Sorry,
Jesse

[Steve Clardy]

Think I would have refused shipment. That way Felder would see the mess when they got it back.

[John Miliunas]

Man, I'll bet you felt sick! I certainly would've. I'm glad that Felder is making it "right", but like some of the other guys mention, your time is valuable and you've paid a pretty penney for all this equipment! I won't even get into the psychological venues of the whole episode! Still, you say that most of the damage is easily repaired and that's a good thing. I sincerely hope no deeper damage was done to hinder performance or, more importantly, your safety! Keep us posted and I can't wait to see the setup in all its glory! Congrats are still in order! :cool:

[David Rose]

Todd, I'll bet they'll work things out for you. Taking the photos was a smart move. Sorry, that had to be a real disappointment. But it will pass.

David

[Rob Russell]

Todd,

Getting machinery that's been damaged in shipment is no fun. I was lucky - New Penn delivered all my big green stuff without damage. I have heard that Felder is good about stepping in when there is shipping damage.

As general info though, it's my understanding that shipping FOB (which is what the manufacturers do), means that you own the machine once it leaves the shipper - not the shipper. If you want insurance on the shipment, you can get it. Technically, Felder doesn't have to do anything about the damage to the machine - it's between you and the shipping company. The shipping company will typically provide recompense on uninsured stuff based on weight, and it's not much. From a customer service point of view, Felder (and any other machinery seller) would lose a lot if they didn't step in to help "make things right" in situations like these. If I'm wrong on my understanding of this, I'd appreciate it. I remember a post somewhere (Felder forum, WC - will try to remember) that talked about all this - it was an 'eye-opening education' to say the least.

I seriously doubt that Felder selects a shipping company based on lowest bid. It's time, and money, to them when they have to deal with problems like this and besides, we customers pay for the shipping anyway. Would it make a huge difference on a $10-$30K purchase if the shipping is $200 higher or lower? I don't think so.

If you're not getting the commissioning, I'd be extra sensitive about damage to the j/p tables and their supports. If enough weight was put on the machine to crush the blade guard, that could have done something to the structure underneath those aircraft carrier size tables. BTW, it's really amazing how the counter-weight springs make the jointer tables almost like a feather to lift up.

The pallet jack will come in handy just for moving the machines around while they are still on the shipping skids so you can get at things. Trust me - been there, done that!

Rob

[Todd Burch]

Rob, I'm SO glad you mentioned the "feather weight" of the table. NO how, NO way, is my table easy to lift. I have to pretty much get into a football stance and REALLY prepare my body physically to lift it. Perhaps there is more damage than I thought... I think I'll be calling Felder again this morning. :(

[Steve Jenkins]

Todd, what a bummer to get the machine in that kind of shape. I sure hope that the jointer tables are ok. If they are knocked out of adjustment, and I'd be surprised if they weren't, they can be readjusted but check to be sure they aren't cracked or otherwise damaged. Once you get things squared away I know you will love the machine. Definately check on the jointer table spring mechanism. May have to take a road trip just for grins. Steve

[Tyler Howell]

:mad: Bumber Dude!:mad:

[Rob Russell]

Rob, I'm SO glad you mentioned the "feather weight" of the table. NO how, NO way, is my table easy to lift. I have to pretty much get into a football stance and REALLY prepare my body physically to lift it. Perhaps there is more damage than I thought... I think I'll be calling Felder again this morning. :(

It could be something as simple as tightening the counter-balance springs. That's why I say that the tables can be really easy to lift. If the "load on top" problem bent something, somewhere - that's a different story. I'd guess that the work to lift my tables is on the order of 10-20 lbs of effort.

[Mike Keating]

Todd,

Now lets get to the important issue. IS THE BUBINGA OK?

Bummer, I had a horrible shipping issue when I got my new G1023SL about 2 months ago.

Mike

[Todd Burch]

Rob, I would say that the lifting effort is upwards of 80 lbs up, and 40 lbs down. If I lower the table, from fully upright, the springs will hold it just above the latches, which is correct. However, holding the table about midway, and letting it go, it SLAMS down. Not good. A little safety issue there.

Talked with Felder tech support this AM. The guy who helped did his best but he did not know the machine. He got me in the general area and I figured out what to remove to inspect the adjustment for the springs. It appears that the factory had already max'ed out the adjustment, as they can be tightened no more. I sent the tech support guys pictures early this morning, as he did not have anything himself to look at about the machine, and that's the last I've heard all day, with two voice mails left for them, inquiring about their action plan to resolve this.

I'm thinking now that I might try to locate another AD751 in the Houston area, and go see one that is in "known good" condition to compare.

And Mike - the bubinga is just fine... developing a nice patina!

Steve, come on down!! I have a guest bedroom with chocolate mints already on the pillows. Bring the Mrs. too. You could help me on shop layout too.

[Boyd Gathwright]

Hi Todd,

Just caught up to your post. I would have to go along with both Lee Schierer’s and Chris Padilla’s posts, in what they had to say about your damaged shipment. In my career, I would pinch hit from time to time and sign off on contracts of hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars before my company received a dime. We built specially designed skids and containers to ship most of our products to the customer. We built the containers so well that I recall a field report that pointed out that the shipping containers that we shipped to the Middle East were being used by people for housing. The problem I see here with your shipment is if they make the containers too good that cuts into FELDER’s profits both from the stand point of the increased cost of the shipping container and the added increase in shipping expense. The (Trick here is) ideal arrangement here is to strike a balance between not so well built and well-built containers and or skids etc. Just enough to keep the customer happy without complaining or very little complaining about his shipment and that is considered the best arrangement. Now, with my most resent delivery of my twenty-inch (20 inch) bandsaw G0507 from GRIZZLY the crate was just starting to fall apart by the time it reached me and this is about the norm probably for most commercial companies. Though there was little shipping damage, paint etc., there was STILL damage. Which as a rule means the customer has to get involved to get the discrepancies corrected no matter how minor. Of course there are always companies out there that are as conscientious as possible and my hat is off to them for that. I hope it does not take too long to clean up the mess you have on your hands. In a situation like you have it TARNISHES a lot of GLITTER off of Mr. FELDER’s STAR.

<O:p</O:p
Good luck to you

<O:p</O:p
Boyd :( :(




Felder delivery was made late yesterday afternoon. Another un-stellar showing of the delivery companies' competency. The AD751, (combo jointer/planer) on a huge pallet, 4'+ x 7', and almost around 4½' tall, clearly marked on EVERY visible side "DO NOT TOP LOAD", was top loaded. They crushed the overarm blade guard and it will have to be replaced. I think the table and cutterhead are fine... but I don't know for sure yet. Talk about a let-down... Ugggggggggg. While the cutterhead guard took the brunt of the load, the table itself took some abuse too...

The dust collector & power feeder came through unscathed. The open 2X4 crate for the FD250 mortiser pretty much fell apart during shipment through extremely rough handling.

And what did the driver say "Hey man, I'm just the delivery guy." NO MAN - you ARE the delivery company.

I noted the paperwork, took lots of pictures, and made the delivery guy wait around until I was satisfied that all obvious damage was accounted for. Felder is working on new replacement items.

I'll get back to it this evening. For now, it off-to-work-I-go.

Todd

[Mike Wilkins]

Hey Todd. Congrats on the new iron. Since I have'nt drooled over any
machinery like this in a while, please post some pics of the new toys
('scuse me, tools) when you can. Hope to have something similar in my
own shop within the next couple of years.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Very sorry to hear that Todd. You'd expect (paying as much as you do for Felder) that they would insure a good delivery experience for their clients. Hope you get everything straightened out fast.