First Machine to buy

["Jacob Robinson"]

I am only 19 but I have been working in a cabinet shop for the past three years and I want to start to accumulate some tools for myself in order to support my woodworking hobby in in the evenings. My cousin is wanting some builtin's for his basement so maybe that will put a dent in my start-up costs. I already have miter box, drills, router, and the normal hand tools. I assume you will all say that I need a table saw first, but every time I go over building something in my head I start to think of 5 other machines I would need to build it i.e. Planer, Jointer, Bandsaw, etc....

It also doesn't help that I am used to having all of that available at work everyday, not many people have the luxery of an 8'x12' SCMI Vertical panel saw at home!!

What do you all think of the Grizzly G1023SL
http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-Left-Tilt-Cabinet-Table-Saw/G1023SLW

Here is a cabinet for my brother and is average example of what I like to build except this is not a built-in of course
I built this in the shop at work, but I get the feeling my boss doesn't want it to becom a habit for me.http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff302/jake_robinson89/DSC02969.jpg

[eric auer]

I have a bunch of tools myself, but honestly the more I look at the EZ-Smart system, the more im thinking I need to change the way im thinking about tools and the way I work.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?f=26

[Jim Becker]

Your situation is unique in that you have access to "big iron" at work. For that reason, you might consider making your initial investments in quality hand tools, routers, etc., before jumping into your own big iron. That said, the 1023SL is a very nice machine. But consider the newer model available from Griz that has a true riving knife. (I don't recall the model number but it's been discussed here from time to time)

["Jacob Robinson"]

It may be a rookie-like question, but what exactly is a riving knife??

Our PM66 at work has no such thing on it that I know of

[Tim Byars]

To me, it seems that the most important thing is figuring out what machines you can most prudently use at work. You may, for example, be able to unobtrusively use a jointer and/or planer to prepare your stock at work, which wouldn't take much time or maybe draw much attention :)
Those machines also strike me as the ones that are likely to be far superior in a production shop to whatever you would get (or be able to afford) for your own shop.
If that's the case, the big decision would be tablesaw vs. bandsaw...and that's a tough decision. In my case it was a matter of making two big lists ("here's what the bandsaw can do that the tablesaw can't" and vice versa). Then it was still too close to call, so it just came down to which one I found a good deal on first. Ended up being the tablesaw.

[John Ricci]

It may be a rookie-like question, but what exactly is a riving knife??

Our PM66 at work has no such thing on it that I know of

A riving knife is the blade behind the sawblade in the pic. It acts as a splitter would, moves up and down with the blade and will allow non-through cuts with the knife in place to avoid a pinch that could cause a kickback. That's my story and I'm stick'n to it:D

J.R.

[Dewey Torres]

First machine should be a good band saw. Arguably the most versatile tool in the shop and doesn't take up a lot of room. Heck there are some shops that don't even have a table saw although I WOULDN'T RECOMMEND IT.

my .02

[John Bailey]

I'd go with a bandsaw first. I've never had a tablesaw in my shop, but I'm using the bandsaw constantly, or at least I did till I sold it to get a bigger one. I use a circular saw and home made jigs for any cuts I think the bandsaw won't work on. I know most would not give you this advice, but it's "my" story and I'm stickin' to it.

John

[steve reeves]

I'd buy a table saw first.... there are too many things you can do with a table saw to be without one.

I'm very surprised that your boss allows you to use his equipment to build "side jobs"... I know of more than one fellow that has lost a job over doing the same thing. The rare piece as a gift for a family member done after hours with your own materials maybe.. but most wouldn't even allow that.

[Mike Cornelsen]

A circular saw was my first purchase many moons ago (for home remodeling). You can do a lot with a cs and a straightedge. Browse the Eurekazone forum here on the Creek. That may be enough to get you started. Jet 14" bandsaw was my first big tool.

[Chuck Tringo]

I agree with the band saw, you can usually get a pretty good one for less than a good table saw, they have a smaller footprint, and when well tuned, can do more than you would think. If you already have a router and a circular saw, you can do most of what you need with the bad saw and these two. If you do go with a table saw, I recommend getting the only jigsaw worth having (IMHO) that doesnt cost $300 :D, the Bosch 1590. It will allow you to do some of the cuts you would miss out on for not having a band saw.

[Peter Quadarella]

Wow, I am surprised to see all the bandsaw recommendations. I was thinking the same thing (I use a bandsaw and EZ stuff) but I would have thought the first 10 suggestions would be to just get a tablesaw.

[Matt Hutchinson]

Quite frankly, as much as I agree that a bandsaw can do many things a tablesaw can, I do have a problem with that argument: sheet goods and wide crosscuts.

A well set up bandsaw can do great things. But if you want to make cabinetry and built-ins using sheet goods the table saw will be the better tool. Crosscutting wide stock on a bandsaw would require quite a bit of infeed and outfeed table setup, plus the quality of cut isn't that good by comparison (using standard blades). Also, setting up bandsaw guides to do accurate work is absolutely crucial. Although the lower end 'affordable' model bandsaws can be set up to make really nice cuts, they are relatively easy to knock out of whack. Plus, you have to take into account blade drift when ripping and resawing, which requires a quality adjustable fence that often doesn't come with small bandsaws. Many of these issues can be solved with a nicer model machine, but you will be forking over as much money as it costs to get a tablesaw, and you still couldn't do sheet goods easily.

Jacob, personally I recommend a tablesaw. Not much of a learning curve, easy and accurate setup, repeatability, can handle sheet goods fairly easily, can crosscut wide boards accurately (with a sled), and it can use a stacked dado blade. Granted, you can make grooves, rabbets, and dados with your router, but sometimes it's just a lot easier to use a tablesaw.

Well, that's my opinion. And as far as the Grizzly saw goes, it is a decent machine. But I agree that you might want to look for a saw with a riving knife. This added feature is a great way to increase safety. Make sure you post pics when you get whichever machine.

Hutch

[Peter Quadarella]

Matt you're absolutely right about the bandsaw and sheet goods/wide crosscuts. But that's why people are recommending circular saw guides or Eurekazone stuff with it. The EZ stuff is way better for sheet goods and cross cuts than a tablesaw. There's no pushing giant panels through a saw, just lay it down and cut.

The real place a tablesaw gets missed is in strange non-through bevel cuts and the like, most of which has to be recreated on a router or sliding miter saw. There's also a ton of jigs and information on table saws out there, which can be helpful.

[Frank Drew]

A sliding table saw can handle all your ripping and crosscutting needs. Next for me would be a jointer, then a planer, although I'd really want all three to be able to get some work out the door.

FWIW, I've never known of a commercial/professional shop that started out with a bandsaw before a table saw; I agree with Matt's summation of the advantages of the latter.

[eric auer]

Matt you're absolutely right about the bandsaw and sheet goods/wide crosscuts. But that's why people are recommending circular saw guides or Eurekazone stuff with it. The EZ stuff is way better for sheet goods and cross cuts than a tablesaw. There's no pushing giant panels through a saw, just lay it down and cut.

The real place a tablesaw gets missed is in strange non-through bevel cuts and the like, most of which has to be recreated on a router or sliding miter saw. There's also a ton of jigs and information on table saws out there, which can be helpful.


Just wanted to add that the EZ system also appears to be portable in a way that no tablesaw can match.

[Don Bullock]

Jacob, the cabinet you built for your brother looks great.

You are a smart young man to start collecting your tools for the future. I remember being in your position except I was using tools at my father's shop not those of an employer. My suggestion to you is that you buy quality equipment and tools no matter what you buy. No, they don't have to be expensive, but don't fall into the mistake I made at your age of buying tools as cheaply as possible. I can say that all the power tools that I bought early on were junk and I had to purchase more expensive equipment to replace them when they broke.

What you buy will depend on many factors. What you plan to make is most important. You can't make things out of wood without the right tools. Your budget is another major factor. Buy what you can afford without going into debt. The other important factor to consider is what tools do you have readily available that you can depend on using for the next few years without the person who owns them getting upset. I'm sure that others will over other factors to consider as well as advice. Good luck.

[Steve Clardy]

Nice looking cabinet Jacob.

I would go with a tablesaw first

["Jacob Robinson"]

As far as building side jobs, I can only do them if it is a non profit job, I don't sell anything I make for more than material cost alone, (obviously I do alot of free labor for Family and friends!!)

The only thing is, as unbelievable as it sounds, our shop doesn't have a planer or jointer, we do have a 40" wide-Belt but everything we buy is S3S and we do few glue-ups most of our panels come from plywood that is edgebanded or our raised panels are pre-fabbed by northern contours (great product by the way they are ready to finish as soon as they arrive)

Thanks for the input, It'll be a while before I get it I have to get my shop in order first.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Jacob, welcome to the forum.

When I look back over my tool and machinery purchases, I always come back to the same two thoughts;

1) Purchase the best quality tools you can, don't skimp or you'll just replace them later.

2) Make your first major machinery purchase a good quality cyclone with good filters, sized large enough for your future needs.

I know, you can't cut wood with a cyclone, however you can make your shop more pleasant to work, and keep your health so you can enjoy your shop into your retirement years.

Regards, Rod.

[Frank Drew]

Well, I wouldn't buy a dust collector before I bought machinery -- after all, what would be the point? -- but it's a good idea to buy it at the same time or as soon after as you can; dust and shavings all over the place are totally annoying, a health hazard and safety issue, etc.

[Heather Thompson]

Jacob,

Welcome to the Creek, Rod and Frank both make valid points, I would suggest watching the classifieds on this site and watching things like Craigs list. I picked up a very nice PM66 last Novenber from a local member here at the Creek, also talk to your boss, he may be able to get you a deal since he is a business owner. Your boss may have very good relationships with machine companies and may be able to help you out, they obviously like you since they allowed you to use their equipment for a personal job, nice work BTW. :D I would also suggest that you add your location to your profile, never know what might be right next door, I have a used contractor saw that needs a new home ( adoption fees are very reasonable).

Heather