sawmilling up some walnut

[Fred Voorhees]

Hey guys. I have reached out to my most reliable source of wood and woodworking information, but until I hear from him, I thought that I would drop in and post the few questions I had here also. I have free access to this walnut tree at the school where my wife works. I will be having it sawn up into lumber this Sunday AM and would like to know the opinion of you guys about how thick I should have it cut at to have it a a dried thickness of one inch. I'm thinking an inch and a quarter, but if I could get away with inch and an eighth, than all the better. Opinions? Also, what would be the best sticker material? I suppose walnut naturally, but what else would serve the purpose and create as little staining as possible? It will be air dried outdoors under cover. Oh yeah, how do I tell if it's regular walnut or black walnut? Is there any subtle clues or are the two one in the same? And that hole on the surface of the trunk.....it is just that, only on the surface and the core should be solid through and through.

[Steve Clardy]

I suggest 1 1/8"

It is black walnut, which has less sapwood than american walnut.


Use dry stickers, 3/4x3/4, an industry standard.

Sticker every 16-18"

The end stickers, keep them on the very end of the board.

I suggest cutting the heartwood into 5/4 or 8/4

[Gary Breckenridge]

Paint or wax those ends. If you want your boards to plane out to a full inch have them rough cut at 1 1/4". Cupping shouldn't be a problem but I'd stick them every foot and put some weight on top of them to keep them flat.;)

[Richard M. Wolfe]

We mill at 4/4 on the woodmizer scale and that yields a 1 1/8" board (don't ask me; the one inch scale gives one inch). We have no trouble getting 3/4" lumber out from this but one inch for boards of any size would be a stretch. I'd cut at 5/4 to get final dimensioned one inch boards. Use dry stickers spaced no greater than 16" apart.

[Terry Achey]

Hi Fred,

I just had teh Woodmizer at my house Monday to mill two black walnuts and a maple. Wow... what a slick operator and impressive machine! He was there about three hours and my total cost (including one nail damaged blade and set up) was $240. I thought it was a bargain at $60/hr.

I cut about 100 3/4" x 3/4" stickers in advance out of inexpensive 1x4 pine. Cit the boards at 1 1/8". Also cut one piece of maple 4 x 8 x 72 and cut several short lentgh walnut at 8/4 and 12/4. Turned out the maple was beautifully spalted! Absolutely stunning boards!

Don't know what I'll do with all the lumber but I have alot! I cut the trees down because the maple was dying at the top and the walnuts are just too filthy with tons of nasty nuts and other droppings.

[Terry Achey]

okay.... that wasn't the right uploads :rolleyes: The maple in the first photo no longer lives there:D

try this.....

[Simon Dupay]

Almost any walnut you will come across is Black walnut, so it is "regular walnut"

[David Freed]

This is how Gene Wengert, possibly the most experienced sawing and drying expert in North America, answered a similar question.

"Traditionally, green 4/4 hardwood lumber is cut to a thickness of 1-1/16 to 1-1/8 inches AVERAGE. This allows for some variation due to equipment variations without being under 1.00. Mills with little thickness variation can easily cut to 1-1/16 average and the customer can still achieve the required thickness after drying and planing. (Note that kiln dried thickness requirement is less than green thickness.) When I first started in this business, it was common to see a lot more thick and thin variation. Average thicknesses were 1-1/8 plus a little more. But each 1/32 extra thickness is 2% yield loss, so, today the lumber is thinner on the average but still it is not too thin."


The mill that I buy my most of my lumber from saws at an average thickness of 1-3/32. Their saw is very consistent. I have dried about 250,000 bd ft from this mill, and almost all of it dries to a fraction over 1".

[Terry Achey]

Speaking of drying, from what I understand I suppose I'll have to kiln dry any lumber I plan to use for indoor living space furniture or casework.

Once lumber is kiln dried to 6 - 8% does it gain moisture again if it is kept in a shop regulated between 50 and 85 degrees?

Does lumber need to be at 6 to 8% to build indoor proejcts? What is the highest acceptable moisture content for walnut?

I suppose both question can be difficult to answer with so many variables in place. What should I expect to pay p/bf to kiln dry?

TGIF:D
Terry

[Frank Drew]

It is black walnut, which has less sapwood than american walnut.

I guess I'm with Simon; I thought American walnut was black walnut (Juglans nigra).

Fred,

I'd suggest having the log(s) sawn up into a variety of thicknesses since you might want leg stock somewhere down the line. I'd also strongly recommend flitch cutting (sawing through and through) for the best looking and widest material; toward the center of the log you can get your thick stuff since quarter-sawn walnut isn't as interesting as flat-sawn, which will come from further out on the log (on both sides of the center.)

Use Terry's photo as a guide to stacking and stickering.

[Frank Drew]

Speaking of drying, from what I understand I suppose I'll have to kiln dry any lumber I plan to use for indoor living space furniture or casework.

Not true, and in fact I've come to prefer air-dried stock although you can't be impatient with it -- a year per inch of thickness plus a year is really the minimum, IMO; longer might be even better as long as the wood is stacked well and protected.

Even kiln-dried lumber will gain and lose moisture with the seasons which is why it's important to get any wood you'll be using for a project into your shop or other indoor environment a good while before working it up.

[Fred Voorhees]

Thanks everyone for the information. I have had a general idea of this stuff and just wanted to throw it out there. I will be coating the ends with paraffin wax. The old gentleman who I used to get my rough sawn wood from did it that way and I guarantee that I have never, and think I will ever, see wood more beautifully dried than old Simmie turned out! The stacking will be no problem. I will be gathering everything I need hopefully tomorrow (Sat) and having it ready for Sunday morning when the cutting will be done. Pictures will be posted after the dirty work.

[Steve Nouis]

If your going to plane to just over 3/4" saw at 1", no sence in sawing at 1-1/8 unless you like planer shavings. Terry, how many bf in your pile? I'd guess 650 to 700, looks good. Kiln dried lumber will pick up moister stacked in a unheated or cooled shed but mosty surface moister which goes away quick when taken in a heated and cooled shop or house. Tight stack it and wrap in plactic after kiln drying and it won't pick much. Far as using air dried in the house you can for lots of projects, just keep in mind that it will shrink some. Things like cabinet doors use 6 to 8% or those nice fitting joint won't fit so nice after drying. Steve

[Fred Voorhees]

okay.... that wasn't the right uploads :rolleyes: The maple in the first photo no longer lives there:D

try this.....

Terry, nice stack of lumber there, but I don't notice any treatment to the ends???? You have to do something there to prevent some loss of stock.

[Terry Achey]

Not true, and in fact I've come to prefer air-dried stock although you can't be impatient with it -- a year per inch of thickness plus a year is really the minimum, IMO; longer might be even better as long as the wood is stacked well and protected.

Even kiln-dried lumber will gain and lose moisture with the seasons which is why it's important to get any wood you'll be using for a project into your shop or other indoor environment a good while before working it up.

Frank,
Thanks for the enlightenment. I'm in no hurry and I'll check the mpoisture content in a year or so and see where I'm at. I'll decide later if I need to dry any for indoor cabinetry.

Fred, I do have the ends treated with Anchorseal which is a parrafin based product. I treated all the long ends prior to sawing. Good luck with your wood cutting and stacking!

Steve, you're pretty close on the estimated board feet. I figured roughly about 650 to 750. I have some 16/4. 12/4 and 8/4 pieces hidden in the rear of the stack.

Regards,
Terry

[Frank Drew]

This is how Gene Wengert, possibly the most experienced sawing and drying expert in North America, answered a similar question.

But each 1/32 extra thickness is 2% yield loss, so, today the lumber is thinner on the average but still it is not too thin."

This illustrates why there can be an inherent conflict of interests between the sawyer and the furniture maker: The former is looking to maximize yield, which translates into maximum income, while the latter is interested in the best material for a variety of jobs and that sometimes means fewer, and wider, boards from a given tree than the sawyer would be happy with.

An ideal plan would be for the sawyer to decide on a price for a log before processing, then cut it up however the end user wishes.

[Jim Becker]

Speaking of drying, from what I understand I suppose I'll have to kiln dry any lumber I plan to use for indoor living space furniture or casework.

Kiln drying is absolutely not necessary, Terry. Folks have used air-dried lumber for thousands of years including for fine furniture. The method used to dry lumber isn't important; the technique is the key. Do it right, and you'll be a happy woodworker. MC of as much as 12% is just fine and often that nice 8% kiln dried lumber will get back up to 12% as a result of the ambient humidity in the local environment. Obviously, building with good techniques that accommodate wood movement is also essential.

Some species are actually more preferable to many when air dried and black walnut is one of them. The reason is that many times, steaming is used to increase yield on walnut that is run through the kiln...steaming darkens the sapwood, resulting in more "perceived usable" wood...but that results in the loss of a lot of the wonderful color in the wood.

[Fred Voorhees]

Stay tuned for the final footage count later on tonight. Have all of the figures, just gotta do the math. Pics to follow.

[Al Weber]

You are doing things correctly and you do not need to kiln dry. While the common idea is that you need an inch per year to air dry, it depends greatly on the wood, where you store it, and your environment. In southern NH, I routinely dry 1 1/8 inch cherry in a couple of months stored either in a barn attic or below the barn. The barn is basically open and there is a natural chimney effect from the lower barn area which is below grade up a stair case, through the main barn and through the attic access. I have never dried walnut so I can't give you any specific experience there. But rock maple takes longer than cherry and white birch is quite fast but yellow birch takes a lot longer. I agree with the post that says that air dried walnut has better color. I bought some a few years ago that is much clearer than the kiln dried stuff. I have been having difficulty with kiln dried materials recently. Much of it seems to be case hardened and becomes unusable after it is cut. I think some of the mills are taking shortcuts due to energy costs but maybe it is just inexperience.