mitered fascia leg photo essay

[Walt Caza]

Good Day to the Creek,
I know there is nothing new under the sun, but since I learned it here,
from Mark Singer...I call this the Singer leg. Thanks Mark!
In my last leg photo essay, I referred to this approach as a 3pc leg...
thanks to Mark providing the link to his original thread, I now know it is
actually a 2pc core...making it a 4pc leg.
This technique will conceal any built up core layers invisibly, while providing
pretty grain on all sides. Quite clever and looks real nyice.

pics are:
first rip cut into a half-core (to 3/8" pencil line)
second cut the same
third cut to the corner
fourth cut completes the half-core (pine test pc)
Do not trap the offcut as shown---missile alert!

continued next post

[Walt Caza]

pics are:
tidy core alignment, then chisel scrape (that's my pet scalpel)
glued cores end view
mitered fascia straight and true (a penny for your thoughts?)
keep checking and jointing the worst edge, to fit leg (I took .003" per pass) zen practise of my patience
jointer fence layed down to 45, pushblocks into corner-palms up, careful now

continued next post

[Walt Caza]

pics are:
4 pcs come together with good ole yellow glue (ray fleck awaits)
clamped m.f. leg (abbreviation, not frustration!)
leg end view---careful machining pays off---nowhere to hide
end view with pencil lines to show parts
all 4 sides grain match, because all 3 pcs 2.5" wide were taken from same board.
(a pair of half-cores, and resaw last strip for 2 infill fascia)

I found this approach challenging, new, and fun to play with...
thanks to the esteemed Mr. Singer for sharing his knowledge.
The leg looks good on all sides, with invisible joints in the corners,
and most importantly, quartersawn grain with ray fleck on all 4 sides.
As usual, I am only in it for the lessons and the laughs,
Thanks for looking,
Walt
smiling, but no smiley!
(I am finally gonna drop using all those smileys...)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Congrats Walt! Yup...Mark is top shelf IMHO!

[Rod Sheridan]

Very nice Walt, thank you for taking the time to post this.

I normally use a lock mitre cutter in the shaper, however I think I'll try this method out.

Regards, Rod.

[gary Zimmel]

Walt

Sweet looking leg! Top marks from me too.

Thanks for the post.

[Mark Singer]

Looks great Walt!

[Dave Tinley]

Walt-
Man that is a great idea. Will come in very handy for my Mission Style legs with QSWO.
Instead of using all those clamps, would tape or shrink wrap work as well ??

Thanks for posting

[Walt Caza]

Hi again,
Thanks for your kind words to Ken, Rod, Gary and Mark.

Yes Dave, this approach is great for seamless mission legs with QS grain on
all faces. With careful wood selection and colour matching, I bet some
folks would not recognize the trickery.

I am sure it can be done with fewer clamps, or another way as you suggest.
For me, I struggled in the shop for about 2 decades with just a few cheap pipe clamps.
Now that I am trying to learn to build more furniture, I can justify buying more and better clamps.

Since I 'earned' them, I've now got'em and plan to use'em!
They help to make glue-ups less stressful and I feel I am more in control.
take it easy,
Walt

[Mike Cutler]

Walt

Nice work on the legs and the photo essay. Very well done on both counts.

That is a nice little trick Mark shared with us. Thank you for expounding on it and taking the time to do the photos, and post them for all.

[John Townsend]

1) Some of us do not have the capability to miter the fascia pieces on a jointer, slanted back at 45. It seems to me that this operation could be done on the router table with a 45 chamfer bit (I hope!), no? Plus it occurred to me that if one were to cut matching stopped spline grooves in each half of the core it might simplify the assembly, perhaps? (done in such a way that the spline does not show through the top of the leg, hence a stopped groove)

2) Approaching the core/fascia idea a little differently, a thought crossed my mind that a 3 piece leg could be made, consisting one core and two fascia:

Core (planed or thickness sanded to exact size)


rip two 45's on non-quarter sawn side on table saw, similar to Caza's.
flip over rip 45's on opposite non-quarter sawn side
remove material in between 45's with dado blade, as many passes as necessary
It then resembles an I-Beam. Eliminated need to assemble core halves!


Fascia (planed or thickness sanded to exact size)


rip/bevel 45's on table saw leaving some stock to finish with router
finish 45's on router table with 45 chamfer bit, bring to finished size


One problem with this latter idea would be obtaining 12/4 QS oak.

[Don Bullock]

Walt, thanks for the tutorial. When you learn something from Mark you've learned from one of the best. Your post and following comments points out one of the unusual things about woodworking is that there are different ways to accomplish the same task. Your approach as explained and photographed is an excellent source for others to use or modify. Posts like yours are very inspirational and helpful.

[Mark Singer]

1) Some of us do not have the capability to miter the fascia pieces on a jointer, slanted back at 45. It seems to me that this operation could be done on the router table with a 45 chamfer bit (I hope!), no? Plus it occurred to me that if one were to cut matching stopped spline grooves in each half of the core it might simplify the assembly, perhaps? (done in such a way that the spline does not show through the top of the leg, hence a stopped groove)

2) Approaching the core/fascia idea a little differently, a thought crossed my mind that a 3 piece leg could be made, consisting one core and two fascia:

Core (planed or thickness sanded to exact size)


rip two 45's on non-quarter sawn side on table saw, similar to Caza's.
flip over rip 45's on opposite non-quarter sawn side
remove material in between 45's with dado blade, as many passes as necessary
It then resembles an I-Beam. Eliminated need to assemble core halves!


Fascia (planed or thickness sanded to exact size)


rip/bevel 45's on table saw leaving some stock to finish with router
finish 45's on router table with 45 chamfer bit, bring to finished size


One problem with this latter idea would be obtaining 12/4 QS oak.


You can use a hand plane and straight edge. Just watch the direction of the grain so you don't pick up a large splinter and tear out

[glenn bradley]

Great stuff Walt. Thanks for taking the time with all the pics and such. I have a coffee table coming up . . . hmmmmm.

[James White]

Walt,

That is some great workmanship. I hate to even ask. But, did you botch any pieces up? Was this perfection in one take as it appears?

I ask because, I considered this technique and found myself to be intimidated. That is not normal for me. But I can see that all must go flawlessly.

I really like this because if you making something like a dining table. The mortise and tenons will have the strength they need vs using a lock miter bit and having a hollow legs.

So I guess what I would like to know. If you could some how quantify the difficulty?

James

[Walt Caza]

Wow,
So, after 15 months dormant...
John T. awakens this thread?
The internet is a new animal in our lives.
Although time passes... it never forgets.
Cwazy shtuff. Very cool.

Hello to you too, John.
After joining the Creek a year ago, you make your first 2 posts this week?
And both threads that you responded to were older, and involved A&C style...
I suspect you are hatching somethin'!
What are you building John? and when can we get a peek?
You know the Creek is hungry for tasty woodworking photos...

If you do attempt to bevel fascia with a router bit, let us know how it works out.
Splining the cores would solve a problem that I never had...
my cores went together like a dream, very pleasant proceedure.
I recall how I enjoyed those glue-ups, and how a quick chisel scrape levelled the channel to let-in the infill fascia.
No alignment difficulties at all, and produced a true channel. Your mileage may vary.

You suggest it might simplify, but I say machining stopped grooves adds
more complication. Tallies to a net loss. I found any form of splines unneccesary anyhow.
(biscuits, loose tenon, etc)

Yes, sure, a one piece core could be used, if you could find stock thick enough...
but I used this approach is get ray flake on all leg faces when working in QSW oak.
I have never had the good fortune to find QSWO available for sale thicker than rough 8/4".

The multi-piece core is actually one of the shining advantages of this approach.
If you wanted to build up a thick, solid furniture leg but only had thinner
stock, this method enables you to do so, and with virtually invisible joints.
So versatile, and sooo discreet.

The original posted legs built this way by Mark Singer, we're huge!
linked here:http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=34542&highlight=coffee+table

So, sure, the cores could be a single piece with a ploughed dado groove and then rip out the bevels to form the infill channel.
Totally do-able.

But the elegance of M.S.'s approach is to accomplish any size of core by layered build-up,
and also accomplishing the cores in just 4 cuts per core-half with a regular tablesaw blade.
I appreciate not having to swap the dado stack in and out of the saw.
I also appreciate leaving the waste in stick form, versus more sawdust everywhere... including my lungs.

Not to mention the dado is less safe according to the increased exposure to risk theory.
Gives the saw more strength with increased grab on the wood.
Dado injuries I have seen are just nasty, with nothing left to try to sew back.

Each core-half requires just 4 cuts with a regular blade.
131604
But gladly, only 2 saw set-ups which is quick and dirty...
the way you like it.
The test pieces are from 2x4 scraps, and the 20 cores are enough to build 5 legs.
The worst of the legs becomes a shop sample, a layout story-stick and is useful for mortise testcuts.

Thanks for your interest,
good luck with it and
be sure to share a peek, with the Creek.
Walt

[Walt Caza]

1) Eliminated need to assemble core halves!

Hello again John T.,
It had been a looong time since I last thought about this thread.
Your suggested work-arounds indicated concern with core glue-ups.
Sifting through my photos from last summer, I found this pic.
You will find it to be right on point.
131609

So now you can see why the two-piece cores posed no alignment issues at all.
Now we see why I found the glue-ups quick, fun and easy.
Often times you could drive a truck between the difference in theory and actual shop practice.

Besides,
Stopped grooves are a tricky machining operation.
I tend to use them mostly for drawer bottoms.

You either crank the spinning sawblade blindly up into the material plowing to your marked sawtable,
or you drop the workpiece onto a spinning router bit at the router table,
or you use a handheld router with an edgeguide and plunge into the workpiece...
all of these are a handful in the shop.
I have also seen the workpiece lowered while pivotting onto a spinning tablesaw blade for the plunge.

The multi-piece cores eliminate the need for stopped grooves for alignment splining.
In this application, more trouble than they are worth, in my humble opinion.

As I said in my original post,
'As usual, I am only in it for the lessons and the laughs'
Eager to see your leg efforts,
be well,
Walt

[Walt Caza]

Good Day Leg fans,
While we are revisiting this old thread, I'll toss in a few more thoughts.
This is a link to a great photo of a massive Wenge leg built by the
illustrious Creek mod Mr. Singer. thread link:
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=43101&highlight=wenge+dining&page=2

or specific photo link:
http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=47206&d=1158727289

As Mark says, exotics tend to be available in limited thicknesses.
This technique works-around stock limits in a clever way.
His 16/4" Wenge legs are massive, discreet and impressive!
Once again I tip my hat to a dab hand.
I'd pay a high price to watch tuning the infills with a handplane.
I fear my own hands would struggle to sneak up on tight seams.

I'm pretty new at this stuff, but my passion and appreciation for it runs deep.
I guess you can call me a passionate sawdust enthusiast!
(and committed lifelong student of the craft )hehe

John T., here is a link to several A&C leg approach alternatives.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=86109

Thanks for your kind-as-always words Don B.
I just want to share and discuss what I have learned about the craft we love.
When are you gonna build that A&C bed?

Greeting Glenn B., also known as the jigmeister, I know you have
plenty of shop tricks up your sleeve.
Thanks for your kind words, eager to see your table pics.
If I recall correctly, your lady wants yours, so you gotta build a repalcement? hehe
(for some reason I really enjoy this thought!)

hope you get some shop time,
Walt

[Walt Caza]

Walt,

That is some great workmanship. I hate to even ask. But, did you botch any pieces up? Was this perfection in one take as it appears?

So I guess what I would like to know. If you could some how quantify the difficulty?
James

Hi James,
Thanks for your kind words.
Yes, these legs are both tricky to machine and assemble.
I grow weary of glossy magazines and slick tv productions giving a false perception of hobby woodworking.
The marketing lies of quick, cheap and easy misrepresent how it really is in the trenches.
I believe it is a disservice to the breadth and depth of our ancient craft.

Truthfully, these legs challenged me.
Accurate machine set-ups, sharp blades, many patient testcuts, and
thorough checking and re-checking at every step prevailed.

Particularly critical was dressing the resawn infills to straight and flat.
The bevel rips demanded the help of two sets of feathers to keep them true.
I used many clamps during assembly for more control and pressure distribution.

I built 5 legs as a little insurance, well aware that I could encounter trouble.
The worst looking of the legs was culled out as a layout storystick, and
proved handy for mortise testcuts.

I told myself going in...
that any gaps in the long joints would force me to scrap them.
Since I do this for lessons and laughs and satisfaction, I have a no-putty
policy in my little workshop.
There is an old trick, where you can finesse gappy mitres closed by rubbing them and rolling them over with a screwdriver shaft.
I had that up my sleeve, but did not need nor use it.

Surprisingly, I overthought these legs plenty, and worked them like a part-time job...
and my first set did go perfectly, as you say, 'in one take'.
I fully agree with you, all must go flawlessly to create a pleasing leg.

I also agree that a solid-all-the-way through leg better receives a tenon.
Seems like the hollow lock miter legs, or any hollow legs, could accept a
slipped in filler to accomplish the same?
I felt this was even more important on my first Morris chair which would
feature good ole poke-through tenons.
(as per the Morris thread in the projects forum)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=85886

You ask me to try to quantify the diffficulty?

Whew
Well, there's a scene in StarWars where Yoda is talking about Luke SkyWalker...
...and Yoda slowly says (in my best ominous Yoda voice):
"there is a-no-ther".

In my A&C leg photo essay:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=86109

There is a specific pic of a 5pc leg I built:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=90500&d=1213037161

That was the 'other'. (other tricky leg build, that is...)
Both construction approaches were a demanding handful.
Both bring strong advantages to the table.(real purdy)
Unsightly gaps would have caused me to scrap any and all of the legs.

Tough to remember how I felt over a year ago, but I would say tricky but doable.
The tougher the climb, the more satisfying the summit.(or some such shite)

My 5pc legs are for a coming Gus Stickley library table for my wife.(shhh...)
The extra mitered infill fascia leg (#5) kicks around my shop.

I'm pleased when I bump into it, and have handed the hefty little monster
to amazed workshop visitors, who never imagined such a thing.

If it's in your heart, I encourage you to try your hand at it.
Slow and steady wins this race. I can claim no special skill.
I believe you can pull it off!

Be sure to share a peek with the Creek,
see you in the sawdust,
Walt

[James White]

Hi Walt,

Thank you for that excellent response. I thought I was asking an impossible question. Yet you seem to have been able to convey the challenge that this technique present.

I didn't realize that this was a resurrected thread. So double thanks and also thank you to Mark for sharing this in the first place.

The links were very helpful. I am still going through those threads.

This is now on my to do list.

James

[Jerry Wervey]

Looking at your post I see a simple and safer way to make your legs if you want to keep the look of the QS on all sides use this router bit it wiil save not only time but will gve you true edges all the way around
Box miter bit looks 00-045 freud like a 45* chamfer with a notch in the side the cut that it make is interchangeable in that it can be used to join flat surfaces and then 90* as well spendy litle bugger $75.00

[Stephen Edwards]

Walt,

You are the King of photo essays and tutorials! Thank you very much for taking the time to document and explain the entire process. My hat is off to you!