Whats your idea of a "complete turnkey engraving setup?

[Rodne Gold]

With lots of posts about the economics of buying a laser I thought I would post this
If I were a dealer , I would put together a really nice "complete engraving package" and sell it with training and support.
My essential in machinery for an entry level would be
1) 600x400 x 25w laser+accesories
2) Smallish rotary machine + diamond bit for scratch and small rotary items , decent z travel
3) Small 600 wide print and cut vinyl cutter
4) Decent panel or table saw
5) Small overhead router , 4' x 4'
6) drill press
7) 2 decent puters
8) Hand tools
9)Compressor semi industrial
10) Corel
11) 2 weeks business school
12) 1 month training
13) 1 yrs free support
What would that cost?
$100k?
less?

[Steve Clarkson]

Rodne,

I'm VERY glad that you started this thread......there are ALOT of us that would like to hear the answers to this.

Steve

[Lee DeRaud]

My gut feel is that the overhead for the training/support staff makes this a no-go at the dealer level.

[Doug Griffith]

14) Dust collector
15) Enough engravable supplies to get started
16) An ecommerce website

[Joe Pelonio]

I'd probably add an airbrush, spray gun, metal shear and corner rounder. Maybe sandblasting setup.

As an "engraving shop" I don't think I'd include the vinyl printer/cutter or panel saw, though they would be required for a "sign shop", along with other items not mentioned here.

[Brian Robison]

(17) Aspirin.

[Rodne Gold]

Joe , engraving was not the most appropriate choice of words , I couldnt find a better term for a full service type operation in our industry.
i'd be keen to see what some of our dealers have to say or can come up with , especially the training aspect. Perhaps one could outsource some of the training. For EG Corel , Roland uni for the printer and perhaps rotary , Im sure some of the equip suppliers have roadshows or some sort of training facility?

[Brian Robison]

I think it would be pretty easy to add sublimation, and then pad printing and then..........where does it stop?

[Mark Winlund]

Good question.

An "awards shop" is different than a "sign shop".

Awards:

Laser with rotary and good dust collector, CNC engraver, sand blasting, sublimation printer and presses, and enough supplies for all. Pantograph for trinket work. corner notcher, punch, shear (both metal and plastic), beveler, safety saw. Lots of expensive software.



Signs:

Vinyl cutter, vinyl printer, CNC router, air brush. Big signs: panel saw, Sheet metal equipment, bucket truck, screen printing equipment, knowledge. Lots of expensive software.


Actually, "turn key" is kind of misleading. It implies that if you just get this stuff, you'll be off and running. All of these pieces of equipment require lots of training and experience to master. No one could offer complete training as part of a package deal. I've been in this business for a long, long time and I still have lots to learn.

Mark

[Mike Null]

I thought I had posted earlier but since it didn't "take" I'll change my idea a bit and tell you what I have in my home based engraving business.

1. 45 watt laser
2. rotary, diamond drag engrave which can do cylindrical
3. black laser sublimation printer
4. color laser printer
5. HP all in one
6. 3 pc's
7. heat press
8. vinyl cutter
9. corner rounder, hole puncher
10. metal shear
11. beveler
12. digital camera
13. supplies inventory incl. badge findings, metal and plastic
14. packaging inv.
15. compressor
16. woodworking shop, saws, routers, drill press, planer, jointer, etc.
17. finishing supplies--paint varnish, lacquer etc.
18. ample storage and prep area

[Scott Challoner]

How about a line bender? It's about the only other piece I have besides basic hand tools.

Not to redirect the thread... But Rodne mentions a complete turnkey business. If I had told my wife I needed $100k to start my business she'd still be laughing. I would assume that Mike accumulated his equipment over time (assuming you didn't buy an existing business). Like many, I bought the laser thinking it was all I needed. Ooops.

Assuming you already had the laser, what would be the next piece of equipment you would buy or, if you had to do it over again, what would you buy first?

[Rodne Gold]

I think the most useful piece of equipment to us is the CnC router and then our digital print and cut thingy.
The CnC router is also an engraver and can do what the laser cant, especially with cutting and engraving metals.
The digi printer is an amazing machine for all sorts of stuff.
The actual "point" of this post is that it really isnt viable to set up an operation using just a laser , one has to offer something "different" to suceed financially and one needs multiple machines to do this. We hardly ever sell the raw output from one machine .....we mostly sell combined applications.
For example a badge might be lasered rowmark for the name , a full colour digi print for the logo , all put on a 1mm brass backing cut with the CnC and then the whole bang shoot is domed.
Point of sale might be a combo of mdf cnc'd , pex laser cut and bent and digi print for logos and so on etc.
I really believe the marketing by mnfgrs of one item in isolation , like only sandcarving or only a laser is already putting the purchaser (Im talking cold purchaser here , not someone with a customer base etc) in a place where they are almost doomed to failure.

[Mike Null]

I agree completely with Rodney about the one piece of equipment idea. I started with a laser thinking I could do work for woodworkers. Well, I found very quickly that woodworkers are the most tight-fisted of people and do not regard your $20,000 laser as anything more valuable than their $600 lathe.

They also do not appreciate the expense and effort you took to acquire the skill to operate the laser. That rather quickly took me away from marketing to woodworkers and into engraving services and ultimately more equipment as I determined the need.

Today, I rarely do work for a woodworker or the general public (too much aggravation) and instead focus on institutional and commercial accounts. My business has grown every year and this year will be my best by a good bit.

I have sold my sandblaster and gave away my inkjet dye sublimation printer et al as being not worth the time or too much of a nuisance. I think sandblasting is fun and it's a good piece of equipment but I had trouble getting paid a fair price for the work.

[Scott Challoner]

Thanks guys. You've both confirmed what I've been thinking. I have been trying to get more industrial/commercial accounts too. I'm home based so it's hard to work with the general public. I've also been thinking about a ShopBot or Roland Versacamm as my next purchase, but they're both a bit pricey. Perhaps a vinyl cutter or ShopBot Buddy to start with.

Thanks again

[martin g. boekers]

Even with all that equipment , I think you left something out. Employees!

Marty

[Rangarajan Saravana kumar]

Shall we add a flat bed printer....


Saravanaa kumar

[Bob Davis]

Don't forget to buy a couple of hundred customers...

[Hilton Lister]

Unless you have employees, you take the risk of being(my father's favourite expression) "Jack of all trades, master of none".
It takes time to master all the skills necessary to run each type of equipment and one might be better employed concentrating on using one or two to a high standard. Even after 10 years printing and doming, it is a source of frustration to me with the amount of rejects I get. I would probably be better off just engraving, but where's the fun in doing just one job?
Besides, what keeps you interested, if not new toys?:)

[Hilton Lister]

I should mention our shop has 3 Pantograph manual engraving machines. 2 Computer Rotaries (in operation)
a Laser, Vinyl cutter, Sandblaster, 3 Guillotines, Drill press, Beveller, Table saw, Carbide cutter sharpener, etc, etc.
We also do full colour domed vinyl badges with an Epson C80, Sublimation and Hand Engraving. It's quite varied work, which is probably the reason I'm still interested after
45+ years, but I will never be rich.

[Bill Cunningham]

All the toys! Just because you have it, does not mean you will make any money with it.. You have to 'sell' it, and quite frankly, unless it's a real deal, (I have a complete sandblasting system with a 15cfm compressor that cost me less than 800.00) I won't buy it.. Why? because I'm so busy with what I have, I don't have time to learn any new equipment and associated techniques.. The sand blaster is a great example.. Dollar wise it was a good deal, does it make me money NO It's here but I have no time to learn to use it properly yet, so I sure can't sell anything made with it.. The laser has been a god send.. I looked at them for almost 15 years before I could almost afford one, and then I bought one. .. Now, It's far more than fully paid for itself every year that I've had it. But that can't be said for a lot of stuff it would be 'nice' to have..

[David Takes]

Rodney,

The initial start-up costs for a serious business venture in our industry will also include a commercial space, whether purchased or leased. Add that with a long list of other operational overhead, plus the fact that one will be living with no take-home income for 1-2 years.