Squaring off new tabletop by hand

[Jack Camillo]

Need to square up this 29 in wide 12/4 wenge tabletop. I glued it about three inches longer than I planned for the finished length (54 inches) as I planned to square it afterwards/
Posted under Neander because I can't get the biotch on the tablesaw or bandaw. In fact, as you'll see, I couldn't get the two 15in wide slabs (before jointing) squarely across the tablesaw either. And too thick for my circular saw. This led to my thread "Handsaw Order." I'd love to crosscut it with a handsaw but it would have to be a nice one, which as everyone here knows, you don't run down to the borg or woodcraft and pick one of those up. I actually visited both a couple times as if a Wenzloff & Sons would magically appear on the shelf. Anyway, here's my dilemma. (As I type this, I'm thinking portable belt sander (yuck) since the ends aren't really that far off.) How would you attack the task?

[JohnPeter Lee]

Hi,

Why not take 2 half-depth cuts with your circular saw, flipping the board in between cuts? Then handplane-sand the edge.

JP

[Jack Camillo]

Thanks. Thought about that, and still thinking about it. What concerns me is the possibility of disasterous tearout. Normally I would put a half inch board across it and cut that board as well to prevent the tearout. I'm realizing this is a psychological thing - I really want to convince myself I NEED to buy a Wenzloff saw NOW, which I do need for other tasks as well.

[Sean Kinn]

Got a router? If so route out the initial pass using a good straight bit, and the router against an edge guide (straight board). Then cut the rest of the way through with a circ saw, sawzall, jig saw with a big blade or a cheap hand saw. Then do final cleanup with a plane or router on max depth from both sides taking just a finishing pass.

edit: oops, I recommended a corded demon in the hand tool forum ;-)

[JohnPeter Lee]

Thanks. ... I really want to convince myself I NEED to buy a Wenzloff saw NOW, which I do need for other tasks as well.

But Jack, what you want NOW and what you can get NOW are two entirely different things! Sean's suggestion of starting the cut clean with a router is simple and straightforward. Place the order, and you can use that WS saw on the next (next...) project.

cheers.
jp

[Jack Camillo]

that's another good plan of attack. thanks.

[JohnPeter Lee]

Got a router? ...

edit: oops, I recommended a corded demon in the hand tool forum ;-)

...Could use a marking knife and chisel to scribe then cut an angled groove to start the powered cut. Then it would be OK.

;)

[Jack Camillo]

excellent advice!

[Wilbur Pan]

Thanks. Thought about that, and still thinking about it. What concerns me is the possibility of disasterous tearout. Normally I would put a half inch board across it and cut that board as well to prevent the tearout. I'm realizing this is a psychological thing - I really want to convince myself I NEED to buy a Wenzloff saw NOW, which I do need for other tasks as well.

I'm of the school of thought that any given saw will work best within a certain thickness range. Thicker boards will need a coarser TPI and changes to the set that I'm not smart enough to know about other than the changes need to be made.

If you are looking for the proper handsaw for this task, you could email Mike Wenzloff and just tell him, "I need a saw for crosscutting 12/4 wenge," and he'll set you up. The problem is, if you use that saw for cutting 4/4 stock, it may not do as well, which leads to buying more saws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. ;)

[Jack Camillo]

"Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. ;)"
precisely.

[Don C Peterson]

I don't want to discourage you in pursuing hand saws, but I see a bit of a problem here. Regardless of the quality of the saw you buy, if you have not become proficient in the use of a hand saw you aren't likely to get the result you want. You may be better off using tools you are familiar with for this one, order the saw and/or get some quality vintage saws and begin to learn how to tune them up and use them. The next time you have a problem like this, you'll have the tools and skill necessary.

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Jack. (never say that on an airplane)

If you have two miter gauges for your table saw, consider the following:

Remove the gauge from the runner (the part that runs in the miter slot.) Screw the runners to the bottom of the table top after marking a straight line across the the width. Place the runners far enough apart to assure that you alway have the equivalent of a full runner in the slot. One pass through the table saw and you are done. Repeat for the other end.

My experience is that a good sharp FORREST blade will cut through 3" thick stock.

Burn more electricity, it really POs the funny green people.

[Frank Drew]

I think a good way to learn, really learn, about your material (wood in this case) is to work it by hand for a while, so I'd vote for getting a good handsaw. But the resulting cut will still require some cleaning up with hand planes and/or sanders, routers, whatever...

[Robert Rozaieski]

How far out of square is it? Why does it need to be perfectly square? Are you joining it to something else like a breadboard end or just leaving it as is? If it's not that far out of square, I'd leave it alone, no one will notice it's not perfectly square. If you have to cut it shorter you can also do it with a saber saw and clamped on fence, but 12/4 may be slow going whether by hand or jigsaw.

[Wilbur Pan]

You may be better off using tools you are familiar with for this one, order the saw and/or get some quality vintage saws and begin to learn how to tune them up and use them. The next time you have a problem like this, you'll have the tools and skill necessary.

Hi Don,

What you say is very true. But given that Jack has about three inches of wenge to cut off the ends, if I read his initial post correctly, he could get a lot of practice by cutting off 1/4" at a time. By the time he gets to the final cut to his line, he'll have gotten plenty of practice. ;)

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Hi Wilbur,

Problem is with most woods--but especially Wenge--is that too thin an off cut is likely to break off the end during the cut. If one wanted to cut it in two passes of about 1 1/2" each, it would be stable. A pull saw that is very coarse toothed will allow a thinner off cut without incident with good technique.

Jack and I have emailed each other about specs yesterday. This morning I tested a few saws in the thickest piece of Wenge I have, about 2 1/4" thick and 9" wide. A 5 ppi cross cut traveled about 1" every 5-6 strokes. The finish left behind was as good as the 10 ppi (frustrating on this thick of stock) and the 8 ppi (which was still too slow). Slowness with great effort translates out to user fatigue, which (usually) generates sawing errors.

Take care, Mike
back to worky.

[Jack Camillo]

All outstanding replies and advice and much appreciated. More proof that there are many ways to skin a knuckle.
I have a bit of time to decide as I'm "babysitting" my 18 yr old daughter following major surgery. Funny thing, talking to the surgeon describe the procedure afterward. "(bone)saw, chisel, tap tap, screws..." I'm thinking of making him something symbolic. He'd probably make a great woodworker.

[David DeCristoforo]

Using the router is not a very "neander" solution but it is a good way to accomplish the task. If you get a 1/2" X 1 1/2" flush trim bit, you can remove the bearing and use the bit with a straight edge to guide the router, cutting to a depth of a little over half of the stock thickness. Then flip the stock, put the bearing back on the bit and use the "clean" edge you just made as a guide for the bearing. Rough cutting (by whatever means you have) to as close as you can get to the line first is a good idea but if you are already within a quarter of an inch or so to your cut line, you can forgo this "extra" step.

[Jack Camillo]

Sometimes the solution is right in front of you. I took all suggestions into consideration and even tried most. Thanks all for the suggestions.
After attempting the excellent solutions offered by readers, I stood in the middle of my (small) shop frustrated, looking at the floor. I saw the wheels on my router table come into focus. I raised my gaze, mentally measuring the height of the router table, then swang around and noticed it was close to the height of the bandsaw. Measured, and yes, it was 1/4 higher. Cleared off the router table, rolled it to the bandsaw. Hmm, since I have swivel wheels on one end I have to keep it going straight. Guess what, the table saw is lower than the router table by an inch or so. The PM 2000 has integrated casters - rolled the tablesaw to pinch the router table flush to the bandsaw, and dropped it to the floor. Everything is naturally square, and a couple double checks confirmed that.
Less than an hour after noticing the wheels on my router table, both ends of the 3inch thick wenge table are square everywhich way. The last picture is the second end trimmed up.
Next step, sand the ends with sanding block graduating from 100 to 320 grit, hit the rest with 220 again, then 320, and finish it.
The photo shoot -

[Jack Camillo]

continuing... shots 6-10