What is the best way to use a standard spindle gouge?

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Hello Fellow Creekers,

Is that actually a word? :)

I was doing some turning this last weekend and I decided to practice some spindle work. Basically everything I have ever turned has been a bowl as they were what made me want to start turning in the first place.

Anyway. I was working with my stock spindle gouge, a Benjamin's Best LX320 3/8th inch one, and I kept having the same darn problem over and over and over. I was trying to make some simple beads and I managed to mess them all up. Basically, I would touch the bevel of the tool to the wood and once I had good clean contact I would raise the handle just till it started cutting and then I would begin raising the handle and twisting to start going down one side of the bead.

But 99 out of 100 times it would catch in some odd way, almost as soon as I started trying to cut, and do this absolutely fabulous spiral cut as deeply as it freaking could! I would then clean it up and start trying to do the bead again and POW! it was back.

Now once I got a V-cut in the wood I could slice down the side of it with no problem. So it truly does seem to be a problem with how I am starting the whole process.

I was hoping that someone where might have some advice or know of a document or video or ??? that talks about using a stock spindle gouge or could help me figure it out. I would really love to start turning a few new things that are spindle work. The LOML wants a few candle holders etc...

I won't even get into the mess the skew made of things before I abandoned that. :) At least not yet, though at some point I am going to start pestering Ken for advice on learning to use it.


So any advice? Words of wisdom? Warnings? Anything at all?

Thanks,
Joshua

[Steve Mellott]

Joshua:

I'm just learning how to turn, so I can't solve your technical problem, but can give you some advice:

1. There are some great dvds available. I've viewed the Skew Chisel by Alan Lacer and Turning Wood with Richard Raffan. I'm sure there are others that are just as good, but for me a picture is more valuable than a written description.

2. There are some great woodturning clubs that you may be able to join. I've joined a local club that meets monthly and have already learned a lot about turning.

3. There are probably other woodturners in your location who would be willing to help you. I recently spent 4 hours in a friend's workshop practicing beads, coves, boxes, bottle stoppers, etc. It was extremely beneficial.

4. Many of the local woodworking stores sponsor woodturning demonstrations. I've attended several of them and the presenters are always willing to answer questions, even if they don't pertain to the subject of the demonstration.

You may have already explored these alternatives, but I thought I'd suggest them anyway.

Steve

[robert hainstock]

The only thing I've learned is to NEVER try to cut uphill. That is always cut inward. I usualy start with a cutoff tool to the depth I want and then go at it from either side. When I'd get in trouble, was when I tried to cut uphill, (towards the outside.):eek::eek::) Bob

[Steve Schlumpf]

Joshua - Steve gave you some really good advice, especially about the turning clubs. You may also want to do some searches on the web for videos - there are quite a few of them out there to assist beginners. Check this site out - should help answer some of your questions: http://www.turningtools.co.uk/videos/videos.html

Hope that helps!

[Mike Peace]

If you have broadband go to www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com) and do a search on woodturning. You will find lots of free woodturning video.

Videos are good, but you may also want to get a good reference book on turning like Keith Rowley's Woodturning - A Foundation Course. Sometimes a quick look at a reference when trying something new can help you. Even your local library probably has at least a couple of books on woodturning and possibly some videos.

[Mike Minto]

Josh, yes, "that" is actually a word. Mike :p

[Curt Fuller]

It's hard to guess without seeing what you're doing, but here are a couple things that I do. First I grind my spindle gouges with a fingernail grind, bringing the edge around to the sides. Then as you start to cut a bead, roll the gouge toward the side your cutting so that as the gouge works away from the center of the bead it rolls onto its side and is on its side when it reaches the bottom of the bead.
And as Robert said, don't try to work uphill from the edge of a bead toward the center. That has the same affect as trying to use a pocket knive to sharpen a pencil toward you.

But mostly just get some scraps of wood and practice. It get's easier as you get more used to it.

[Daniel Heine]

Joshua,

I don't know how your Benjamins Best spindle gouge is shaped, but mine is ground straight across. If I try to turn the gouge to cut down and edge, it does all kinds of funny things. I use my spindle gouge to shave the last layers of a spindle turning before going to the skew for a finished cut. This works especially well for me when turning acrtlic blanks for pens. For making beads and coves, I use my detail gouge. It has a very pronounced fingernail profile, and is much better suited to laying on it's side. If you don't have a detail gouge, you can easily grind your spindle gouge with a fingernail profile. I think this will solve your problem.

Good Luck,
Dan

[Joshua Dinerstein]

Joshua - Steve gave you some really good advice, especially about the turning clubs. You may also want to do some searches on the web for videos
I have been to the local turners club a number of times. I think the age difference kind of threw people off. Everyone was surprised to see me there as I was so young. At 39 I wouldn't consider myself exactly child-like anymore but I suppose it all does depend on ones own perspectives. :)

Anyway I had been searching the internet for videos but with a few pointers like these I managed to find a great many more last night.

Thanks Steve!

Joshua

[Joshua Dinerstein]

If you have broadband go to www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com) and do a search on woodturning. You will find lots of free woodturning video.
How interesting. I went to youtube first when I started looking and found almost nothing using the key words spindle gouge. Most of what I did find were videos demonstrating sharpening. When I used woodturning and just turning I found a ton more. Eccentric goblet turning etc... Pretty darn cool stuff. Found some good videos that show spindle work as part of making something else.


Videos are good, but you may also want to get a good reference book on turning like Keith Rowley's Woodturning - A Foundation Course.Thanks for the pointer to the book! I put a hold on it at the local library and will be picking it up today on the way home from work.

Joshua

[Andrew Derhammer]

I have been to the local turners club a number of times. I think the age difference kind of threw people off. Everyone was surprised to see me there as I was so young. At 39 I wouldn't consider myself exactly child-like anymore but I suppose it all does depend on ones own perspectives. :)
Joshua
I attend one monthly, and i'm only 15! There are a good amount of older folks but there are some guys in there 20's and early 30's there.

[Joshua Dinerstein]

First I grind my spindle gouges with a fingernail grind, bringing the edge around to the sides.
That is what I had done as well. I put a fingernail grind on one of them to try and keep the edges from causing problems. I have wondered if I put to steep and angle on it. I did the typical 30 to 35 degrees that I read online is common for a spindle fingernail grind.


That has the same affect as trying to use a pocket knive to sharpen a pencil toward you.
You know I did that once as a young boy scout. I still have the scar on my hand to prove how stupid a maneuver it was. :D


But mostly just get some scraps of wood and practice. It get's easier as you get more used to it.
Ohhhh... Now see that is a great idea. When I first started I just used some lengths of pine and got terrible chipping and tearing and went to some hard wood and had much better luck. But I was using the tools all wrong. Presenting a spindle gouge as a scraper is a bad bad idea. :confused: Not caring about finish but rather tool control means I could get an aweful lot of practice out of a couple of 2x4s...

But having said that I have to wonder is there better practice wood? Something I can buy that I can play with? I live pretty much in central Salt Lake City so "finding" wood seems to be somewhat rare for me. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Joshua

[Joshua Dinerstein]

I attend one monthly, and i'm only 15! There are a good amount of older folks but there are some guys in there 20's and early 30's there.
Well that would depend on where you live I guess. Seems you got luck which is great.

Joshua

[Scott Conners]

Most residential construction sites (wood framing) will have lots of free wood cutoffs during the framing stage if you check dumpsters and trash piles. The larger and more expensive the house the better. I am an electrician and I have plenty of trash wood, grabbing a few sticks every other week. I love the 4x4s and bigger. The wood is often very dry and the factory ends will be checked and split, but there is plenty of usable wood around. Scrap furniture, tree trimming leftovers, and hardwood firewood have all found their way to my lathe as free wood. Get a decent folding pruning saw (10"+) and keep it in your vehicle. Whenever you see trash wood, you can cut off what you want. If you have it, a cordless sawzall works too =D

You can usually find a firewood supplier somewhere nearby, where you can get a variety of woods depending on your location, usually fairly cheap. You might even find someone who does the splitting, and get to pick through some nice green wood.

[Wes Henson]

Look at your grind on the gouge again. Is it flat or bow in slightly? If so you are good. If viwed from the side and it bows out you'll never have good results (might be part of your skew problem there too).
I don't have a fingernail grind on mine, more of a long flat grind like a detail gouge, basically no wings.
When I first started (about 2 years ago so still learning a lot) I rode the bevel so much it burnished the wood. But I didn't have an issue with catches. It does take some time to learn to roll beads. I still have trouble with circle type shapes versus a tall, thin bead.
If you can get your gouge to work I'd really recommend trying your skew again. It is very much affected by the way you sharpen it, and it takes a while to learn - but it gives amazing results on spindle work. And I feel your pain on learning it. I've had catches that about caused me to soil my self. I just wish I could find a way to replicate that amazing spiral under more controled circomstances!!

Also this site helped me. He shows the angles really well.
http://www.a1studio.freeserve.co.uk/wtintro/wtintro.html

Good luck
As long as you keep trying you'll keep learning
Wes