Crown molding help sought

[Joe McMahon]

The warden has decreed that there will be crown molding in our dining room. I have never installed crown before but have been reading up on it. The molding that she wants is about 5' high so the opening between the rear of the molding and the wall/ceiling will be pretty large. I was thinking of taking a 2" square board and cutting it on a 45 degree along it's length. Then attach the board along where the wall and ceiling intersect and then nail the crown to this board.

Is this a good idea?

Also, I assume that the coping will be the major hurdle. Is there any easy way to cope?

TIA, Joe

[Mark Stutz]

Joe,
There are probably several guys upstairs that do this on a daily basis. It's been several years since I did crown molding (though i have a hundred feet or so in the basement waitng for me), but standard purchased molding is not at 45 deg. On the wall parallel with the joists, I cut angled blocks and screwed them to the wall studs to use as nailers. No tricks on coping either...except that if its to be painted it's a lot easier!:D (Thinkd caulk!:eek:)

Now if you plane to make your own with your newly acquired set of H&R, well make 'em 45 deg, whidh I believe is standard across the pond.;):D

Sorry not much help on this one.

mark

[Richard Niemiec]

Having done a whole lot of crown (5 rooms worth) about two years ago, the first thing I'd mention is that if you don't have 9 foot ceilings, a 5" (likely 5 1/4) crown might be out of scale, so do a mock up with a sample and be your own judge.

Second, consider a cornice treatment, and by that I mean if you get some stock base molding which complements the style of the crown, invert it, and install the crown above it, you can use that as the bottom nailer, and it looks great, not much more expensive and its a really classy detail. It really pops on outside corners.

Now for your question (presuming no cornice), you will have studs on all the walls for nailing off the bottom of the crown, and that's what I did, and on two walls you will have floor/ceiling joists for nailers. On the other two walls I spaced out blocks cut at the appropriate angle and nailed them to the studs on the wall and with some construction adhesive secured them to the ceiling, and nailed the crown off that way. I'm sure there are better ways, but this was quick for me and they've held up fine.

RN

[Jim Koepke]

Look for information on molding, miter and molding (moulding).

Use a piece of scrap to mark for the cope cut on the back side of the molding. Remember at the corner the piece is angled from the wall and the corner is another angle. This means you have a compound angle to figure out.

Did anyone mention use pieces of scrap wood to figure out how to cut and how it should look?

If you are good with a 1/4 inch chisel, lift a little wood shaving leaving it attached to the molding then start a finish nail, repeat where ever there will be a mounting nail. If you can, get some fish glue. Use it to glue the lifted wood back down. Use a piece of tape to hold it down then remove the tape when the glue is dry. You will want this to be a thin shaving.
Do this after the sanding, after the gluing, you do not want to do any but the slightest touch of sanding If you are not sure about doing this with a chisel, Lee Valley sells a invisible nailing kit for under $30.

Using scrap molding, compare an inside miter to an inside joint coped and you will see why over time with house settling you will want to cope instead of mitering the inside corners.

[Joe McMahon]

There are some great ideas here. I will
definitely check Lee Valley for the invisible nail tool.

Thanks, Joe

[James Davis]

The first rule I learned when doing Crown was "Upside Down and Backwards" The easiest way that I have found to picture this was to realize that when you face the wall, the upper left hand corner and the lower right hand corner are the same. Picture putting the crown on the floor just like base molding but canted the same as at the ceiling.

When I learned to run crown there were no compound miter saws that gave you the spring angle you had to do that yourself. When you cut crown with a standard miter saw you put it in the saw with the part that runs along the ceiling on the bed of the saw and the part that runs along the wall on the fence at the angle of spring that it will go on the wall. Then simply swing the saw to 45* left or right and make your cut. That gives you the cope pattern that you need to make a tight cope cut. When coping, be sure you back cut enough for the joint to fit tight. I have seen many a carpenter fight an ill fitting joint for hours because they didn't cut enough out of the back of the piece of molding to allow a good fit. As far as attaching it to the wall goes, I have had good success using 16d finish nails deiven into the top plate along the walls that are parallel to the joists above. The blind nailer that was mentioned earlier will be tough to use in the crown because of the profile of the molding. It is however a fine tool to have in your arsenal.

I am attaching a poor draqwing that tries to show the relationship of the two corners of the wall that I described.

[Prashun Patel]

If you're going to paint the crown, then use MDF. It conforms to walls better, machines better and takes paint better than wood molding. Don't use polyurethane even though it looks prettier on the racks and is pretty cheap.

Definitely install a nailer along the top edge of the wall.

To have full support, you really need to rip the nailer on a 30ish degree angle to follow the spring angle of the crown. But in my experience, it's a waste of time to rip the nailer on an angle.

It's much easier to install a 1x3 along the perimeter and then attach a 1x2 on top of that.

[Michael Faurot]

Definitely install a nailer along the top edge of the wall.
[...]
It's much easier to install a 1x3 along the perimeter and then attach a 1x2 on top of that.

I'm trying to envision this, based on the description, and can imagine that several ways. But I think it might be what I've got pictured here:
93617

I have only rudimentary skills with SketchUp, but what I'm trying to show is a 1x3 attached to a wall with a 1x2 in turn attached to it. I'm guessing the top edges of both the 1x3 and 1x2 should touch the ceiling. Is this correct?

[Von Bickley]

Joe,

I know that building techniques vary a lot depending on the part of the country you live in. In central SC, I have seen a lot of building and I have never seen a trim carpenter install a nailing block. They nail the crown to the studs, ceiling joist or the top plate.

[James Davis]

Joe,

I know that building techniques vary a lot depending on the part of the country you live in. In central SC, I have seen a lot of building and I have never seen a trim carpenter install a nailing block. They nail the crown to the studs, ceiling joist or the top plate.

Same thing here in North Carolina. the nailer would get in the way in the corners if you plan to run the first piece into the corner and cope to it. It is all personal preference I guess. You just need to pick what works for you and go from there.

James

[Prashun Patel]

Michael, yes, that's what I'm talking about.

You can certainly install withOUT a nailer; I've done it both ways. This way is a little more work and costs more than hitting the studs, but is easier and takes the guesswork out. For newbies, without a nailer, it can be hard to maintain a constant spring angle. It' sucks to get to the other corner and realize yr off after you've nailed in everything. Screw the nailers into the studs.

I cope my corners. In a coped corner, you butt one side into the wall and then cope the adjacent wall's piece into the butted piece (you'll have to read about that to see what I mean). If yr using a nailer, then you should run the butt side nailer into the wall, and run the coped side's nailer about 6" shy of the wall to accomodate the butted piece.

My ceilings are 9', so on some of the rooms, I actually ran the nailers longer (1x6") and then left the bottom edge exposed as a reveal. If you do that, though, you shld soften the bottom edge to be consistent with your crown's profile by routing it into a cove or 1/4 round or tacking those pieces on after...

[Ted Jay]

The warden has decreed that there will be crown molding in our dining room. I have never installed crown before but have been reading up on it. The molding that she wants is about 5' high so the opening between the rear of the molding and the wall/ceiling will be pretty large. I was thinking of taking a 2" square board and cutting it on a 45 degree along it's length. Then attach the board along where the wall and ceiling intersect and then nail the crown to this board.

Is this a good idea?

Also, I assume that the coping will be the major hurdle. Is there any easy way to cope?

TIA, Joe

When I went to the local woodworking show about 4 years ago, and I bought the Cut-n-Crown molding system. Sheldon, the guy who developed it, was very nice at the show, and explains it very well, and the darn thing works great. If you go to his site and watch the video, he explains the spring angle in relation to ceiling height and how the system works. No coping of trim is required, and it was absolutely well worth the money, I bought the complete kit with all three jigs, and I'll never part with it. It saved me alot of frustration at the previous house, and I'm not dreading it when I start the crown molding on our current house.
http://www.cutncrown.com/video_demo.php

Ted

[Mike Henderson]

If you're going to paint it, definitely go MDF. What I do is cut a miter in the corners rather than cope it. You need a second person when putting it up (well, it makes it a lot easier if you have a second person).

I got a lot of info from this (http://www.compoundmiter.com/) site. The net is that if your room has a flat celiings, it's not very tough. If you have cathedrel ceilings or other complexities, it can give you fits. My house gave me fits.

Make sure you get an 18 gauge nail gun. It's a pain to try to put up with a hammer and nails.

Good luck.

Mike