Rip cut safety

[Glenn Howard]

Feel free to chuckle, but I'm a noob, so this seems like a legitimate question to me. Let's say I'm rip cutting a 1x6, the result of which will give me approximately a 1x1 and a 1x5 (minus the kerf). How should I position this on the table saw...with the bigger piece on the fence side of the blade or with the smaller piece on the fence side of the blade?

From pics and videos, I've seen this done both ways, but from a safety standpoint, which is the correct method?

[Steve Clardy]

Widest part [5"] between the fence and blade is the safest, without a push stick.

[Jesse Cloud]

Good question and Steve nailed the answer.

Couple of additional points... always use a splitter when ripping, always use a pushstick on narrow cuts, a featherboard is a good idea, too. Lots of folks here, including me, use the Grrripper (search for it at woodcraft or amazon) for narrow cuts.

I guess this is a long way to say that while having the wider part between the blade and the fence is safer, you can safely do it either way using the right techniques and safety equipment.

[Bruce Benjamin]

Widest part [5"] between the fence and blade is the safest, without a push stick.


No push stick:confused: I don't want to get my fingers 5" from a spinning TS blade, thank you. Of course, for this I would use my EZ Smart but when I do rip thicker materials than the EZ will handle I use my TS and I always use a push stick.

To the OP, make sure you use a splitter and blade guard. Since you're a novice with tablesaw use you absolutely need to use all of the safety devices that came with you TS or use an aftermarket splitter and blade guard. Actually, novice and expert alike need to use these safety devices but a novice might not realize this. You need to use a push stick of some sort with this cut. You shouldn't put your fingers that close to the blade. Sure, some people do, some of them for their whole life without incident. And then BANG! "I didn't see it coming". Use a push stick and splitter and guard.

Bruce

[Steve Clardy]

Whatever you are comfortable with Bruce. ;)


You may have a stroke on me if I told you how narrow I rip on my saw.:eek::D

[Howard Acheson]

Either way is fine. With the 1" cut you need a push stick. With the 5" cut you don't.

Given the choice I would probably opt for the ripping the 5" size.

[Nissim Avrahami]

I do it either way but I use "featherboard".

I'll second Bruce Benjamin advice...
I'm not novice (13 years amateur) but I use the Splitter and Blade Guard....and a long push stick...

Regards
niki

93341933429334393344

[Charles P. Wright]

Feel free to chuckle, but I'm a noob, so this seems like a legitimate question to me. Let's say I'm rip cutting a 1x6, the result of which will give me approximately a 1x1 and a 1x5 (minus the kerf). How should I position this on the table saw...with the bigger piece on the fence side of the blade or with the smaller piece on the fence side of the blade?

From pics and videos, I've seen this done both ways, but from a safety standpoint, which is the correct method?
I would say it really depends on what you are trying to do repetitively. If you are trying to cut thin pieces repetitively, then put that between the fence and blade. If you are trying to cut 5 pieces repetitively put that in between.

I would use a push stick with either 1" or 5". Using 5" is probably a tad safer, because there is not very much room between the blade guard and the fence if you have a 1" rip cut; so it will be harder to push the offcut through than if you have 5".

[Bruce Benjamin]

Whatever you are comfortable with Bruce. ;)


You may have a stroke on me if I told you how narrow I rip on my saw.:eek::D

Can you give a reason why you actually recommend against using a push stick? This is a novice we are advising here and it just seems to me that if he's going to get advice that goes against conventional wisdom then maybe you could include an explanation.

I've ripped really narrow strips from really narrow strips with my TS, Steve. I'm not a novice or a rookie and I've been doing this woodworking thing for about 35 years now. I've seen safe practices and dangerous ones and I've done them myself too. I'm all for the safe stuff now.:cool:

Bruce

[John Thompson]

I always rip the side I want between the fence and blade down to 5/8". I always use a feather-board above the stock and to the left side. I always use a puch stick with any stock under 10" wide. When the stock is as narrow as 5/8" the stock gets basically pushed through with a thin, long sacrificial push stick as the stock is covered by the feather on top side.. fence right side.. feather over-head.

If you do go the the good side left of blade... make sure you account for keft width before the cut and keep in mind the fence scale really is taken out of the equation for the most part. Even if you use it in that scenario I would do a physical check of the set-up with the saw off to assure the kerf is accounted for.

Good luck...

Sarge..

[Cody Colston]

I would put my keeper piece between the blade and fence because that's where I would have measured for the cut. If it was the 1" dimension I would use a push stick, too, but for the 5" dimension, maybe, maybe not but probably would just out of habit. Then again, I do this as a hobby and my time is not as important as Steve's.

I'll swear though, sometimes I wonder why people even get into woodworking with all the safety gizmos they employ. Riving knives, overhead blade guards, GRIPPERs, dust masks, Sawstops, guided Skil Saws....If I was that worried about getting hurt, I'd take up bird watching or something.

Here's a news flash...the blade is very sharp and spinning at about 100 mph. If you touch it with your flesh you will get cut...probably pretty severely. DON'T TOUCH THE BLADE WHEN IT'S TURNING!

Pretty simple, huh?

[Glenn Howard]

Thanks for the responses. Logically I would have thought to keep the larger piece between the blade and the fence, but wanted to confirm that here. For those concerned, I have installed the splitter and blade guard and won't be removing it. I have picked up a number of safety items as well (angled push blocks, push sticks, hand guard push handle, featherboards).

I have a healthy respect for my tools, but as a rookie it helps to get some advice along the way. The last thing I want is for my new hobby (woodworking) to put an end to my oldest hobby (guitar playing).

[mreza Salav]

For ripping thin stuff, I've built the following very simple push stick that rides on the fence:

93345

Very effective and my hand doesn't have to ride the handle in between the fence and the blade. The step cuts at the bottom are for handling different thicknesses of wood.

[Steve Clardy]

Can you give a reason why you actually recommend against using a push stick?

Bruce



Bruce, apparently you are reading too deep into my post.
Without a push stick, [If he doesn't have one, nor use one] a 5" rip is safer

[Mike Sandman]

I would put my keeper piece between the blade and fence because that's where I would have measured for the cut. If it was the 1" dimension I would use a push stick, too, but for the 5" dimension, maybe, maybe not but probably would just out of habit. Then again, I do this as a hobby and my time is not as important as Steve's.

I'll swear though, sometimes I wonder why people even get into woodworking with all the safety gizmos they employ. Riving knives, overhead blade guards, GRIPPERs, dust masks, Sawstops, guided Skil Saws....If I was that worried about getting hurt, I'd take up bird watching or something.

Here's a news flash...the blade is very sharp and spinning at about 100 mph. If you touch it with your flesh you will get cut...probably pretty severely. DON'T TOUCH THE BLADE WHEN IT'S TURNING!

Pretty simple, huh?
Ummm... Cody, have you considered the risk of kickback? You can get hurt pretty badly if you get hit by an offcut propelled into you that blade spinning @ 100 MPH. That's what all those safety gizmos are meant to prevent. Kickback probably causes far more injuries than contact with a spinning blade.

[John Thompson]

Ummmm... Mike. You don't mean kick-back like an off-swing popping you in the gut so hard you spend the night in the emergency room and a day or so in the hospital while they stop the hemmoraging.. do you?

Nah.. could never happen. Just don't touch the spinning blade! No need to wear a seat-belt in your car.. just avoid an accident. No need for a cop or soldier to wear a flak jacket.... just don't get shot or stand in the way of flying sharpnel.

Life is simple... ;)

I wondered how long it would take for someone to repsond to the statement?

Regards...

Sarge..

[Rick Gifford]

Nah.. could never happen. Just don't touch the spinning blade! No need to wear a seat-belt in your car.. just avoid an accident. No need for a cop or soldier to wear a flak jacket.... just don't get shot or stand in the way of flying sharpnel.

Life is simple... ;)

Sarge..

LOL! 100% correct. Does anyone have the intent to get hurt on their tools? Nope, its always an accident. Be prepared the best you can. To each their own though.

[Peter Quinn]

Lots of different attitudes and approaches to safety in wood working. As a self declared 'Noob' I suggest you do what you are comfortable with and take advise under advisement, particularly mine.

That said when I rip I am looking for a precise dimension using the distance between the fence and the blade. The setting is consistent and repeatable. This is a primary function of a TS (also known as a VARIETY SAW, due to the variety of functions it may perform). So if I want a 5" piece (or several), I set the fence to 5" and rip. If I want a 1" piece, I set the fence to 1" and rip. If I want a 3/16" strip (or hundreds), I set the fence to 3/16" and rip. My approach to push blocks and splitters will vary with the thickness of stock, length of stock and width of rip. A 5" rip on 6' stock, I may push through without a push block. A 5" rip on 18" stock? Probably going for the push block for greater control. I have never put a 5" section between the fence and blade when I wanted a 1" strip, and I can think of no good reason to put 1" between the blade and fence when I need a 5" rip. I simply don't rip off the difference between what I have and what I want, makes no sense to me thought I have seen it done.

I use a splitter on every cut possible and a push BLOCK based on that little voice in my head. When I hear the words PUSH STICK I imagine those silly things that look like a cross between a pool cue and a child's first fishing pole. There is no place in safety for those silly push sticks I see so often. They offer distance without control. They say "I am so afraid of that spinning blade I want to stand way back here". Throw those things away now. If you are so afraid of the TS I honestly recommend you get a very good band saw, or a hand saw, or work wood in some other way.

A good PUSH BLOCK allows you to maintain contact with and control over your stock through out the ripping operation. Any method you devise should IMHO meet these requirements. Contact and control. Swishing a board past a spinning blade with a push stick like some shuffle board game is both foolish and dangerous. Your hand is 10" from the blade, but your point of contact with the board is up to 10" from the back of the blade where kick back happens. Does that make sense?

Blade guards may help to control saw dust, and they may keep you from doing something really stupid so use them if you like, but don't loose sight of the fact that beneath every blade guard (which primarily stop you from moving a hand into the blade sideways, and may remind you not to push your hand through the blade with the stock, or may not) there lies a spinning blade that can hurt you.

[James G. Jones]

As someone who almost lost a thumb to a 5/8" stacked dado head, and who took a kicked back offcut to the belly. I think I've learned my lesson. Blade guard - check. Splitter - check. Featherboards - check. A variety of various push sticks / blocks for most occasions - check. If I don't have the right one, I make it. If I continue to do these, I hope to be able to complete my favorite checklist: 10 fingers - check.

Oh - and don't forget "...the most important safety rule is to wear these, safety glasses"http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

James

[Cody Colston]

Ummm... Cody, have you considered the risk of kickback? You can get hurt pretty badly if you get hit by an offcut propelled into you that blade spinning @ 100 MPH. That's what all those safety gizmos are meant to prevent. Kickback probably causes far more injuries than contact with a spinning blade.

No, I never considered kickback...

Hey, I'm not stupid, I just look that way. What I'm saying is that now-a-days, there's a bunch of soft-handed, white collar types who get into woodworking when they could previously barely change a lightbulb and all they want to talk about is safety and what to add next to make things safer. Most of this stuff people use now-a-days wasn't even available 20 years ago and I believe there were plenty of woodworkers then, huh? And don't tell me, "yeah, but they were maiming themselves" because people are still maiming themselves...gizmos notwithstanding. That should tell you it isn't the machine, or the accessories, it's the person operating it.

If you have a lick of common sense and know how to work, grew up knowing how to work then you will know how to avoid getting hurt without dressing up yourself and your tools with the latest safety gimmick. If you spent your entire life behind a desk and all of a sudden decided you want to buy a bunch of power equipment spinning sharp blades and cutters just so you can relieve some stress, then God help you cause the gizmos won't...not for long, anyway.

Now, y'all flame away. :)

[Peter Quadarella]

...is that now-a-days, there's a bunch of soft-handed, white collar types who get into woodworking when they could previously barely change a lightbulb ... If you spent your entire life behind a desk and all of a sudden decided you want to buy a bunch of power equipment spinning sharp blades and cutters ...
:( I just wanted to make some solid stuff, and I like wood. Is that so wrong?

I didn't realize safety was so uncool. ;)

[Dino Makropoulos]

No, I never considered kickback...

Hey, I'm not stupid, I just look that way. What I'm saying is that now-a-days, there's a bunch of soft-handed, white collar types who get into woodworking when they could previously barely change a lightbulb and all they want to talk about is safety and what to add next to make things safer. Most of this stuff people use now-a-days wasn't even available 20 years ago and I believe there were plenty of woodworkers then, huh? And don't tell me, "yeah, but they were maiming themselves" because people are still maiming themselves...gizmos notwithstanding. That should tell you it isn't the machine, or the accessories, it's the person operating it.

If you have a lick of common sense and know how to work, grew up knowing how to work then you will know how to avoid getting hurt without dressing up yourself and your tools with the latest safety gimmick. If you spent your entire life behind a desk and all of a sudden decided you want to buy a bunch of power equipment spinning sharp blades and cutters just so you can relieve some stress, then God help you cause the gizmos won't...not for long, anyway.

Now, y'all flame away. :)

Cody,
Have you seen the first SEARS tablesaw commercial?
A guy with his buzz and cigar, a lady on bikinis and.... a tablesaw.
WHAT ELSE YOU WANT? That was the commercial.

I take only one.:rolleyes:

I know people with 40 and 50 years behind tablesaws and other spinning tools.
Some of them lost their fingers 20 and 30 years after they started woodworking.
I spend 25 years with blade spinning tools. I was lucky.

The search for safety is simply smart and have nothing to do with matcho
guys and changing lightbulbs.

Woodworking is all about finding new and better ways to make stuff.

[Lon Schleining]

Glenn, if you really want to get into this woodworking world consider taking a class or two from a real pro. You're in the midwest; take a peek at www.marcadams.com (http://www.marcadams.com). It's a very professional operation all the way around. I say this not just because I teach there occasionally. It's because of Marc Adams personally; a man as professional as they come. Ask anyone who's attended the school. At the very least you'll come away with complete confidence to make a judgement about using a push stick on a table saw or not.

[Norman Pyles]

:( I just wanted to make some solid stuff, and I like wood. Is that so wrong?

I didn't realize safety was so uncool. ;)
Me too....:)

[Nissim Avrahami]

I'm "larking" and posting on many forums around the world

Starting in the Australian forum, 2 Italian forums, UK, Canada, 10 American forums and even 1 Brazilian...

Maybe the problem is that in any WW forum there are 3 kinds of people
*Professionals
*Experienced amateurs
*Beginners

When a beginner is asking a question, usually, he gets replies from the Pro's and amateurs...some of them will advise to use all the safety equipment, some, with partial and some, without.

I think that the aim of a WW forum is - among many other - to give a responsible advise to the beginners....yes, of course the Pro's and the experienced amateurs can do it without all the "safety gear" but for beginners it's a little bit dangerous...

I would not like to see a post like this one...(roll up to see the picture)
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=769715&page=2

I think that it is very irresponsible to come on the TV or internet Video and tell me to "read the instructions and understand them"...and on the other hand to show how "I don't use the blade guard"....beginners are effected from what they see and read and if "HE" is working like that all the time and he doesn't have any accident - why not me.

I don't ware safety glasses while working on the table saw but I use the blade guard that is there not only to protect against "accidental contact with the blade" but also, to protect from all the UFO's that are flying directly into the operator (especially when cutting Melamine and Formica).

On the pics below, you can see my blade guard.
It happened in a split of second that I did not pay attention (not during cutting)...needless to say that only the noise scared the $#!t out of me and I jumped like I got an electric shock but...no "red colors"...:)

Regards
niki

9339593396

[Brian W Evans]

Glenn,

A lot of good advice here. I'll second the following things:



Use a splitter. It's safer and helps prevent burning. I don't like the one that came with my saw, so I use this one (http://www.microjig.com/MJ%20Splitter.htm). Works great.
Safety glasses. For me, this is a comfort as well as a safety issue. Sawdust in the eyes is unpleasant.
The piece you want to keep goes between the blade and the fence. This helps reduce kickback and reduces mistakes like forgetting to consider the saw kerf when measuring.
Use some kind of push block/stick. I will second the recommendation for the GRR-Ripper (http://www.microjig.com/). I have two and use them a lot. IMO, using a push block/stick is easier than not, anyway.


Have fun, be safe, post pics.

[Chris Kennedy]

No, I never considered kickback...

Hey, I'm not stupid, I just look that way. What I'm saying is that now-a-days, there's a bunch of soft-handed, white collar types who get into woodworking when they could previously barely change a lightbulb and all they want to talk about is safety and what to add next to make things safer. Most of this stuff people use now-a-days wasn't even available 20 years ago and I believe there were plenty of woodworkers then, huh? And don't tell me, "yeah, but they were maiming themselves" because people are still maiming themselves...gizmos notwithstanding. That should tell you it isn't the machine, or the accessories, it's the person operating it.

If you have a lick of common sense and know how to work, grew up knowing how to work then you will know how to avoid getting hurt without dressing up yourself and your tools with the latest safety gimmick. If you spent your entire life behind a desk and all of a sudden decided you want to buy a bunch of power equipment spinning sharp blades and cutters just so you can relieve some stress, then God help you cause the gizmos won't...not for long, anyway.

Now, y'all flame away. :)

Wow -- this is truly an impressive post. I don't think I have seen a post designed to insult or demean such a large class of people.

Really -- what is the purpose of this? There are plenty of threads that debate safety protocols, equipment, and the merits of various approaches. But this isn't debate, discussion, advice, or even a viewpoint. It is merely unsubstantiated assertions meant to get a rise out of people.

I'm sorry, but you are way out of line.

Cheers,

Chris

[Scott Vigder]

No, I never considered kickback...

Hey, I'm not stupid,.....
Now, y'all flame away. :)

Wow. Ignorance with self-centered ranting opinions is the opposite of what a new woodworker needs to hear when asking a relevant, pertinent question.

My advice to Glen is to remember this poster and simply skip over any comment made by him in the future. I know I sure will.

[Lee Schierer]

I would put my keeper piece between the blade and fence because that's where I would have measured for the cut. If it was the 1" dimension I would use a push stick, too, but for the 5" dimension, maybe, maybe not but probably would just out of habit. Then again, I do this as a hobby and my time is not as important as Steve's.

That's how I was taught. The piece you want is always between the fence and the blade because that is where you made your measurement. Trying to rip to a mark or measuring to get the right size cut off is much harder to do. There may be a few instances where this isn't possible but by and large the keepr should be by the fence.

I also advocate the use of feather boards and push sticks, even when ripping a 5" wide piece.

[John Thompson]

I will add one thing that has not been mentioned. You don't purchase it after-market.. you don't make it.. it doesn't come with any manufacturers saw. But.. it is as important if not more than anything that has been mentioned.

I use a spring-board left.. crown guard over.. fence right.. push sticks when I get to the tail and last 8" of stock and I rip up to 16' alone with proper supporting friction surfaces. I run an average of several thousand linear feet through ripping a month. I just sold a 3 HP a few days ago and am waiting on a 5 HP.

Am I afraid of the TS and will I take up bird-watching.. absolutely not or I would have quit doing WW at some point in the last 37 years.


But.. I do use safety devices but even by surrounding the stock with them as I do.. one area is that can't be guarded by any of them. Front and rear of the blade in the cut path... entry and exit. So... it is adamant IMO to use one of the simplest rules concerned with TS safety....


KEEP THE LANE CLEAR WHEN THE BLADE IS SPINNING...


Sarge..

[Bruce Benjamin]

Now, y'all flame away. :)

Posts #27 and #28 addressed you pretty well but they didn't mention that your logic and conclusions are seriously flawed. There are too many points to address individually and it would be pointless anyway. You sound like nothing will or can change your mind and most other people reading your 2 posts in this thread already see that they are both filled with nonsense. Maybe your posts were done in a sarcastic tone and you just forgot to include, :rolleyes: and ;). If that's the case then please let us know.

Bruce

[Kevin Arceneaux]

There is a valid point in Cody's post, it could have been worded better.

There are a lot of folks out there that get into woodworking later in life. Look at the age thread to see. Some of them have had jobs where they are not out working with their hands or around those that do. For them, it is important that when they post here that they get the information needed to use the tools safely.

It aggravates me to no end when watching shows on TV the way they do things. No guards, etc. Then Joe Weekend foes out there and hurts himself. Just a little disclaimer at the start of the show is not enough. Once they show the set-up, it is time to put the guards in place before they start cutting. If you saw extreme makeover a year or so ago, you saw the guy who shredded his hand because he took the guard of a grinder.

I think, and this is what I have done, is read through the threads. You will soon see who gives the best advice. They are well worded and very clear. Jim Becker is a great example of this.

[Greg Cole]

There is a valid point in Cody's post, it could have been worded better.

Agreed there. I think what was meant and how it's written are not quite the same. Faceless commmunication opens cans of worms "that way".
I don't know any of us here from a hole in the wall, nor do I take offense from comments from anyone I don't know personally.:rolleyes:
If you have fear of tools, when you get hurt or have some type of accident, you'll wind up with a whole bunch of "I told you so's" for yourself and most likely not learn from it. I've takena few noobs on the slopes for their first runs on skiis & I can tell you who will ski the first hour & who will be in the lodge watching & much of that is the mental road block or lack there of.
I've had an accident on a jointer, working 100% by the book per say. O lost about 1/3 of the left pinky tip, most of it decided to grow back. :rolleyes: All guards on, using push blocks, clear work area no distractions etc etc etc at the time of the injury. My mistake was one of reaction, I dropped my push block from the leading hand (as I was transferring from infeed to outfeed tables). When I reacted to grab the push block I pulled the board backwards (not sure why, other than from reacting to grab what I had dropped). The 1/10 of a second that the guard takes to swing over the cutter head was time enough for my left pinky to meet the cutterhead & then the "pork chop" guard caught my finger between the fence and the cutterhead. As you can imagine, it took about another second to get said finger out of the very bad place it was in while trying to hit the e-stop too. 5,000 RPM with 4 blades... damage is done before you feel a thing.
The working safe mind set is what's important. The risk you opt to take or operate with is yours (and your nearest n dearests'). FWIW, I was using said finger eating jointer less that 10 days later. No fear to conquer as I put my finger in harms way, harm didn't come find my pinky.
All the safety attachments & gizmo's don't really stop anything from happening, but add a layer of insulation.

BTW, for the OP my measured rips are to the right of the blade. Hold downs, feather boards and push stick..... most of the time in one combo or another.

Greg - in a gray tee shirt with rather calloused hands...LOL

[Glenn Howard]

Wow, I had no idea of the turmoil this innocent question would unleash. I've been made to feel that I must apologize for my profession and the fact that I wasn't born knowing how to use a table saw? I've had several jobs on the way to what I do now (dishwashing, cooking, unloading trailers, driving forklifts, repairing forklifts, painting, retail) all during the 15 years it took to complete my degree. Yes, I've worked behind a desk for the last 6 years, but that doesn't make me an idiot.

Quite the contrary, I believe that if you know how to read, you can learn to do just about anything. I was raised to respect tools, to use the right one for the job, and how to use my head about it when it comes to safety. To save money, I do many of my own home repairs and have learned a thing or two along the way. As this is my first table saw, oh I don't know, I thought I might do the sensible thing and learn how to use it first instead of using the trial and error approach.

Yes, avoiding the spinning blade is quite obvious. However, the physics behind what causes kickback and other such perils is not quite so obvious. Before I learned the hard way, I thought I would get the advice of those I respect as pros.

Most of you have been quite kind and helpful and I thank you for indulging me. As far as Cody, I respect your right to your opinion, but find it sad that you have so high of an opinion of yourself that you somehow feel the need to belittle someone who would simply like to learn a thing or two from you.

[Peter Quinn]

Here's a little gem from Charles Neil on TS Safety. A video on how to use a typical TS to rip thin strips safely. Charles Neil has lots of great techniques in his arsenal. A real master. Check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FullQWi2ZwM

[Tom Veatch]

I suppose it's possible to become so hung up on safety that the only comfortable existence is 50' underground in an concrete bunker with padded walls - outside an earthquake zone, of course. Every action we take carries some element of risk. The rational approach is to reduce the risk while still allowing the mission to be accomplished. Each and every one of us has a risk threshold for a given task that is comfortable for us. It doesn't behoove any of us to berate anyone else because their threshold is higher/lower than ours (no matter how stupid we may consider their threshold to be).

Now with that said, to the OP, as others have reported, the measured part of my rip cuts is almost always between the fence and the blade. Simply because it is more accurate and repeatable. There are a number of published articles that describe jigs/fixtures that allow narrow cuts to be made with an acceptable degree of safety. A search using your favorite internet search engine should turn up several references.

For me, I've found that the "Grr-Ripper" by Micro Jig, Inc. satisfies my safety threshold during rip cuts. I own two of them and am uncomfortable making rip cuts less than 4" or 5" without them.

[Chris Kennedy]

If you have a lick of common sense and know how to work, grew up knowing how to work then you will know how to avoid getting hurt without dressing up yourself and your tools with the latest safety gimmick. If you spent your entire life behind a desk and all of a sudden decided you want to buy a bunch of power equipment spinning sharp blades and cutters just so you can relieve some stress, then God help you cause the gizmos won't...not for long, anyway.

Now, y'all flame away. :)I'm sorry, folks, but I have to disagree. Maybe Cody can say that he was trying to make a point, but comments like


What I'm saying is that now-a-days, there's a bunch of soft-handed, white collar types who get into woodworking when they could previously barely change a lightbulb aren't making a point. They are designed to be antagonizing or insulting or both.

And comments to the effect of


If you spent your entire life behind a desk and all of a sudden decided you want to buy a bunch of power equipment spinning sharp blades and cutters just so you can relieve some stress, then God help you cause the gizmos won't...not for long, anyway.

Now, y'all flame away. :)belie two things: there is a direct implication that someone who has spent his professional career behind a desk is a practical idiot. Moreover, the final comment indicates he knows that he is antagonizing people.

And, as mentioned, his argument is completely flawed. By his reasoning, there would be no accidents or injuries in professional shops, but there are.

When I first read this message, I debated whether to respond at all. It is a pitch in the dirt. I found it out of line, and I thought trying to debate with such a mindset was pointless. On the other hand, I found it very insulting. It is out of line, particularly for the tenor of the Creek, and I said so. When you look at Glenn's response, a person looking for help, that is really driven home.

In my opinion, there isn't a way to package these comments as a legitimate criticism/comment/observation worded poorly. There is nothing in there about using safety equipment properly, or even thinking through what you are doing with a power tool. You have to have [sic] "grew up knowing how to work" to know how to avoid getting hurt.

There is nothing of merit in this.

And in the interest of full disclosure, I am so white-collared it isn't even funny. I am a theoretical mathematician, son of a research organic chemist, son of a blacksmith. I am the nephew of a cabinet-maker and a theoretical physicist. I guess the difference is that the way I was raised, there is no bloody distinction between being so-called white-collared and blue-collared. It is arbitrary and stupid. Anybody of knowledge and skill should be listened to and respected. _That_ is common sense. And personally, I believe that is why most of us belong to this forum.

And thus ends my rant.

Cheers,

Chris

[John Thompson]

[quote=Glenn Howard;897511]Wow, I had no idea of the turmoil this innocent question would unleash. I've been made to feel that I must apologize for my profession and the fact that I wasn't born knowing how to use a table saw? ...

No need to apologize, Glenn. Everyone has an opionion on a forum and you will generally get them. As a beginner it's your job to sift through them and either adapt one or a portion or reject it based on your own judgement. In the end it is your responsibility to make your own decision on how you proceed.

A comment that was made was just not relevant to what you asked and should not have been made in public. But... that shouldn't stop you from asking the next question if you have one.

Sarge..

[mreza Salav]

I'm sorry, folks, but I have to disagree. Maybe Cody can say that he was trying to make a point, but comments like

aren't making a point. They are designed to be antagonizing or insulting or both.

And comments to the effect of

belie two things: there is a direct implication that someone who has spent his professional career behind a desk is a practical idiot. Moreover, the final comment indicates he knows that he is antagonizing people.

And, as mentioned, his argument is completely flawed. By his reasoning, there would be no accidents or injuries in professional shops, but there are.

When I first read this message, I debated whether to respond at all. It is a pitch in the dirt. I found it out of line, and I thought trying to debate with such a mindset was pointless. On the other hand, I found it very insulting. It is out of line, particularly for the tenor of the Creek, and I said so. When you look at Glenn's response, a person looking for help, that is really driven home.

In my opinion, there isn't a way to package these comments as a legitimate criticism/comment/observation worded poorly. There is nothing in there about using safety equipment properly, or even thinking through what you are doing with a power tool. You have to have [sic] "grew up knowing how to work" to know how to avoid getting hurt.

There is nothing of merit in this.

And in the interest of full disclosure, I am so white-collared it isn't even funny. I am a theoretical mathematician, son of a research organic chemist, son of a blacksmith. I am the nephew of a cabinet-maker and a theoretical physicist. I guess the difference is that the way I was raised, there is no bloody distinction between being so-called white-collared and blue-collared. It is arbitrary and stupid. Anybody of knowledge and skill should be listened to and respected. _That_ is common sense. And personally, I believe that is why most of us belong to this forum.

And thus ends my rant.

Cheers,

Chris

Can't agree more Chris. Very well said.
It is disappointing to see how some people response to a request for help or guidance from others.

[Rich Schneider]

Glenn: One of the most practical safety videos is the one Marc Adams puts out. It covers pretty much every piece of large equipment a hobbiest would have in their shop and would be an excellent item for you to pick up. It is a pretty cheap piece of advice and you it will help to make you not only a safer, but a better woodworker in that you'll better understand how to control your machine(s) which will help you get the best cut/finish quality that is possible with it. He also wrote a bunch of safety articles for Popular Woodworking this past year, so you might look for those as well. When ripping the stock you could do it either way as far as the piece you want to keep. I almost always have my "keep" piece between the fence and blade. I saw some comments on here related to push sticks...there are a lot of commercial push sticks available, some good ones and some bad ones...I make almost all my own now and I'll try to post some pictures later on. I agree with the posts where safety is upon the operator..you can have all the guards/devices in place that come with a machine, but that is one piece of the puzzle. You can still do something that can cause an accident or injury to yourself or someone standing nearby. Plus it isn't just limited to power tools. You will likely have to use hand tools, like chisels, in your projects as well. A lot of people don't use their handtools wisely either. They use too much force, have it pointing toward themselves, and/or don't think about what happens if the wood between them and the chisel breaks off even if they didn't intend it to do so.