Difference between 107 and 120 degree hinges

[Rob Blaustein]

Apart from the obvious difference of 13 degrees, what is the practical difference between these two types of hinges? I'm bulding 4 Euro-style cabinets that will be run together side by side, and I'm using 3/4" ply. Each cabinet will have two doors and I was planning on using full overlay hinges since I will have 1 1/2" at each intersection. I'll probaby go with Blums. They will have adjustable shelves and so I was looking at the 107 or 120 degree hinges. The Blum catalogue is a bit dense and a little hard to plow through--I can't seem to figure out why one would choose 107 over 120 or vice versa. Can anyone clarify that for me?
--Rob

[Joe Jensen]

I'm not certain about those exact hinges, but in the past I tried to use a wider opening hinge and I didn't have enough clearance to the door next to it. In that application, I had a series of doors. I may have been trying to use 135 degree or more. With the wider opening hinges, the door moved to the side as it opened.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Not sure which exact model Blum you are using, but my guess is the 120's will swing out far enough for a "pull out" (aka as a tray / drawer) to clear the door. No matter which ones you choose, make a "mock up" first. This will save some headaches.

[Rick Christopherson]

It isn't really a matter of how far the hinge opens, it is of quality. I am not sure about the specific hinges you are looking at, but in most cases a hinge in the 107 degree range is nothing more than a cup and a mounting plate.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

I'll probaby go with Blums.
Defiantly go with Blum.
I made the error in judgement of using the orange borg's generic hinges - on of all things - a rental.
I make a monthly visit now to tighten the screws that work loose. It was almost weekly - but - Red Locktite added a couple of weeks.

OT - the degree of opening 107* vs 120* is for limiting the travel of the door. Close to a wall or some other obstruction, you want to use the 107*. If there's plenty of room to swing, then the 120*.

I also found this out the hard way - see above - by using 120* all around in the rental's L-shaped kitchen cabinet design. Where the cabinets come together at a right angle to form the L, the doors open too far and hit.

[Rob Blaustein]

Bruce--I think one needs to go to 170 deg if one wants the open door to not protrude (i.e. be flush with the cabinet side). Rick--I'm comparing two similar Blum hinges except one opens to 120 the other to 107. Presumably they would be of same equal quality, so my question was really why one would get 107 vs 120. For my application, it wasn't obvious but then I haven't built cabinets with these. Rich--I agree. I've had to adjust hinges on lots of cabinets and the Blums seem to hold up better than the generics.

[Jamie Buxton]

The 107 degree hinge, I believe, is just a simple pivot (like a standard knuckle hinge). The 120 degree hinge has a multi-link mechanism, not a simple pivot. The extra parts in the 120 hinge make it more expensive. In theory, the extra parts could cause more play in the hinge, but I haven't seen that to be the case. I use the 120 degree hinge as my default for eurostyle cabinets.

[Michael Panis]

Not sure which exact model Blum you are using, but my guess is the 120's will swing out far enough for a "pull out" (aka as a tray / drawer) to clear the door. No matter which ones you choose, make a "mock up" first. This will save some headaches.

Sigh...Found that out the hard way. Built a bunch of cabinets with 3 pullout shelves each, attached the doors. Everything looked and worked great until I tried to pull a shelf out and it wouldn't clear the door. Thanks for reminding me of this :rolleyes:

(But as someone else said, 120's won't do it. You need a wider opening for pullouts)

---Mike

[Jamie Buxton]

Sigh...Found that out the hard way. Built a bunch of cabinets with 3 pullout shelves each, attached the doors. Everything looked and worked great until I tried to pull a shelf out and it wouldn't clear the door. Thanks for reminding me of this :rolleyes:

(But as someone else said, 120's won't do it. You need a wider opening for pullouts)

---Mike

The usual solution for this is not wider-opening hinges. Instead, use spacers between the slides and the case on the hinge side. The hinge manufacturers even tell you how much spacing you need to add for each model of hinge.

[Mikail Khan]

Sigh...Found that out the hard way. Built a bunch of cabinets with 3 pullout shelves each, attached the doors. Everything looked and worked great until I tried to pull a shelf out and it wouldn't clear the door. Thanks for reminding me of this :rolleyes:

(But as someone else said, 120's won't do it. You need a wider opening for pullouts)

---Mike

Blum has special hinges for doors that conceal slide out shelves. They provide the necessary clearance even when they are only open 90 degrees. They are the "zero clearance 165 deg hinges".

MK

[Bruce Gray]

The big difference between the 105/120 degree hinges and the 170 degree is that the the 170's are "big and ugly". They are much more complicated, take up considerably more space inside the cabinet when the door is closed. They also cost much more. With a kitchen project that I have underway, I will use a mixture of the 120 and 170 degree hinges. Even though I don't like the looks of the wide opening hinges, there are time when one just needs that extra opening angle to give good cabinet access. In my current case, I will be using a mixture of Blum 120 degree hinges, and Grass 165 degree hinges. I chose to mix vendors so that I could have the same drilling dimensions (of the 35mm hole) for all doors. This will allow me to switch doors from 120 to 165 degree hinges (or vice versa) if that should be needed.

Bruce

[Rob Blaustein]

There has been a good amount of interesting discussion but I'm still not sure I understand why one would use a Blum 107 vs a Blum 120. No one has really specifically addressed this yet. Any takers?

[Michael Panis]

Blum has special hinges for doors that conceal slide out shelves. They provide the necessary clearance even when they are only open 90 degrees. They are the "zero clearance 165 deg hinges".

MK

Thanks! A bit too late, but the suggestion is still appreciated.

[Jay Brewer]

I'll give you my take on it Rob. I use the 120 on all my cabs. I use the 107 on end cabs that but against a wall or say a upper against a fridge cab. The benefit of the 107 is you can buy a restriction clip to 86*, this is useful when you dont want the door or the knob to hit the side of a wall or a protruding cabinet. Besides the swing, they are identical. Also check out the soft closs accessory that Blum makes for them , they work really well, no more slamming doors, hope this helps, Jay

[Rob Blaustein]

Sounds like the 120 deg ones are perhaps more commonly used and I see where they would allow one to open the doors wider and have easier access to the shelves. I'll probably go with the Blum self close 120s and might consider the Blumotion addition. When using Blumotion can you get away with fewer of those than hinges or do you always have to have one per hinge?

[Jay Brewer]

The average door only needs one Blumotion. The only time I have needed two were on large pantry doors. Jay

[Rob Blaustein]

The average door only needs one Blumotion. The only time I have needed two were on large pantry doors. Jay

Thanks Jay, you saved me lotsa money--I had in my head that you should use one per hinge, but boy that adds up fast.

[John Nesmith]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but it is right on point to my situation.

I also am trying to figure out the practical differences between the Blum 107 degree and 120 degree hinges. My application is inset doors in a frameless cabinet. I am using the excel spreadsheet planning tool from Blum's website. When I enter my criteria including 120 degree hinges, I get a required mounting plate height of 9 mm. If I only change the 120 degrees to 107 degrees, the required mounting plate height changes to 0 mm.

What is up with that? A few extra degrees of door swing, and the required mounting plate height changes from the least, to almost the most. Also, if I need a 9 mm plate, I am limited to the "two piece wing plate", but if I need a 0 mm plate, I have a lot more options. Seems very odd to me.

Another related question: If I want to use the blumotion hinge things, do I need to go with self-closing hinges? (Vs free-swinging) Seems like I would.

Thanks for the help.

[John Nesmith]

I guess I am getting ahead of things, but I have another question. These hinges will be going into a walnut entertainment console I am building. It will have 1 center door enclosing adjustable shelves for the AV components. It seems the self-closing hinges (even with the Blumotion stops) might be more appropriate for a kitchen cabinet type application, whereas the free-swinging hinges might be more appropriate for furniture.

What do you think?

[Karl Brogger]

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but it is right on point to my situation.

I also am trying to figure out the practical differences between the Blum 107 degree and 120 degree hinges. My application is inset doors in a frameless cabinet. I am using the excel spreadsheet planning tool from Blum's website. When I enter my criteria including 120 degree hinges, I get a required mounting plate height of 9 mm. If I only change the 120 degrees to 107 degrees, the required mounting plate height changes to 0 mm.

What is up with that? A few extra degrees of door swing, and the required mounting plate height changes from the least, to almost the most. Also, if I need a 9 mm plate, I am limited to the "two piece wing plate", but if I need a 0 mm plate, I have a lot more options. Seems very odd to me.

Another related question: If I want to use the blumotion hinge things, do I need to go with self-closing hinges? (Vs free-swinging) Seems like I would.

Thanks for the help.

Which hinges are you using specifically? The full crank vs half crank makes a difference. My Blum catalog doesn't show a full crank hinge for an inset application and a 120* clip top hinge. That's probably where the difference is.

For inset
If you are using a full crank hinge, and have a 1/4" pocket behind the frame, you need a 6mm plate if drilled at 22.5mm. I think, I just did this few weeks ago with a vanity, and I've got another inset kitchen going through the shop, but I'm no where near the hardware stage and haven't even started thinking about it yet. I don't do enough inset kitchens to stay current with it.


The plates I've been using range come in 0mm,3mm,6mm,9mm,18mm. Somewhere in there you should be able to find a combination of hinges and plates that work. I don't like the plate that screws onto the back of the faceframe. I'm not sure that they will hold up over time, though they are easier to use. Especially if you're smart enough to predrill the frame before putting them in,(which I usually didn't remember to do when I used them). The also demand a big pocket for mounting, so its hard to use them solely.


120* BTW, the 107* don't open enough for my tastes.

And for the folks talking about roll out trays, raise your bottom hinge up. With a 1/2" overlay I normally drill doors at 3" OC, with a ROT I raise it up to 6" OC to clear the bottom ROT. I also typically build out the interior 3/4" from the faceframe, and use the 170* hinges so they swing totally out of the way.

BTW- 107* Clip tops have a shallower cup depth.

[Karl Brogger]

I guess I am getting ahead of things, but I have another question. These hinges will be going into a walnut entertainment console I am building. It will have 1 center door enclosing adjustable shelves for the AV components. It seems the self-closing hinges (even with the Blumotion stops) might be more appropriate for a kitchen cabinet type application, whereas the free-swinging hinges might be more appropriate for furniture.

What do you think?


I don't like free swinging hinges. Feel cheap to me for some reason. I've never had a reason to buy any, except for when using the soft close feature I've thought about swapping out one hinge for a free swing to get them to slow down when closing vs putting on another attachment.

[John Nesmith]

Which hinges are you using specifically? The full crank vs half crank makes a difference. My Blum catalog doesn't show a full crank hinge for an inset application and a 120* clip top hinge. That's probably where the difference is.

For inset
If you are using a full crank hinge, and have a 1/4" pocket behind the frame, you need a 6mm plate if drilled at 22.5mm. I think, I just did this few weeks ago with a vanity, and I've got another inset kitchen going through the shop, but I'm no where near the hardware stage and haven't even started thinking about it yet. I don't do enough inset kitchens to stay current with it.


The plates I've been using range come in 0mm,3mm,6mm,9mm,18mm. Somewhere in there you should be able to find a combination of hinges and plates that work. I don't like the plate that screws onto the back of the faceframe. I'm not sure that they will hold up over time, though they are easier to use. Especially if you're smart enough to predrill the frame before putting them in,(which I usually didn't remember to do when I used them). The also demand a big pocket for mounting, so its hard to use them solely.


120* BTW, the 107* don't open enough for my tastes.

And for the folks talking about roll out trays, raise your bottom hinge up. With a 1/2" overlay I normally drill doors at 3" OC, with a ROT I raise it up to 6" OC to clear the bottom ROT. I also typically build out the interior 3/4" from the faceframe, and use the 170* hinges so they swing totally out of the way.

BTW- 107* Clip tops have a shallower cup depth.

Thanks for the info. BTW: This is a frameless cabinet.

[John Nesmith]

I don't like free swinging hinges. Feel cheap to me for some reason. I've never had a reason to buy any, except for when using the soft close feature I've thought about swapping out one hinge for a free swing to get them to slow down when closing vs putting on another attachment.

Interesting. I thought only 1 blumotion contraption was needed per door. However, I could see where 2 self-closing hinges could cause the door to snap closed pretty strongly, so maybe 2 would normally be required.

[Karl Brogger]

Interesting. I thought only 1 blumotion contraption was needed per door. However, I could see where 2 self-closing hinges could cause the door to snap closed pretty strongly, so maybe 2 would normally be required.

Depends on the door. Skinny doors often times need two. Doors with three hinges almost always need two. Sometimes they just shut too quickly with one, and not quick enough with two.

[Karl Brogger]

Thanks for the info. BTW: This is a frameless cabinet.

Then its probably just the difference from a half cranked hinge, to the full cranked.

[John Nesmith]

Can you explain the difference between a "half-crank" and a "full-crank"? What does crank mean in this context?

Thanks.

[Karl Brogger]

Can you explain the difference between a "half-crank" and a "full-crank"? What does crank mean in this context?

Thanks.

Basically the offset of where the hinge plate mounts to the center of the cup.
-A straight hinge the plate mount is closer to the center of the door. (I drill at 22.5, use a straight hinge, and a 3mm plate for a 1/2" overlay) With a zero plate you can get to 11/16" overlay, but it requires a stamped plate, and they're ugly and huge compared to the cast plates.
-Half crank hinges move the plate 9.5mm closer to the edge of the door. (Good for small overlays, or with a thick plate, for inset applications)
A full crank, (if I'm reading the tables correctly), moves the hinge another 3mm closer to the edge. Its probably another 9mm, and I'm missing something. I have trouble wrapping my head around going from overlay to inset, and those overlay/reveal tables are confusing to me.

Like I said, my catalog doesn't list a half crank for the 107* in an inset application, but it does for a 120* application..

[John Nesmith]

Thanks Karl