Preference: Sliding Compound Saw vs. Chop Saw

[Don Brubaker]

I have a DeWalt 12" Sliding Compound Saw, but it takes up "depth" on any kind of table / workbench and am considering switching to a non-sliding one (with a laser of course!). The best solution I suppose would be the new Festool, but does anyone have a spare $1200 plus they could "give" me?! Anyway, seems like most workshops only have the fixed compound chop saw and NOT the sliding compound. A Radial saw will NEVER be in my shop!!!, so please don't suggest! They are death traps! Hopefully this won't cause a tangential discussion! Thanks.

[Frank Snyder]

Have you considered the Hitachi C12LSH? It's a 12" SCMS that operates like the Kapex does so you can park it against the wall. It also has a laser, digital readout and decent dust collection. It's also about 1/3 the cost of the Kapex.

[Eddie Watkins]

I have the 10" Makita slider and a 10" Dewalt non-slider. I bought the Dewalt 703 to take to job sites because it was lighter and less apt to get out of adjustment by being moved. It does a good job. 99% of my cuts do not require a slider but for the other 1% I'm glad I have it. It had never accurred to me to mount the Dewalt in the shop so I could save space and just use the slider when I needed the extra depth of cut. I may try that.

[Wayne Cannon]

I keep looking at "upgrading" my 12" compound miter (chop) saw to a 10" slider, but every time I compare the play in the slider compared with a chop saw, I decide to stick with my non-slider.

It has been very rare that I've needed the additional width-of-cut that the slider provided (if necessary, I gain about an extra inch by raising the work up off the table with a spacer -- i.e., closer to the widest portion of the blade at its center).

If you get a chop saw, consider these factors:


one that tilts both left and right, and
one with a belt or angled drive to get the motor out of the way for greater depth of cut

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,

every time I compare the play in the slider compared with a chop saw, I decide to stick with my non-slider.

Like Wayne, I noticed quite a bit of play in the sliders I looked at so I decided to go with a non slider, no frills DeWalt 10" for the shop-chop saw.
FWIW - I do have an 8 1/2" slider - a low end Workforce.
It's my rough in - on the job site - won't shed too many tears if it grows legs - saw.
It does OK on most things with a decent blade, but it's got a lot of play in it.

[Ron Dunn]

I wouldn't rush into buying a Festool Kapex at the moment ... there is a lot of unhappiness in their forums about problems with this tool.

[Peter Quinn]

I work in a cabinet shop which has no SCMS, just a 12" Makita CMS. Of course there is an 11' panel saw with a 14" blade about 10 feet from the chop saw, but still we get by without a SCMS!:D

Seriously, it depends on how you like to work, what you make mostly, and what other methods you have available. No reason you must have a slider except as determined by you.

Oh, about that RAS is death trap comment. Shame on you for displaying your ignorance with such bravado. There are many machines that bare the monicker RAS which would function better as boat anchors, but there is nothing implicitly more dangerous about a GOOD WELL TUNED QUALITY RAS than any other wood cutting machine.

It will cost you several thousand dollars to get a RAS as good as mine today, and for most that is simply not worth it. I got mine free, so it was worth it to me. Also it helps to know how to use one, and that is more difficult information to acquire these days too. I wouldn't recommend a RAS in this day and age for home use as a necessity, but it would be hard for me to work w/o mine, and no SCMS or chop box can do what my RAS can. It's like comparing apples to Sherman Tanks.

[Chris Kennedy]

I have a non-sliding chop saw -- Ryobi, 10 inch. I bought it at the time because it was I could afford, and I like it. It does what is supposed to. I had always figured that I would eventually upgrade to a sliding miter saw.

I have changed my mind. I bought a table saw, and I use it for anything that cannot be crosscut using my miter saw. Now, if the material is really long and really deep, it can be difficult without a sled. But with the size of my shop, it would be difficult with a sliding miter as well.

The upshot is this -- the amount of money for a good sliding miter is a long way to a good hybrid saw. If you have the space, I would consider holding off, saving your money, and investing in a table saw and keeping your chop saw. There is a lot of added versatility if you have the space (which, of course, is a huge issue).

Cheers,

Chris

[Mike Henderson]

I have a 12" Bosch that I bought because I didn't have room for a slider (counter space not deep enough). I've been happy with it. I rarely run into anything where I wish I had more cut.

Mike

[Ron Dunn]

This is my SCMS:

http://thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/nobex_champion_mitre_saw.jpg

USD155 with Japanese tooth blade.

Works really well. Portable. Environmentally friendly. Neighbour-friendly at 1am. Safe.

[Frank Snyder]

Ron - Is that the Nobex or the Jorgensen?

[Ron Dunn]

Frank, it is the Nobex Champion.

I have its little brother - an older Nobex Proman - but the combination of bigger stock size and Japanese blade availability drove the upgrade.

[Neal Clayton]

This is my SCMS:

http://thebestthings.com/newtools/graphics/nobex_champion_mitre_saw.jpg

USD155 with Japanese tooth blade.

Works really well. Portable. Environmentally friendly. Neighbour-friendly at 1am. Safe.

should tell my neighbor about those. i hear that guy over there sawing stuff at midnight on some days. gotta give it to him, he's a trooper ;). i've usually seen enough sawdust by 3 or 4 pm most days.

[Robert Dunaway]

I have the 12" DeWalt non-slider.

I cut a lot of crown on my chop saw. I remember reading that the sliders don't have that gnats...uh...hiney accuracy that I need.

For the rest of my projects, I've never needed anything bigger. I've had to stick a board under the piece to get that extra skoosh of cut length, but that's about it.

[Randal Stevenson]

Since your not comfortable with a radial arm saw (bad ones, verses comfort level and experience), you have limited room (and no budget for Kapex, or? Hitachi), your already aiming yourself toward a Dual CMS.

Sounds like you need a PUSH to build some table saw sleds, for your wider boards.

[John Thompson]

I had a Hitachi 10" SCMS and sold it to get a Hitachi 12 SCMS. The newer 12" Hitachi does take up less space the way they made the sliding bars partially in the machine. I also ran into many occsions I needed a 4" depth of cut instead of 3". I sold a CMS to get the first Hitachi SCMS and for me that was a brillant move.

The reason is I do all cross-cutting on a SCMS up to 16'. I built a mobile base cabinet and added the top of a Wolfcraft portable miter stand to the top of the cabinet. Closed it takes 4' from side to side. When I extend it I can cross-cut up to 16' with a 4" depth. I can also cross-cut up to 24" wide by flipping a panel over.

My SCMS does every task from sizing down rough or S2 lumber coming in the shop from the supplier to the delicate finish cross-cuts. So.. for me the decision would be a no brainer (and I said for me) as the newer style Hitachi sliding bars take up not very much more room than a standard CMS.

Would I trade up to a Kapex and pay the difference? ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha.. Does that answer that question? :)

Sarge..

[Don Brubaker]

I wouldn't rush into buying a Festool Kapex at the moment ... there is a lot of unhappiness in their forums about problems with this tool.
Not to mention the ridiculous price!

[Don Brubaker]

Since your not comfortable with a radial arm saw (bad ones, verses comfort level and experience), you have limited room (and no budget for Kapex, or? Hitachi), your already aiming yourself toward a Dual CMS.

Sounds like you need a PUSH to build some table saw sleds, for your wider boards.
Don't need a push on the table saw sleds ....... discovered them and using more and more, but just can't see not having a miter saw. I would love to match Norm's miter saw station someday!

[Don Brubaker]

I work in a cabinet shop which has no SCMS, just a 12" Makita CMS. Of course there is an 11' panel saw with a 14" blade about 10 feet from the chop saw, but still we get by without a SCMS!:D

Seriously, it depends on how you like to work, what you make mostly, and what other methods you have available. No reason you must have a slider except as determined by you.

Oh, about that RAS is death trap comment. Shame on you for displaying your ignorance with such bravado. There are many machines that bare the monicker RAS which would function better as boat anchors, but there is nothing implicitly more dangerous about a GOOD WELL TUNED QUALITY RAS than any other wood cutting machine.

It will cost you several thousand dollars to get a RAS as good as mine today, and for most that is simply not worth it. I got mine free, so it was worth it to me. Also it helps to know how to use one, and that is more difficult information to acquire these days too. I wouldn't recommend a RAS in this day and age for home use as a necessity, but it would be hard for me to work w/o mine, and no SCMS or chop box can do what my RAS can. It's like comparing apples to Sherman Tanks.
I'm going to disagree with you on the "non-death trapedness" of RAS's ....... experienced, heard stories, seen people's results ...... I would argue that there just really is no need for an RAS that any other machine couldn't do better ..... and safer.
This really is a been there done that. While we all have our favorites, I would find this one hard for anyone to realistically claim.

[Cary Swoveland]

I have a 12" Dewalt CMS that generally meets my needs. I got it about three years ago. It's up against a wall, so my choices were limited. I did consider an Hitachi slider (at the time, the only slider that would work against a wall) , but went with a 12" CMS, and chose a Dewalt. There are a couple of situations where I wish I had a slider instead. Obviously, one is when I'd like to cut a board that's a bit too wide for the CMS. Secondly, it can take awhile to cut through a wide, dense hardwood. I assume that's because so many carbide tips are in contact with the wood at the same time. Considering how much faster it would be cross-cut the same board on my table saw, I'm guessing it also would be faster with a slider. Can anyone confirm or contest that?

Cary

[Cary Swoveland]

...If you get a chop saw, consider these factors:


one that tilts both left and right, and
one with a belt or angled drive to get the motor out of the way for greater depth of cut


I agree with Wayne on this, and would point out that these two attributes come as a package: the only reason manufacturers incur the added expense of moving the motor up and back, and adding gears or belts and pulleys, is to allow bevels to be done both ways. Even if you have no plans to make use of the double-bevel feature, it's nice to have the motor up and out of the way. Visibility is better and it may be a little quieter.

Cary

[Mike Heidrick]

I have been cutting treated 2X6s on a Hitachi C12LSH this week for a picnic table. It is a great saw. Keep an eye out on amazon - occassionally they go for $450-$490. Shipping a heavy SCMS (Hitachi does not pack these well - just some carboard supports in a double walled carboard box) is a gamble but worth it. I saw it for $679 at lowes.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I tried that swap back to a CMS...lasted four weeks. I couldn't give up the versatility.

[Narayan Nayar]

I have to say--I had that Hitachi 12" SCMS and I really didn't like it. Returned it in 3 days. It's probably great for construction but has too much play for any kind of furnituremaking.

Before the Hitachi I had a 10" Dewalt CMS. After the Hitachi, I went with a Makita 10" SCMS. The Makita is a great saw.

I recently got a Kapex, though, so the Makita will soon be up for sale.

[John Thompson]

"I have to say--I had that Hitachi 12" SCMS and I really didn't like it. Returned it in 3 days. It's probably great for construction but has too much play for any kind of furnituremaking".. Narayan N.


***

I and a few others will probably dis-agree, Narayan. I have been using Hitachi to do all cross-cutting and angles in my shop for 6 years. I'm in the shop around 6-10 hours a day building furniture (I don't do construction) and have had no issues with play or anything else really.

Sorry you got one with play that couldn't be adjusted as it's a geat saw just like the Makita IMO as I have used them also.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I have the Hitatchi 10" slider right now and it's the best slider I have ever owned including Delta, DW & the Makita. Sounds like you got a Friday build....it can happen to any maker. There's no slop in mine and it has a much better miter detent system than the Makita.

[Narayan Nayar]

I'm fairly sure many will disagree with my statement--a lot of people have and like the Hitachi. I didn't find it satisfactory, but I did like (and considered) the 10" Hitachi.

For me the 12" Hitachi required me to be too mindful of how much lateral pressure I was putting on the rails. Even a minimal amount would cause some flex and on the one project I did with it, I couldn't trust it.

But to each their own.

[Chuck Tringo]

I had a cheapo GMC 10 inch slider that I donated to Habitat for humanity...it was ok for construction grade, but the fence was bent and I could never get it square. I now have a 12 inch hitachi non slider and I like it alot. I am looking hard at the new Milwaukee 12 inch slider, but want to hear/see some more reviews before I spend that much, particularly in the Dust Collection area when connected to a Vac.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Can't blame you for that....side pressure slop can kill a cut.

I sure did gander at that new Milwaukee too. Even though I don't care for the parent company, that's a nice saw...light years ahead of the other slider they sell.