Figuring out proportions...?

[Ryan Sparreboom]

Is there a golden rule when it comes to figuring out the proportions that should be used for such things as table parts?
I'm going to build a kitchen side table for a friend, out of maple, and he wants a modern look.
I'm keeping it very simple and the required dimensions I have so far are 18" x 18" top, and 35 7/8" total height. What I'm wondering about is how to decide on the thickness of the legs, and height of the apron. It's just a very simple design with straight legs, apron mortised to the legs, top attached to the apron with table top clips like this: http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=40146&cat=3,43586,43588&ap=1 (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=2&p=40146&cat=3,43586,43588&ap=1)

and a rail between each leg for a footrest (7/8") thick square.

I was thinking 2 1/4" square legs and about a 3 1/4" apron if the top is 1" thick?
Does that sound about right?

Thanks

[John Schreiber]

A difficult question which has no easy answer that I know of.

The approach I take is to look at lots and lots of similar furniture in different styles and try to get a feeling for what works and what style you want. At that point, the safest approach is to copy something that already exists. There's very little which is truly new in woodworking so it's likely that what you want to make already exists.

If you are of a more independent mind, like me, start sketching your own ideas. I use SketchUp to get a feel for shapes and proportions. It's also not a bad idea to post plans or drawings here looking for feedback.

Then dummy something up out of cardboard or cheap wood and look at it for a while in a variety of settings. Make modifications to your design and when you are satisfied, start cutting wood.

[Glenn Clabo]

What John said and one of the best books I have is all about proportions...it's more than worth the price.


Geometry of Design: Studies in Proportion and Composition (Paperback)
by Kimberly Elam (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Kimberly%20Elam) (Author) "Within the context of the man-made environment and the natural world there is a documented human cognitive preference for golden section proportions throughout recorded history..." (more (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1568982496/ref=sib_fs_top?ie=UTF8&p=S008&checkSum=5PYnw7TAOaWkzKZoUoyqn%2FB5cx0RT8GNe2CRRrC 8Zno%3D#reader-link))

[glenn bradley]

Phi - http://goldennumber.net/

[Greg Sznajdruk]

Lee Valley has a Golen Rule Ration ruler or just use teh ration included in the description.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=57625&cat=1,43513

Greg

[Ryan Sparreboom]

Thanks guys! Phi is what I was looking for. Do many of you use it on a regular basis for your designs? Or do you just go with "what looks good"?

Thanks

[Greg Cole]

You'll find the Golden Rule aka Phi is very easy on the eyes in general.
It's a natural balance, nothing sticks out or jumps or really catches your eye IMO.
Play around with it some and it's easy to see why it's been around for "awhile" now....;)

Greg

[Chris Kennedy]

\phi is always a good starting point: \frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2} to be precise.

Lee Valley's \phi rulers are good to use (I have a set -- they're pretty cool, but just about anything from Veritas is guaranteed to be cool).

On the other hand, there is an easy way to approximate \phi: use Fibonacci numbers. If you are not familiar with the Fibonacci numbers, they are the sequence:

1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89 . . .

and the list goes on, with the next number being generated by adding the previous two. So, the next number is 144 = 55+89, and so forth.

There is an intrinsic relation between \phi and the Fibonacci numbers, F_n. Specifically, \phi is approximately the ratio of successive Fibonacci numbers. So, if you want the ratio to between two sides to be close to \phi, and one side is of length 5, make the other side length 8 for a ratio of 1.6, whereas \phi is closer to 1.618 . . . . The larger the Fibonacci numbers you use, the closer you get to \phi.

If you want more on this, let me know and I'll type something up.

Cheers,

Chris

[Mike Conley]

How to Proportion Projects Pleasing to the Eye

Video:
This video will help you learn how to use a Fibonacci Gauge to proportion projects that are pleasing to the eye, Let's watch!

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid979295690/bclid1339217286/bctid979196099

[Larry James]

2 helpful guides on the FWW web site:

A Guide to Good Design
Pleasing proportions borrowed from nature by Graham Blackburn
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011168048.pdf

All About Furniture Design
by Matt Berger

You may need an on-line membership to read and/or download. About $15 if you subscribe to FWW magazine and worth it.

Larry

[glenn bradley]

Thanks guys! Phi is what I was looking for. Do many of you use it on a regular basis for your designs? Or do you just go with "what looks good"?

Thanks

I'm one of those handicapped folks who knows what looks good when he sees it but has trouble getting there. Sketchup has been a real help with this. My recent project uses the 1.618 ratios for a few dimensions.

[Steve Schoene]

Chippendale The Gentleman and Cabinet Maker's Director asnd other sources have the proportions of the classical orders of columns. Table legs are columns, the rails are the Frieze at the top of the columns. But that usually doesn't work out really well, but simple modifications, such as halving the modulous for the legs makes things work. Yes, these are classical proportions from the century before and after the change from BC to AC, but they heavily enfluenced the 18th century cabinet makers, and lots and lots of architecture, so even with very modern detailing proportions based on the classical order tend to "look right".

[Mark Hulette]

I'm one of those handicapped folks who knows what looks good when he sees it but has trouble getting there. Sketchup has been a real help with this. My recent project uses the 1.618 ratios for a few dimensions.

Me, too, Glenn. The little automatic Golden Ratio function in Sketchup is really cool and handy, too!!

[Harry Hagan]

Mark,

How do you access the "Golden Ratio function in Sketchup" ?

[Mark Hulette]

Mark,

How do you access the "Golden Ratio function in Sketchup" ?

Harry, it's just "in there"!! The cool thing is you don't have to do anything except use the rectangle tool and as you're drawing you'll get a little message that says 'Golden Section' and a dashed diagonal line will automatically go from the longest corner to it's opposite.

Sketchup is an amazing tool, especially for or in spite of the price!!:D