LED T8 - replaces flourescent tubes - YIKE$$$$$

[Mitchell Andrus]

In quantity the 48" model is only $54.95.

http://www.ledliquidatorsinc.com/led_fluorescent_lights.php?gclid=CMCS6tj-0JQCFQKcFQodw2H-kw


Is this where we're heading? I know we're all gonna need to sacrifice to clean up the planet, but..... HOLY COW!!!!


I'll need a better deal to consider buying these bad boys.


http://www.ledliquidatorsinc.com/images/T8_1.jpg

[Todd Bin]

These are expensive, but they will last a lifetime. You should never have to replace a "bulb".

[Jerome Hanby]

Assuming: you get enough people together to get that volume discount, that you don't accidentally break one, and their published specs are pretty close to the truth; then that price might not be too bad. It will last longer than 5 normal bulbs, so that puts the comparative price down to about $10.00. Add to that you don't have to change bulbs 5 or more times, don't have to monkey around with ballasts/starters, and don't have the cold weather issues (I'm assuming that. I didn't read it in their description, but there is no reason a solid state device would have problems with temps encountered inside in the USA).

I need more light in my shop right now, but even just replacing what I currently have, it would cost over $300 to use those lights. More like $700 if I added the lights I really need. That's a big ouch. Kinda hard to look at the big picture when the same money could get me a good used cabinet TS.

I'd sure like to hear form someone using them in the shop. Most of the LED lamps I've seen are pretty directional and more suited to spot lighting than general illumination.


In quantity the 48" model is only $54.95.

http://www.ledliquidatorsinc.com/led_fluorescent_lights.php?gclid=CMCS6tj-0JQCFQKcFQodw2H-kw


Is this where we're heading? I know we're all gonna need to sacrifice to clean up the planet, but..... HOLY COW!!!!


I'll need a better deal to consider buying these bad boys.


http://www.ledliquidatorsinc.com/images/T8_1.jpg

[Mitchell Andrus]

Won't be long before the fixture with bulbs shows up at the borg for $79.95. Eliminating the ballast cuts the cost considerably.

[Brian W Evans]

I read an article (popular science?) a while back comparing fluorescents and LEDs. It cited the directional nature of LED lights as one of their main drawbacks. It also said that LEDs draw more power than fluorescents. They're still WAY more efficient than incandescent bulbs, but not as energy efficient as fluorescents. The manufacturers claim that LEDs will last 100,000 hours, though. I have lots of fluorescents and they don't last anywhere near that long.

[Paul Johnstone]

There's a guy on ebay selling something similiar for $30. I can't get to ebay from work, but if you search on LED aquarium light, you will see it.
I bought 3 4 footers from him. On his, the cord runs directly into the plastic tube, and there's no reflector/fixture (he supplies clips to hold the strips..

If he can sell them for $30 now, I imagine the price of these things is going to drop considerably over the next year..

[Greg Hines, MD]

Not to be contrary, but when the Mythbusters tried out various light bulbs, from the traditional incandescent, compact fluorescent, and LED varieties, while they generally were more efficient, and would probably last longer if you just leave them on, they did not last 5 times as long as even a regular bulb when you are switching them off and on.

Doc

[Wilbur Pan]

I'm as big of a tree hugger as you'll find. Even so, I think that the main drawback of these bulbs is that the rated light output is 1200 lumens, as opposed to a typical T8 fluorescent that puts out a conservative 2500 lumens, which means that you'll have to install two of these LED bulbs for every fluorescent that you have. That's also twice the wattage needed, which means that the power consumption would be 30 watts, which puts you right into T8 4 foot fluorescent territory.

There is a better performing LED fluorescent here (http://www.everled.com/everled-tr/EverLED-TR.pdf). It puts out 3100 lumens at 40 watts a bulb, and has a claimed 10 year lifespan. For those of us with cold basement workshops, these bulbs apparently put out more light at cold temperatures than a fluorescent. Unfortunately, the cost is $150 a bulb. Hopefully the costs will drop as the technology gets developed.

[Dennis Lopeman]

I actually use these as my under cupboard lights in my kitchen. However, they are much less light - only about 10 or 15 LEDs per strip - 3 strips...

I like them. they don't put off too much light though. I'm waiting for the OLED (organic LED) to hit the mass market... more efficient and more light.

One of my strips died (they daisey chain together)... It seems to be over heating or something... I'm thinking some capacitor or something went bad... that would be why they don't last forever, too...

I didn't know about the myth busters and keeping the light always on... I'll have to remember that - thanks

[Dennis Lopeman]

oh yeah - I got mine off the discount rack and the Blue BORG... otherwise they were too expensive...

[Dave Sabo]

I didn't know about the myth busters and keeping the light always on... I'll have to remember that - thanks[/quote]


Dennis - their conclusin was actually to turn the light off because you pay for electricity when it's running. Even though there is a consumption "spike" when a light is turned on it is still 100's of times less than the energy used in 1 minute of operation.

[Greg Cole]

I hear ya, I looked at the cost of dimmable CFL's and almost puked!
LED's are great for alot of things, so long as ya don't have to buy a bunch at a time.

Cheers.
Greg

[Will Blick]

BEWARE..... I have purchased a lot of LED lights, and the lumen ratings IMO can be off by a factor of 2x.... I think its false advertising, not variance in testing.

Combined this with the fact their nominal ratings are only half of what you are replacing, you often need 4x more LED vs. what you are replacing. There is a good reason LED's are not mainstream yet... as mentioned above, LED's are very high eff. vs. incandescent, but not vs. highly eff. fluorescents.

[Dewey Torres]

Most of the LEDs I have seen seem to have this light w/ an irritating blue color to them. Like the LED lights they put in these solar low voltage lights to illuminate your landscape.
I don't know about you all, but if I had the lights in my shop that color, it would drive me batty!

[Josiah Bartlett]

LED lights are good for dimmable applications, but I wouldn't use them for general lighting just yet. I think that the overall environmental impact per lumen is lower in fluorescent tubes than in LED's at this point.

LED's are great in applications where you can't replace the bulb or you need to run off batteries, like in LCD backlights. Backlights used to be CCFL (cold cathode fluorescent), which require a 3kV power supply. CCFL's fade over time, and for most displays LED's last longer.

LED's are also good for indicator lights or things that turn off and on rapidly, since they suffer few ill effects turning on and off (unless they are packed so tightly that thermal stress is not managed).

However, for general lighting I would still go fluorescent. You get better color spectrum choices.

[Jacob Reverb]

I like buying the cheapie fluorescent shop light fixtures that you have to replace every 6 hours.

It's one of my vices. :cool:

[Dave Stuve]

I know some folks are having sticker shock, but my reaction is 'wow, those are getting cheaper!' I did a large LED project 3-4 years ago and was spending a few bucks each for superbright LEDs in quantity, and those tubes have decent sounding LEDs - 150 for only $50? If only cherry lumber came down in price like that we'd be paying 10 cents a board foot for the good stuff now.

I bet in a couple more years it will be a no brainer to buy one....

Dave

[Joe Jensen]

From reading this thread, it sounds like the lumens / watt are not really better than T8 florescent, so why use LED now? I could see it maybe for explosion proof applications, or where a broken bulb woud be a disaster.

I have 36 four foot bulbs in my 3 car garage, so it will be a LONG time before I make a switch.

[Dewey Torres]

I have 36 four foot bulbs in my 3 car garage, so it will be a LONG time before I make a switch.

And Joe said... "let there be light"... and there was light!

Man that's twice what I have and my place is lit up like a baseball stadium!

[John Sanford]

From reading this thread, it sounds like the lumens / watt are not really better than T8 florescent, so why use LED now? I could see it maybe for explosion proof applications, or where a broken bulb woud be a disaster.

I have 36 four foot bulbs in my 3 car garage, so it will be a LONG time before I make a switch.

Assume for sake of argument that the labor (including overhead, G&A, benefits, etc) of changing out each of those bulbs is $4, and you'll have to change each of them 4 times during the lifetime of the LED "bulbs". All of the sudden, the LEDs start to make sense.

I use the bulb changing labor cost as a consideration because my best friend during high school spent one entire summer working as part of a 2 man team changing the 8' bulbs at a large discount department store. For the amateur woodworker's shop, it may not make economic sense yet because we don't calculate our labor, and the time it takes us to change the bulbs will likely be much less. For the small professional shop, it may make sense to replace their flourescents as they burn out, assuming that all technical performance characteristics (lumens, color balance, light distribution, etc) are similar. For the large professional shop with high ceilings, it starts to make a lot of sense, just as it does for large retailers, office complexes, etc. Avoiding the disruption of changing bulbs alone can make it worthwhile for some.

There has been a lot of progress made in LED lighting, and more is coming down the pike. I tend to believe that if it were simply a market driven evolution, rather than pronouncements from our lords and masters in the District of Columbia, LEDs would replace incandescents before CFL's manage to do so. Instead, we'll see something of a race, with CFLs winning the replacement race only to be trampled by LEDs. LEDs have already virtually eliminated incandescent bulbs from new production model railroading, are pushing incandescents out of the flashlight markets, out of the vehicular signal/marker lights market, Christmas lights, etc.

[Jason Beam]

And Joe said... "let there be light"... and there was light!

Man that's twice what I have and my place is lit up like a baseball stadium!



I know!! I thought the 20 bulbs i have in my 2-car was a bit much ... 36?? jebus!

[Bruce Page]

I have 36 four foot bulbs in my 3 car garage, so it will be a LONG time before I make a switch.

32 Sylvania 48” “Sunstick” bulbs lighting up my 2-car garage shop. The Sunstick is the best florescent bulb that I have run across.

[Chris Parks]

I will say it straight up, I hate flourescant lights and their fixtures with a passion. As far as I am concerned they require way too much maintenance both in the fittings themselves, the tubes go dim and the starters are a pain and if you have a lot of them and they are high up it is a nightmare when they start to get old. I replaced all mine with half the number of compact flourescant BULBS and couldn't be happier. The light is excellant, the cost was only slightly more than replacing two tubes in the old fittings and they have none of the drawbacks of tubes and their fittings. They also draw about 1/4 the current to run them which is a bonus.

[Gary Lange]

What the heck its only $1500.00 to get these for my shop. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Rick Levine]

I have 24 four foot T8 tubes in my shop. I paid about $80 for a case a couple of years ago and haven't replaced one yet. At 0ver $1300 for new LED tubes I think I'll stick with fluorescents.

[Craig Hemsath]

Don't forget one added benefit of LED's is you eliminate any chance of breathing mercury vapors that could happen from fluorescents.

[Paul Johnstone]

I'm as big of a tree hugger as you'll find. Even so, I think that the main drawback of these bulbs is that the rated light output is 1200 lumens, as opposed to a typical T8 fluorescent that puts out a conservative 2500 lumens,

That is a great point. They are good for some applications, but not all.
For a workshop, where you want max light.. no.

One downside of the T8 Flourecent lights though is that they dim with age. After 6 months, they are considerably dimmer, and it only gets worse as they age. I haven't run the LEDs long enough to see if the same happens to them.

[Dennis Peacock]

Yea, I'd say those are a bit on the expensive side. I'll keep using standard bulbs until I find a better way to light my shop. :)

[Chris Parks]

Yea, I'd say those are a bit on the expensive side. I'll keep using standard bulbs until I find a better way to light my shop. :)

Don't you guys have these in the US? They are becoming very popular in Australia and far better than tube type flouros.

http://www.todae.com.au/comersus2/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory= 62

[Mitchell Andrus]

Don't you guys have these in the US? They are becoming very popular in Australia and far better than tube type flouros.



Yep, I use them all over the place. They are tube-type flouros, just all balled up.

[John Sanford]

Don't you guys have these in the US? They are becoming very popular in Australia and far better than tube type flouros.

http://www.todae.com.au/comersus2/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory= 62

Hereabouts we generally refer to those as "CFLs", i.e. Compact Flourescent Lights.